John Carmack Apologizes for Rage's "Inexcusable" PC Release

[Baresark]

2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."


2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual observations.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

He might truly think PC is the best platform when it's working right, but getting everything right is clearly not the priority. Making more money out of the bigger console audience is. He's not a tool, just a sellout.

Well, spaceships [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armadillo_Aerospace] aren't cheap, you know?

 

[ThreeKneeNick]

He might truly think PC is the best platform when it's working right, but getting everything right is clearly not the priority. Making more money out of the bigger console audience is. He's not a tool, just a sellout.

Well, spaceships [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armadillo_Aerospace] aren't cheap, you know?

Oh look a that. It's all okay then.

 

[II2]

Well played, JC... It's nice to see Carmack owning his (and by extension, teams) mistakes. I played RAGE on PC and really enjoyed it, it's actually a very enjoyable title with a lot going for it, but it was pretty busted out the door... Didn't work at all on the card I first tried it with.

Initially, he was blaming multiplatforming focus and video card manufacturers to pass off responsibility, so it's nice to see him turn that around, partly because he IS in a position of influence and people look to him.

Basically, he's in a position to be arrogant and get away with it, so it's nice to see some humility, even if it's after the fact.

That's just my take though, others might have a better framework or more refined view on the subject.

EDIT: I see a lot of others aren't as impressed. I don't really know the whole story, so while I do think in principle it was a gesture of good will, I'm open to the notion that it might be outweighted by other dickish behavior I'm not aware of. Don't dogpile me, plz

 

[Baresark]

snip

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual observations.

I knew someone on this board would nitpick and try to defend him. That is not a casual observation; You ARE trying to start a flame war, but I'll keep it civil and simple.

The very concept that a PC is "not working right" is directly in contention with any realm of physical thought. PC's and consoles share quite a bit of the same hardware, so to imply that PC's "don't work right" is self defeating. Sure, the PC doesn't work when you toss it out the window, but neither does the PS3. The difference? Sony sues you when you toss the PS3 out the window.

No wait, I know what you are going to say. He was referring to PC software and operating systems, not hardware. There's just so much to nail down in terms of varying graphics card drivers, OS versions, and even processor technology! Sure these systems are great when you get the exact right combination of all these elements, but how can a dev possibly get stable builds working on ALL those variations.

Let's look at a tiny sampling of the few, elite game projects to have successfully pulled off releases across the PC and console in 2011:

DC Universe Online
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Venetica
Dead Space 2
Two Worlds II
Test Drive Unlimited 2
Battle High: San Bruno
You Don't Know Jack
Bulletstorm
Gray Matter
Major League Baseball 2K11
Homefront
Top Spin 4
Crysis 2
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime

Wow they actually got lucky this year and got several titles ou...oh wait..that was just the first quarter.

And by the same definition of these releases existing at all, he's completely off base in calling any platform "a leading platform for games" because he can't even get a release off between the two in the first place.

Face it, he backpedaled harder than Liu Kang holding light kick for -5 seconds. And you expect me to buy into it? GTFO.

No, I'm not starting a flame war, I was only making an observation. You seemed to know my response to the first part. He could only be talking from the perspective of software as he is a software programmer/designer.

You named a bunch of successful console ports, but for everyone of the perfectly working ones you described, there is 1 console port that did not work, some not at all on release.

I thought I pointed this out already but I'll try again. He calls them leading platforms because that is where most of the game playing population exists. He didn't refer to them as more powerful or better to work on, only that is the goal of any profit seeking company first and foremost, to occupy the sections where you will get the most business from your product.

Also, I'm not defending him, you should really stop trying so hard to be offended by what people say. I'm glad he finally took responsibility for what the RAGE port had as short comings. But I reiterate my main point, which was to point out that things you quoted are not contradictory to each other or this.

I get what you are trying to do, post a record with quotes about his seesawing back and forth on the issue of PC Gaming. I'm not even saying he did not seesaw. Once again, my responses on this are to your direct quotes, not on the issue itself. My post was meant to be informative, which is why I said I was not trying to start an argument. But your use of exclamations and inflammatory language such as calling my comment nitpicking and defensive to John Carmac, when they were not either of those things is not you being civilized.

 

[Two-A]

Spoiler

2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."


2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

Spoiler

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual

Spoiler

I knew someone on this board would nitpick and try to defend him. That is not a casual observation; You ARE trying to start a flame war, but I'll keep it civil and simple.

The very concept that a PC is "not working right" is directly in contention with any realm of physical thought. PC's and consoles share quite a bit of the same hardware, so to imply that PC's "don't work right" is self defeating. Sure, the PC doesn't work when you toss it out the window, but neither does the PS3. The difference? Sony sues you when you toss the PS3 out the window.

No wait, I know what you are going to say. He was referring to PC software and operating systems, not hardware. There's just so much to nail down in terms of varying graphics card drivers, OS versions, and even processor technology! Sure these systems are great when you get the exact right combination of all these elements, but how can a dev possibly get stable builds working on ALL those variations.

Let's look at a tiny sampling of the few, elite game projects to have successfully pulled off releases across the PC and console in 2011:

DC Universe Online
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Venetica
Dead Space 2
Two Worlds II
Test Drive Unlimited 2
Battle High: San Bruno
You Don't Know Jack
Bulletstorm
Gray Matter
Major League Baseball 2K11
Homefront
Top Spin 4
Crysis 2
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime

Wow they actually got lucky this year and got several titles ou...oh wait..that was just the first quarter.

And by the same definition of these releases existing at all, he's completely off base in calling any platform "a leading platform for games" because he can't even get a release off between the two in the first place.

Face it, he backpedaled harder than Liu Kang holding light kick for -5 seconds. And you expect me to buy into it? GTFO.

I don't get it, those two quotes are not contradicting themselves. It's actually a solid statement: "PC gaming is the best when done right, but It's not the leading platform" I imagine that what he meant with "working right" is when the game lets you use the advantages of PC gaming or when it's working without bugs; and by the way, computers do fail. A computer is not working right when it overheats, or when it bluescreens, so it's not outside the realm of physical thought.

The majority of the games you mentioned are CONSOLE ports, which means they were developed for consoles first and then ported to PC. The fact that there was means that there's still a market for PC games, but the fact that most of these are ports means that it's not the leading platform. The reason this port in particular was a disaster has to do with the fact that it was made on a new engine, this, when combined with the fact that it was a huge game means that there were going to be bugs which they should have definetly spent more time erasing

Also, the fact that people have different opinions doesn't mean they are trying to start a flame war. I know it's jarring that one of the most influential men in the PC gaming industry is not doing justice to the platform that gave him a job. But that doesn't mean that you should be so hostile to people in a forum. Chill out a bit

 

[Waaghpowa]

"PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

Surely that should be "PC, when it's products are working right, is far, far better"

This is what I wanted to say. My PC works fine, and runs everything fine. The only game in the last year I've had problems with was RAGE. Go figure.

 

[Something Amyss]

If i remember corectly(and i probably dont), didnt he , or someone else from his studio say that pc`s are annoyng to make games for? And , besides, the game had more problems besides the whole driver thing,like beng extreamly mediocre for example.

Actually, he was big on PCs at the time of Rage's release, and seems to be a long time PC fan. Worst thing he said was that PC was not the lead platform.

And even that, he seems to lament as he talks about the awesomeness of his dev rig.

Still, making the game good should have also been a priority. But hey, this is modern gaming, where people go for the shiny turd anyway.

 

[omicron1]

My PC version works right (one year later)... for 9 out of every 10 minutes (half-second freezes aside). If I don't turn the camera at more than 15 degrees per second. Wasn't this supposed to be fixed by now?

 

[Alleged_Alec]

I don't know. I really like Carmack; he's one of the greatest (well known) conceptual, low-level IT guys in the business and created more innovative techniques than anyone out there. However, as of late, his games have been somewhat lackluster. I don't know if it's his fault, the writing team or whoever, but it's a shame.

What is also a shame is that he did not take more time to get megatexturing to work. If id had, it'd actually have made developing games less time-consuming (less micromanagement of resources which the artists have to take into account) and thus less expensive to make. I still think that it can work, given a bit more attention.

 

[VoidWanderer]

Being a PC and console gamer, I admit to buying Rage on my PS3 because I don't trust my graphics card.

The PC gets some great games, but when I am looking for games I'd rather go "Oh, that looks good/interesting!" than "What were those specs again?".

And I am going to avoid mentioning anything further about the 'civil war' between the two posters above me.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

*Release game with major issues* - "It's your fault, the game itself is fine"

One year later - "Sorry for our bad game"

Does anyone else notice the fact that this happens a lot?

 

[Signa]

2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."


2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

I'd be willing to accept that maybe he had to make the statement in 2011 because of investors, or that he made the statement in 2012 because he saw something that he couldn't see before, but damn it John, have a little consistency!

 

[Viper114]

RAGE was a decent game, but the problems were as they said: technical issues (graphics, drivers) and the ending (which was kind of poor but also at least hinted of a sequel being possible). The gameplay itself wasn't that bad, to be honest.

 

[Tiamat666]

But did they ever actually fix those issues, or is the game in its current state still unplayable?

I never had any problems with RAGE and I think it's a buttload of fun. The multiplayer car matches are also surprisingly interesting. But the highlights are definitively the FPS mechanics, which Id obviously excels at, and the enemy NPC AI, behaviour and animation.

RAGE was a decent game, but the problems were as they said: technical issues (graphics, drivers) and the ending (which was kind of poor but also at least hinted of a sequel being possible). The gameplay itself wasn't that bad, to be honest.

Indeed, the ending comes a little too fast. There should have been a bit more authority fighting at the end.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

So then, is he going to correct the mistake he made and fix the game for the people that already forked over money for it and got screwed?

 

[Signa]

2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."


2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

I'd be willing to accept that maybe he had to make the statement in 2011 because of investors, or that he made the statement in 2012 because he saw something that he couldn't see before, but damn it John, have a little consistency!

Where's the inconsistency? Console versions have more audience and the devs have to make games with them in mind. However, it doesn't excuse all the issues with the PC version and PC is better when it's working right.

Just because the language isn't contradictory doesn't mean his sentiments weren't. He was throwing the PC under the bus last year, and now he's praising it. Sure, he could like the PC despite what he said, but that doesn't mean he's talking like it likes it as he his now.

 

[Metalrocks]

thats why i dint get the game. and to be honest. i actually dont want to play it. the retail version requires LIVE, which im staying far away from. steam doesnt need it, thank god, but 25GB is still very huge and would takes ages for me to download.
plus, im tired of this apocalyptic scenario.

 

[RJ 17]

I'm still waiting for an apology for the inexcusable ending.

***** all you want about the ME 3 ending, at least it HAD an ending. If Rage's ending were any more abrupt, bland, and empty, it would be able to suck out your soul upon completing the game.

Seriously, "Fight off a few waves of mutants instead of having a boss fight! Done? Alright, roll credits."

 

[ParkerBaby]

I picked up Rage on Steam this weekend and I have to say, I'm having fun with it. I can only stand a few hours of the kinda empty 'open' world and crappy story, but the game is at least fun to play.

Of course, this all after spending a day messing around with files and folders to try and get the game to cooperate. Jumping from BF3 to Rage and getting 10 FPS had me pulling my hair out.