John Marston (Red Dead) - Not badass enough

[Jiveturkey124]

I know Ill get flaked huge for this, but to me the Character of John Marston is just too damn polite and not nearly badass enough to be doing all the crazy shit he gets into in Red Dead Redemption. Like I get that we are supposed to believe that hes a former criminal turned good guy, but that's it! Hes just too damn nice all the time! I'm sorry call me spoiled by stories like Game of Thrones, but if a main character whose supposed to be a badass doesn't at least kill a couple innocent people, ruin a few friends lives, or just generally mess shit up for no reason, I just cant believe his character.

Maybe that's what it is for me, hes just too "Good Guy", hes not nearly enough of a "Grey" character. That he led this former life of horrible crime and now lives solely for unselfish purpose, makes him sound so cliche in my opinion. Now do I complete hate him? No! I actually find some of his lines to be very witty, and at times just straight up Intellectual!

Like when you first get into Bonnies ranch and he says that line "Well you'll have to excuse me for my reticence." I was like WOAH...did a video game character just use a cool word that I didn't know yet? And its not just that he said it but the voice actor actually made it believable.

But in the end, I just wanted him to be so much more of a character. He seemed more plain to me than anything in the end because he just never showed us his true darkside, hiding behind his smart words and his overly-textured facial scars.

 

[TheCommanders]

I like a polite character, personally. I loved - for example - Haytham Keynway in AC:3 (a lot more than Connor, actually) for being so damn british and gentlmanly. In the case of Marston, I think he might have always been soft spoken, but on a few occasions when he starts to lose his patience (like with the grave robber) you really get the sense of how dangerous he is under his veneer of civility. It's possible he's overcompensating on the politeness to help him control his baser urges which he's been keeping in check ever since he got married and had a kid. Just my take on the character.

 

[Vegosiux]

Wait since when is "lots of attitude" a requirement for badassery? To be a badass all you have to do is do badass things, no need to strut around like you own the place and bark at people. I mean, if it's too polite to be believable, I'll give you that, it's stupid.

But the kicker with these characters is that when they do lose their cool, you know things got serious and someone's going to pay for that.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

You don't have to be an asshole to be "badass," that's just a 90s thing.

I imagine that most people during that time period were fairly polite. Why? Because everyone carried a gun and there was barely even a veneer of law, so if you were an asshole and mouthed off to people you were liable to get shot for no good reason.

 

[Zhukov]

I liked that he was polite and civil.

I'm not a huge fan of the character, but I loved that aspect of him.

Surely not every "badass" has to be an obnoxious prick?

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Considering that Red Dead Redemption is a story about redemption, I'd say John Marston's attempts at remaining civil are pretty understandable. Besides, if you spend the time between missions robbing stores and trains and killing civilians out in the countryside you'll quickly make Marston seem truly psychopathic.

 

[ERaptor]

I disagree. His very polite attitude, which could vanish here and there if his patience ran out, actually sold him to me. You could specualte that he wants to redeem himself strongly enough that even his attitude changed. Or maybe he was allways the polite, quiet type. And i can guruantee you, if THOSE lose their sh*t, it's a whole lot worse than the stereotypical "badass" who just crakcs one-liners while riding a Mecha-Dragon into the sun.It's one of the reasons Riddick falls so flat to me, if he had any personality APART from "badass one-liner", he would've been a ton better. And Marston actually delivers on that.

 

[skywolfblue]

Considering that Red Dead Redemption is a story about redemption, I'd say John Marston's attempts at remaining civil are pretty understandable. Besides, if you spend the time between missions robbing stores and trains and killing civilians out in the countryside you'll quickly make Marston seem truly psychopathic.

I'll second this.

---

Red Dead Redemption borrows heavily from it's sources of classic western cinema. The "once bad" "but now good, and on the path to redemption" is pretty much essential. It's cliche, but the good kind of cliche, the kind that makes you smile with familiarity. (Or at least I do)

 

[Arslan Aladeen]

Personally, I just couldn't get over the fact that he was trying to find 'redemption' yet was helping grave robbers and snake oil salesman swindle people.

 

[Abomination]

Clearly you've heard the phrase "speak softly and carry a big stick" this is pretty much what it means to be a badass.

Like an avalanche, you are stoic and silent until you drop half a mountain on someone.

The Japanese try and do this with their "badasses" in Anime but they frequently put too much emphasis on the silent part and just have them be brooding, boring and bland.

Alfred is more badass than Batman, Wolverine is more badass than The Juggernaut, Geralt is more badass than many other fantasy protagonists... because they're not mouthing off all the time and generally being annoying.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Alfred is more badass than Batman because [he's] not mouthing off all the time and generally being annoying.

Um...what?

Alfred mouths off to Batman, and it's hilarious when he does it since it happens to infrequently.


Seriously, Batman is pretty much the epitome of the whole silent badass thing. Hell, he interrogates people by staring at them until they just break and start talking.

And for that matter, Wolverine mouths off just as much as the Juggernaut does. He makes tons of sarcastic remarks all the time.

You did not make the best examples.

 

[Talin Silverbane]

"but if a main character whose supposed to be a badass doesn't at least kill a couple innocent people, ruin a few friends lives, or just generally mess shit up for no reason, I just cant believe his character

Sorry but that does not sound like a badass, that sound like a murderous evil asshole. Why would you want to be that?!

 

[King of Asgaard]

Wait since when is "lots of attitude" a requirement for badassery? To be a badass all you have to do is do badass things, no need to strut around like you own the place and bark at people. I mean, if it's too polite to be believable, I'll give you that, it's stupid.

But the kicker with these characters is that when they do lose their cool, you know things got serious and someone's going to pay for that.

Exactly. On the couple of occasions when Marston almost snaps, you get the feeling the hell he'd send them to would seem like heaven after what he'd have done to them.

OT: Badassery is not based on how much scenery you chew or how loud you yell. Is Clint Eastwood not a badass in A Fistful of Dollars/For A Few Dollars More/The Good The Bad and The Ugly, or Unforgiven? Of course he is, but he's just as soft-spoken as Marston, even though he could murder half of the Wild West if he were so inclined. In the latter example, he plays an old retired badass going on one more bounty hunt to get enough cash to care for his kids. He spends the entire film being unsure of himself, even showing that he's too old to get the job done. Then shit gets real, and the last 15 minutes are just him being awesome.

So really, being a badass comes from what you do, and the adversity you have to overcome to achieve your goals, not how big an asshole you are.

 

[Casual Shinji]

John Martson failed to be a badass not because he was polite, he failed to be one because he was a doormat to raping warlords and necrophiliacs. He was an obedient little pooch who took orders from everyone and never took matters into his own hands.

 

[Cabisco]

I like a polite character, personally. I loved - for example - Haytham Keynway in AC:3 (a lot more than Connor, actually) for being so damn british and gentlmanly. In the case of Marston, I think he might have always been soft spoken, but on a few occasions when he starts to lose his patience (like with the grave robber) you really get the sense of how dangerous he is under his veneer of civility. It's possible he's overcompensating on the politeness to help him control his baser urges which he's been keeping in check ever since he got married and had a kid. Just my take on the character.

Agreed on both accounts, I was so bitterly disappointed when I found in AC3 I was playing as Connor instead of Mr Britania.

Marston I thought was a brilliant character though, I think his polite demeanour worked well as you felt the rage bubbling just underneath the surface.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Marston is a total doormat. The dude was everyone's whipping boy. Even to clearly horrible people.
"You better tell me where Bill Williamson is, or I'm going to get really mad."
"Whatever, gringo. Go do this thing for me."
"Okay...."
The entire game in a nutshell.

 

[Doclector]

I think he was more badass for being so damn polite. You get the sense that he's so used to violence that it's another day on the job for him, only with the added complications of working with the government.

 

[piinyouri]

As a lot of other people said I believe personally his 'badass' quality comes from what he doesn't say.
The fact that he's a polite courteous good hearted man makes the times when you see his hatred bubble up from time to time, and suggests he's not all what he seems.