Joss Whedon: I Would Not Want DC to Do What Marvel Does

[faefrost]

Should they copy Marvel? Hell no. But they should at least pick up on what Marvel has done right. Marvel has recognized that each of their separate properties has its own tone and genre. Captain America is a modern action spy setting. Thor is a more traditional fantasy. Guardians of the Galaxy is pure Space Opera. They let their IP be itself, and still manage to bridge it together.

But DC started from the extreme point, the Dark Knight, and has seemingly tried to shoehorn that style and genre into them all. Love or hate Man of Steel it was a horrible Superman movie because it was trying to be The Dark Knight. DC tries to match up the universe first then bends the characters and story to fit. Marvel lets the characters and stories be their classic selves, then just glues them together at the edges.

The first thing DC needs to do is fire the guy who is so overly fond of the colors blue and orange.

 

[tzimize]

What, you mean make good movies? Well yeah, then you would have competition.

Ha ha :>

OT: I think both companies should do what fits the story they want to tell, and what fits the superhero in general. Making the Batman movies dark and realistic works VERY well because Batman doesnt have a lot of fancy superpowers, and his villains can often be on the dark and insane side.

Doing Batman like for example Iron Man or Spider man would be.....unfitting.

The other side of the coin is Superman. He is the other side of good compared to Batman and I really thought they missed the mark with Man of Steel. Superman was too down to earth...hehe...He should have been lighter, in heart.

Depends on the story, and depends on the hero. Gritty can work as well as hearty laughs.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

There you go, Marvel's heart of hearts gives a professional, level-headed appreceation of what two different studios are doing with the superhero genre. Wasn't that a nice read for a change.

 

[Ieyke]

Translation: "Why would we want competition? Watching DC constantly fail is hilarious. Sometimes they get something right and it's really cool to watch, but that's only ever Batman. Stick to Batman if you want to be successful, DC, it's the only thing you're good at....well, sometimes you're good at it."

 

[Kyogissun]

Should they copy Marvel? Hell no. But they should at least pick up on what Marvel has done right. Marvel has recognized that each of their separate properties has its own tone and genre. Captain America is a modern action spy setting. Thor is a more traditional fantasy. Guardians of the Galaxy is pure Space Opera. They let their IP be itself, and still manage to bridge it together.

But DC started from the extreme point, the Dark Knight, and has seemingly tried to shoehorn that style and genre into them all. Love or hate Man of Steel it was a horrible Superman movie because it was trying to be The Dark Knight. DC tries to match up the universe first then bends the characters and story to fit. Marvel lets the characters and stories be their classic selves, then just glues them together at the edges.

The first thing DC needs to do is fire the guy who is so overly fond of the colors blue and orange.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I had no interest in Man of Steel because it felt like the Dark Knight Trilogy: Superman Edition and it's frustrating to think that they're going to try this again with other properties.

You know WHY people keep going to MCU films? Why they continue to enjoy each one and they're so successful? Because they're finding something for everyone. Everyone can either enjoy each movie on its own or enjoy the entire universe and multiple genres for a full course of experiences.

Variety is the spice of life and Marvel CLEARLY has a grasp on that with the MCU.

 

[faefrost]

Should they copy Marvel? Hell no. But they should at least pick up on what Marvel has done right. Marvel has recognized that each of their separate properties has its own tone and genre. Captain America is a modern action spy setting. Thor is a more traditional fantasy. Guardians of the Galaxy is pure Space Opera. They let their IP be itself, and still manage to bridge it together.

But DC started from the extreme point, the Dark Knight, and has seemingly tried to shoehorn that style and genre into them all. Love or hate Man of Steel it was a horrible Superman movie because it was trying to be The Dark Knight. DC tries to match up the universe first then bends the characters and story to fit. Marvel lets the characters and stories be their classic selves, then just glues them together at the edges.

The first thing DC needs to do is fire the guy who is so overly fond of the colors blue and orange.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I had no interest in Man of Steel because it felt like the Dark Knight Trilogy: Superman Edition and it's frustrating to think that they're going to try this again with other properties.

You know WHY people keep going to MCU films? Why they continue to enjoy each one and they're so successful? Because they're finding something for everyone. Everyone can either enjoy each movie on its own or enjoy the entire universe and multiple genres for a full course of experiences.

Variety is the spice of life and Marvel CLEARLY has a grasp on that with the MCU.

It's a little more complicated than that. Marvel has mastered the art of making the new movies both familiar and approachable, while at the same time feeling new and fresh. It's a good trick if you can master it. But it's something that Stan Lee and company mastered in the original comics back at the dawn of the Silver Age. The big mystery is why it took Hollywood 50 years to figure out the formula?

 

[faefrost]

Translation: "Why would we want competition? Watching DC constantly fail is hilarious. Sometimes they get something right and it's really cool to watch, but that's only ever Batman. Stick to Batman if you want to be successful, DC, it's the only thing you're good at....well, sometimes you're good at it."

Nah! I think Wheedon and honestly most of Marvel's movie division really want DC's stuff to be good. They want Justice League to be the best movie it can be. Why? Because unlike we fanboys out here who revel in the perceived petty rivalries and studio slap fights, most people who actually make these things fully realize that this is NOT a zero sum game. Every person who will spend the price of a ticket to go see Batman V Superman, who comes out liking it will also spend that same price to go see Captain America 3. 2013 was the best box office on record because the various movies fed into each other. You liked the first and wanted to see what came out next week. Whereas this summer has been a Hollywood disapointment because there is no synergy between movies. Nothing that keeps the patern going. Just Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy and a long barren wasteland of drek between the two.

So yeah Wheedon really really does want DC to succeed. He benefits from it.

P.S. How much do you want to guess how badly DC's execs are castigating themselves (or more likely an underling) for not going forward with Wheedon's Wonder Woman movie a few years back?

 

[Kyogissun]

Should they copy Marvel? Hell no. But they should at least pick up on what Marvel has done right. Marvel has recognized that each of their separate properties has its own tone and genre. Captain America is a modern action spy setting. Thor is a more traditional fantasy. Guardians of the Galaxy is pure Space Opera. They let their IP be itself, and still manage to bridge it together.

But DC started from the extreme point, the Dark Knight, and has seemingly tried to shoehorn that style and genre into them all. Love or hate Man of Steel it was a horrible Superman movie because it was trying to be The Dark Knight. DC tries to match up the universe first then bends the characters and story to fit. Marvel lets the characters and stories be their classic selves, then just glues them together at the edges.

The first thing DC needs to do is fire the guy who is so overly fond of the colors blue and orange.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I had no interest in Man of Steel because it felt like the Dark Knight Trilogy: Superman Edition and it's frustrating to think that they're going to try this again with other properties.

You know WHY people keep going to MCU films? Why they continue to enjoy each one and they're so successful? Because they're finding something for everyone. Everyone can either enjoy each movie on its own or enjoy the entire universe and multiple genres for a full course of experiences.

Variety is the spice of life and Marvel CLEARLY has a grasp on that with the MCU.

It's a little more complicated than that. Marvel has mastered the art of making the new movies both familiar and approachable, while at the same time feeling new and fresh. It's a good trick if you can master it. But it's something that Stan Lee and company mastered in the original comics back at the dawn of the Silver Age. The big mystery is why it took Hollywood 50 years to figure out the formula?

I appreciate the expansion upon my suggestion concerning the MCU's success and definitely admit you've phrased it better.

But wouldn't it better to ALSO ask not only why it took Hollywood 50 years to figure it out... But why some companies 'still' can't figure it out.

 

[Saltyk]

Whedon shouldn't worry. DC are as committed to the DCMU as Italy was to the Second World War. Yeah, you did well with a couple previous outings, but you're doing too much too fast, bitten off more than you can chew. Bat's V Sups has to introduce what, 4 new heroes and (Maybe) 2 Villains.

Granted, Batman is Batman, but still, you have to introduce him in this new world you have to build. Then Wonder Woman, who's origin is baffling and weird, given how often they change, Lex Luthor is fairly straight forward, money and power corrupts, but then Aquaman and Cyborg, who have been oddly absent from promotional, which hints to some shame that they're involved. That's another issue, shame. If no one making these seems proud to have Aquaman, god of the ocean, or Cyborg, badass super smart cyborg (Robocop but with emotions), in their production, that speaks volumes for the rest of the universe.

How do you introduce the fantastical elements of the JLA like Zatanna or the Martian Manhunter? Will they be ignored in fear of being laughed out the cinema or will they make them Grimdark and 'Realistic'?

And, on my own personal note, why the hell should I care for a movie franchise that so far has shown me that all it want's is Grimdark serious? And has shown me that it shall keep that? It's not like Flash or Arrow are being part of it, a misstep if any.

At least Marvel took there time before the Money shot that was Avengers. DC seem to just want to shoot their load of the JLA as soon as possible so it doesn't get embarrassed by it.

You hit the nail on the head. DC seems ashamed of the DC universe. Aquaman is a joke, but it's often pointed out that writers don't really know what to do with him. Most of his useful powers are covered by Superman and his only unique powers seem fairly useless. I say seem fairly useless, because Young Justice and Teen Titans both showed how bad ass AquaLAD could be and he should be weaker than Aquaman.

Meanwhile, Marvel just released a movie featuring a tree man that can only say "I am Groot" and a talking raccoon with a chip on his shoulder. And I'll be damned if they didn't steal the show and if Marvel isn't proud of them. Hell, they gave a private showing to Rocket Raccoon's severely ill co-creator. Is it any wonder that it's already earned over $220 million worldwide?

Anyway, that dread of their own universe is kinda sad. I loved Cyborg in Teen Titans. Zatanna is always a joy. And Martian Manhunter was a great addition to the Justice League series.

You know what movie DC should announce other than Wonder Woman? Static Shock!

 

[Dragonheart57]

I don't think I can look forward to a Justice League movie when I think about it. Marvel did Avengers the best way possible, and now anything DC does is either going to be disappointing or a rip-off. Even aside from that, I'd prefer it if DC stuck to using only one or two heroes per movie/series. They get a tighter focus that way, and it allows for more exploration of the hero than forcing them all to share screen time. Hopefully with less grimdarkness though. The Batman aesthetic wore thin rather quickly for me.

 

[Atary77]

It's not that WB has to copy what Marvel is doing, it's that WB has to understand their characters better. Marvel does Superman better than WB has with Man of Steel. Look at Captain America, his personality traits are what Superman should've been!

 

[Jacked Assassin]

I feel as though the difference between Marvel & DC isn't really Avengers & Justice League. But instead Tony Stark & Batman.

The Emphasis with Tony Stark is wit & the need to be funny. By some extension you also see that with Captain America, Thor, & the last Hulk movies before they teamed up in Avengers.

The Emphasis with Batman is gritty & the reminder of a dark past. This is how the new Superman movie in part became gritty with the need for a dark past. (Even though the previous Batman trilogy isn't part of the new continuity.)

In that sense both universes started off with the same idea. But went in different directions.

Marvel likes to party, but DC likes to buzzkill.

 

[FPLOON]

You know what movie DC should announce other than Wonder Woman? Static Shock!

I think the day DC announces a Static Shock movie would be the day I would be asking people to pinch me to make sure I'm not just dreaming... again...

 

[Ieyke]

P.S. How much do you want to guess how badly DC's execs are castigating themselves (or more likely an underling) for not going forward with Wheedon's Wonder Woman movie a few years back?

Honestly, on base instinct you'd THINK they MUST hate themselves completely.....but then they hired Goyer and Snyder to be in charge.....so either they're idiots or just legitimately don't give a shit.
*shrug*