Jobs and Voting...

[wolfy098]

Yesterday I read a thread on completing a test for the right to vote...
So I thought what if....

that was my FIRST mistake

Then I thought that maybe Intelligence wasn't the problem SO

to vote you must be

In work,
Searching for work
Unemployed but not on the dole
a carer or doing a similar service
edit: students
people with injurys or defects making work impossible

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

One question:

Why?

 

[Legion]

No. The first mistake was trying to limit who can and cannot vote in a country based upon freedom of speech.

While I agree stupid people shouldn't have certain rights in principle (to raise kids for example), in practice it is completely unethical and impossible to enforce, the same goes for voting.

How can you prove that an unemployed person is looking for work? Unless you follow them around all day it isn't possible.

One question:

Why?

There was a post based around how stupid people who have no idea about politics or American history have the right to vote and therefore mess up the voting system because they don't do so without knowing anything about who they are voting for.

Wolfy is trying to find a better solution.

 

[fix-the-spade]

No, no, NO. Everyone gets a vote, the 18 age limit is largely arbitrary to stop parents forcing a vote upon their kids.

You're basically removing people who've ended up out of work for an extended period of time. Which is fine except, looking around right now you might have noticed a little to do with the banks lending money that didn't exist to other banks.

That's left a lot of people suddenly without work through no fault of their own, a good percentage of those will not have found new work yet, so they'll be on the dole. Income support (the dole) is £50 a week, it's hardly luxury living and your system is discriminating against people who may have no other option at the moment.

What about people who can't work, you can be on income support if you're disabled, sick or injured to the extent you are unable to work, be it short term or permanent. What about young parents? One of them won't be working or looking for work, does that mean s/he doesn't get a vote?

They have just as much right to the vote as anyone else, probably more since the world's governments refusal to kick banks into touch has left them unemployed.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

One question:

Why?

There was a post based around how stupid people who have no idea about politics or American history have the right to vote and therefore mess up the voting system because they don't do so without knowing anything about who they are voting for.

Wolfy is trying to find a better solution.

I know that, but I'm trying to figure out why everybody now seems to be looking for ways to diminish the voting pool.

The system is fine as it is. If you're over 18 and are a legal resident in your country, you should be able to vote. That's all there is to it. No stupid fucking tests or any other dumb pre-requisits.

 

[LongAndShort]

I do believe that voting should be compulsory for all citizens. Just my thoughts on the matter. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I just think its the best way to make democracy work.

 

[Legion]

One question:

Why?

There was a post based around how stupid people who have no idea about politics or American history have the right to vote and therefore mess up the voting system because they don't do so without knowing anything about who they are voting for.

Wolfy is trying to find a better solution.

I know that, but I'm trying to figure out why everybody now seems to be looking for ways to diminish the voting pool.

The system is fine as it is. If you're over 18 and are a legal resident in your country, you should be able to vote. That's all there is to it. No stupid fucking tests or any other dumb pre-requisits.

*shrugs* Apparently because facism is coming back into fashion. No, I did not intend any pun or quasi-pun there.

 

[Gaderael]

Your stipulations render your idea useless, as anyone can claim that they are looking for work. Just print a couple of resumes and BAM! look at me, I'm looking for work!

As for those being on the dole. What would you say to people in a recession where the have to go on social assistance because they are unable to claim Employment Insurance while they are searching for a job. Would you take away their vote because of something they couldn't control?

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Personally, I feel someone's vote should be worth more if the show that they understand politics and what each party stands for, rather than just the "I vote torries 'cause my folks do" or "I vote republican 'cause a hate abortions and gays".
People should also have the choice of voting in elections OR big brother, not both.

 

[LongAndShort]

I do believe that voting should be compulsory for all citizens. Just my thoughts on the matter. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I just think its the best way to make democracy work.

But that is a violation of democracy... You can not force democracy on people. By taking away their right not to vote you destroy the very principle of the thing.
Same as trying to force democracy on the middle east. If they do not willingly choose it then it is a waste of time.

I know what your saying, but I'm to drunk to argue my point (I'm honest to god surprised that I'm able to type this out so well. Thank God for spell check). I'll just say this, if we don't get people to vote, than the only people who do are those with soap-box complexes or lobbies. All people have to have a say in how they are governed, and besides, compulsory voting could simply be a fine if they don't. Think of it less as forcing people to vote and more as giving them incentive to vote. They still may choose not to.

 

[LongAndShort]

I know what your saying, but I'm to drunk to argue my point (I'm honest to god surprised that I'm able to type this out so well. Thank God for spell check). I'll just say this, if we don't get people to vote, than the only people who do are those with soap-box complexes or lobbies. All people have to have a say in how they are governed, and besides, compulsory voting could simply be a fine if they don't. Think of it less as forcing people to vote and more as giving them incentive to vote. They still may choose not to.

No, all people have to have the option of having a say in how they are governed. I refuse to vote because I do not agree with any of the choices given to me. I believe they are all shit but as there is no "Fuck them all" option I withhold my vote. That is how I express my say in the government.
Anyway why should people be fined? That is still punishing them. As I said, you can not force it on people. Why should they have to fork over $$ that they earned and paid taxes on when they have done nothing wrong?

Fair enough. Just don't ***** whenever the elected government does something you don't like or has a negative effect on you.

 

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm inclined to agree with Avykins about how fining people would be punishing them. Apart from people feeling as though it doesn't matter who they vote for because nothing will change, at least in their view, why else do people tend not to vote when they are able to?

 

[LongAndShort]

Fair enough. Just don't ***** whenever the elected government does something you don't like or has a negative effect on you.

Even that depends. Some times the most stupid thing, the thing that does effect me is proposed by both parties. For example, my countries largest town needed more roads built. Both political parties said they would do the same thing, bump up fuel prices in the entire country to pay for it. That effects me, no matter what side I chose (if I did bother to vote) it would effect me. So in those situations people still retain the right to be angry at their government.
Besides most of the time shit the government does that annoys people is not something they mention until after they are in office. Otherwise you would all be guilty of everything bad the side you voted for did.

Out of curiousity what country? And yeah i know what you mean. And you can ***** all you want if the people you voted in are doing something you don't like, or the people you voted against are doing something you don't like, as long as you're part of the process.

 

[LongAndShort]

Out of curiousity what country? And yeah i know what you mean. And you can ***** all you want if the people you voted in are doing something you don't like, or the people you voted against are doing something you don't like, as long as you're part of the process.

New Zealand. And apparently the Labour party leader Phil Goff is talking about another increase in fuel taxes to improve Aucklands railway system... The entire country may once again be taxed to pay for one towns improvements...
I hate our government. And this is only one issue. Do not even get me started on the additional government funded benefits that ethnic groups get that comes out of tax payers money but that I am not entitled to as I am white. Racist bastards.
I would happily vote for a side that did not suggest it but as I said. They all have these sorts of plans to buy votes.

I JUST SAID NO BITCHING UNLESS YOU'RE PART OF THE PROCESS! I know how you feel though (the Australian government isn't all that different). Why not vote independent? They are often floating around and occasionally manage to get in. In our Senate the independents hold the balance of power, and not doing to bad a job at keeping both sides in check.

 

[Sulu]

I assume the OP is from the USA. In a country that salutes a flag in schools and often thinks of itself as the most 'free' country, stopping people voting due to whether or not they have a job is very nazi and facist. Nice post OP Goerring!

 

[bigolbear]

first let me say in all seriousness that if you or people with your attitudes were running the county im living in then i would either move or more probably do something about it - quite posibly violent.

I used to work for our government(british), i had a very well paid job and due to my working life(most probably) im now sick. I now live on incapacity benefit and due to the economic crisis im strugling to claim benefits that by all rights i should be entitled to. I would like to point out that when i was working i would estimate i was paying aproximately £25,000 per year in tax when paye, vat and fuel tax are taken into consideration as well as aditional taxes for company car. I feel cheated by the system, and I also feel that governments across the globe are taking a more and more facist view of the populace introducing laws to limit freedom of speech, movement and freedom of choice within our personal lives - whilst increasing the 'security' by implement id checking and watchdog organisations.

I do not beleive in the democratic process - or rather i do not beleive that what we have is working as we are told it is. party Policy matters little and can change rapidly when loby groups offer them money. The politics of our nations(eu and america) are primarily determined by the multinational companies and not by the votes of the individuals. I have come to beleive that democracy as it is implemented is infact nothing more than simply alowing us to chose our own scapegoats so as to quell unrest within the masses - if a king/emperor/dictator were implementing many of the changes we are seeing hapening in modern politics today (such as the anti terror bils or the idcard systems) the people would be disenting enmasse - however because of the democratic system many people simply see it as everyones fault for voting for that party, even when many of these policies are cross party agreed.

For the above reasons i have CHOSEN not to vote for the past 5 to 10 years. This should however be my choice - i have paid into the system more than i will every get back from it, i have risked my mind, body and to be frank, soul for my country. None of this matters tho - because the point of voting in a democratic system in its purest sense is so that the masses get what the masses want. if this includes permanently unemployed people then so what? what makes their opinion any less valid than yours.

Why is it that we have an anti terror bill when the majority dont care and the majority of the rest feel it is an infringement of rights? answer.. because it makes us easy to control and easy to make a profit from.

Why will we have to have biometric identification when most people think its a waste of time and money? because it makes us easy to track.

When will you people learn that the voting masses are nothing but bloody cattle and the only thing that any one with any power or money in this world gives a flying fuck about is keeping what they have and getting more.

MY ADVICE TO THE OP: poverty is humbling.. try it.

 

[wolfy098]

Everyone claims they are searching for work. Also does your list include students? What about the retired or those wealthy enough to not have to work anymore or who employ others. Surely their vote still counts. Especially the retired as they have paid their taxes all their lives.

Okay there is an official limit on "searching" for work
it's either visiting the job center once a week or once every two weeks

Students I had forgotten
but do they "claim the dole"?

Retired people (as far as I know)only get paid in pentions so they come under the Unemployed but not on the dole category

rich unemployed people don't get the dole do they?
So they would come under the Unemployed but not on the dole category

If you employ someone (i.e. owning a business) you have a job
if you meant otherwise tell me

so ha your problems (-students i'll add them in) are sorted

 

[wolfy098]

One question:

Why?

There was a post based around how stupid people who have no idea about politics or American history have the right to vote and therefore mess up the voting system because they don't do so without knowing anything about who they are voting for.

Wolfy is trying to find a better solution.

I know that, but I'm trying to figure out why everybody now seems to be looking for ways to diminish the voting pool.

The system is fine as it is. If you're over 18 and are a legal resident in your country, you should be able to vote. That's all there is to it. No stupid fucking tests or any other dumb pre-requisits.

There are people who just lay around and never go to a job center
they cause trouble for everyone else because they fail to even try to work.

should leeches make decisions

This isn't people who are out of work this is people who don't go to the job center to try to find work

 

[wolfy098]

I assume the OP is from the USA. In a country that salutes a flag in schools and often thinks of itself as the most 'free' country, stopping people voting due to whether or not they have a job is very nazi and facist. Nice post OP Goerring!

Actually I'm british

and i'd burn the flag before saluting it

 

[Sulu]

There are people who just lay around and never go to a job center
they cause trouble for everyone else because they fail to even try to work.

should leeches make decisions

This isn't people who are out of work this is people who don't go to the job center to try to find work

The answer is to stop handing out benefits not to stop people voting.
We live in an ageing population so you might want to think about keeping and encouraging as many young people as possible to vote, which will of course benefit you. Unless you want to lower the below 64 (years old) voting pool even more and pay higher taxes..