John Carmack Says No Dedicated Servers for Rage

[ReepNeep]

I'd be really interested to hear what he's got to say on the subject. Interviews with Carmack are always really interesting reads and the guy is staggeringly intelligent.

I wonder if this may have to do with the fact that games made with the Rage engine are essentially unmoddable because of the megatexturing technology?

Anyway, technical skill or no, Id hasn't made a good game since Quake 3 back in 1999.

 

[Georgeman]

Eh... "Suck it down you PC noobs/snobs/elitists/retards! Me am right, you r wrong! Oh my god, I am so genius!" That's what Carmack is saying in a nutshell.

I could care less what big shot developers think that is right. If you go against the wishes of your customers, it will be a decision you'll sooner or later come to pay dearly. Remnant of the past? Where have I heard this before? Oh wait, now I remember: Starcraft II lack of Lan. Arrrggghhh...

 

[stabnex]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Another game I don't have to spend money on now!

 

[shadow skill]

This is not the way to stimulate PC game sales you morons!

Nobody cares about stimulating PC game sales except people who sell PC gaming equipment.

Game developers care about selling games. If they sell a copy of a game on PC, Xbox 360, or PS3 it's all the same to them - just one copy sold. The only reason why a platform is added to the list is because they think they can sell enough copies of the game on that platform to make a profit over the cost of the development for that platform.

Dedicated servers are a PC-only thing. PCs are the smallest market for mainstream games these days, and the effort probably isn't paying off anymore.

That's why about four PS3 exclusive gams use dedicated servers. That's why Socom back on the PS2 used dedicated servers. That is why the few MMO' on consoles use dedicated servers... Ironically on the PC the game devs rarely pay for server upkeep at all. It is the players themselves that pay an ISP of some sort for the server all the dev has to do is release the server program to the public.

 

[Slash Dementia]

Hmm. This is disappointing even though I'm not a PC gamer.
I wouldn't want Carmack to lose any fan or sales because of this. Hopefully he will use dedicated servers, but I really want to read/hear exactly why John Carmack is doing this in an interview.

His interviews are great.

 

[number2301]

As a console only player, I don't get what all the fuss is about. Whats so special about the dedicated servers anyway? what do they do differently to console online? why are companies dropping it in favour of other methods, and how are those other methods meant to be better?

So many questions!

A dedicated server hosts the game with no players on, that means it can be set up for whatever game modes and left running.

Basically what it means as a gamer is that you get a list of servers which are there all the time, it tells you the game mode, number of players on, number of spaces available, map etc.

My experience of console gaming is that you click on multiplayer, it puts you in a random game with random people, random maps etc etc etc.

With dedicated servers you choose everything, you get to know the servers which are good/which people you like go on etc.

Far superior to random match making.

 

[Pendragon9]

Yep. Looks like it's gonna be another game of "Follow the leader" when it comes to servers. I can imagine a slew of games throwing out dedicated servers for this.

 

[Ranooth]

Can't they wait to see if it works with MW2 first and then decide to use it?

 

[uppitycracker]

The beginning of the end.... IW really is setting a new standard, that is essentially screwing over the same people that made them what they are today. Good job, IW, alienating us PC gamers and standardizing the console experience on PC.

I don't think you can blame IW for this. This is the sort of decision you don't make in the span of a month, and from what Carmack said it sounded like they'd been planning on it for a while. This was probably the direction Carmack & Co. decided on themselves. As much as people like to pin the blame on IW (and by extension Activision, since it is obviously The Great Satan and behind everything evil ever), their only sin in this case was probably announcing it first.

First of all, we can't blame activision for this. They leave a lot of creative control in the hands of the developers, and in this case, it was a decision made by IW. Activision is just backing them up on this. Second, regardless of whether Carmack had been planning this or not, the reason why it's such a big deal is the size of MW2. It's such a huge game, with such a huge audience, that it makes a much bigger impact than what Carmack might have going on, regardless of what he may have done for the PC community in the past. And he may have been toying with the idea already, but I bet it was still an undecided decision until IW announced this.

 

[j0z]

I hope this doesn't become the new norm... I pray to [insert deity(s) here] that it doesn't.

If Valve releases Team Fortress 3 or Counter-Strike 2 with no dedicated servers, then we will know it is the end.

 

[Steelfists]

John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Games are not like Quantum Physics. You can't have huge success, and then years later, when the industry has changed completely, and still be considered an expert just because you were years ago.

 

[DTWolfwood]

If there is no lag when i boot the game up and join a match, than i will have no problems. However if it takes me more than 1 minute to join a match, I will be thoroughly pissed off.

The whole console peer to peer pisses me off when you trying to find some1 to play with on a game mode/map that isnt as popular I just cant stand the wait. That is the one of the reason i love Dedicated servers AND listings. You find the one with a low ping many player and enter! quick and painless, no BS "Searching for players" or "Waiting for players to load." I bought the game to play it not wait in a waiting room <.<

 

[Pingieking]

I'm actually relatively ok with the lack of a server. AS LONG AS: they come up with a solution that offers the same features that servers did, especially the kicking ability and the low ping rates.

So you're okay with the removal of dedicated server support, as long as all the functionality of dedicated server support remains?

I suppose I can't disagree with that, but it's a bit of a reinvention of the wheel, is it not?

It's more of the idea that a wheel made of rubber, plastic, and metal is better than a wheel made of wood. They would do the same basic stuff, just one would be able to perform better in most cases, and be more accessable.

I personally don't find anything wrong with the dedicated servers. However, I have heard complaints that they're too complicated (I strongly disagree). So if Id Software can come up with a system that offers all the features of dedicated server system, and make it more accessable (or whatever new stuff they managed to stick in it), then I'm all for it.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

John Carmak hasn't REALLY been relevant since the early 90's. He really reminds me of the kid from Grandma's Boy. What was the famous quote from him? Something to the effect of "Plot in videogames is like plot in porn; its expected but not important."

Especially not multiplayerwise. Rage looks pretty run for singleplayer, but is anyone really holding their breath to try it's multiplayer?

 

[number2301]

What did Carmack do that was really, and I mean REALLY good in the past 7 years or so? And I mean, really, worthy of mentioning.

Wolfenstein from 2009 was at best a decent game. Quake Wars was good, but I doubt he had much to do with it.

played a FPS recently? you did? thank Carmack, he paved the way for modern day FPS's. Every time you play any FPS, Carmack and id helped clear the way for it, in essence, he is the Odin of PC FPS's.

As was John Romero and well Daikatana?

 

[The Great JT]

PC Gaming now: "I say, did you see the cartoon in the New Yorker? It was quite good."
PC Gaming eventually: "dooodz, i lulz so hard @ CAD !!1!111!"

Excuse me, I'm going to take a shower to cleanse my fingers of the filth I put in for the "PC Gaming eventually" comment. Pip pip, cheerio.

 

[Abedeus]

What did Carmack do that was really, and I mean REALLY good in the past 7 years or so? And I mean, really, worthy of mentioning.

Wolfenstein from 2009 was at best a decent game. Quake Wars was good, but I doubt he had much to do with it.

played a FPS recently? you did? thank Carmack, he paved the way for modern day FPS's. Every time you play any FPS, Carmack and id helped clear the way for it, in essence, he is the Odin of PC FPS's.

So if he says they are planning on dropping Dedicated Servers, there is a good reason for it.

Stop living in the past.

The Wright dude also did some things good, and look at his latest game. Let down, huh? Times changed, his games were good for the time, but if someone just sits on his ass and takes the credit for something he did over 10 years ago, then excuse me if I don't consider him an authority figure. Also, read this:

John Carmack is one of the people who made PC gaming what it is today. Few people know the platform better, I'd wager.

So it's really interesting to see him saying this.

Games are not like Quantum Physics. You can't have huge success, and then years later, when the industry has changed completely, and still be considered an expert just because you were years ago.

 

[countrysteaksauce]

I hope this doesn't become the new norm... I pray to [insert deity(s) here] that it doesn't.

If Valve releases Team Fortress 3 or Counter-Strike 2 with no dedicated servers, then we will know it is the end.

Agreed. Once Valve caves, it might be high time to buy a console. I sure will miss mouse aiming though.