Joss Whedon is now helming Justice League movie.

[bastardofmelbourne]

"Amazing fight cinematography"?! Did we watch the same turgid, smoke filled CG clusterfuck that was BvS's finale? Or the pitiful, senseless/idiotic, bizarrely brief actual 'versus' many people have waited decades to see on the big screen?

...well, yeah.




They kick the shit outta anything from the Nolan trilogy. And most of the fights in Marvel films, come to mention it.

I know you might not like anything else Snyder does, but when it comes to people punching other people, the man's Beethoven.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

"a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent"

And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel.

Cue Fry and 'Not sure if... ' squint. You kinda come across like a parody of a YT comments section, hence the comparison with another seemingly self-confessed all-or-nothing grimdark-er here.

Well I suppose if you are an angsty adolescent boy, then maybe you have reason to see any of those things as a positive. But Zack Snyder isn't one of those, ergo why I find him such a disturbing and/or incompetent and unintelligent creator (though to be slightly fair he was obviously enabled; it's not as if BvS prolapsed out into public without Warner seeing it first... and Snyder was shooting whatever Terrio and Goyer 'wrote').

I figured that filming would have been more or less done by now? How much difference can he really make at this stage? In the editing perhaps but then I think that would most certainly be for the best as that has been the most glaring flaw I've seen in both Snyder's previous DC film's.

Snyder didn't edit either of those, though, it's a guy called David Brenner, who - after looking at his CV - I don't feel's had a film worth a damn since 1994's The River Wild...

Justice League has the same hall full of caffeinated monkeys 'writer' as both BvS and MoS - and there's no amount of editing that can deal with a bad script, unless of course Joss just cuts all the dialogue out and makes a silent movie out of it... which I'd applaud for sheer audacity (then again after recently seeing La La Land I think I want all films to be musicals, so I'd go for a savage re-cut and call it Justice League: The Musical. Momoa's Aquaman and Amber Heard's Mera 'under da sea', singing to each other? who doesn't want to see/hear that! it'd give the DCEU a distinct identity, after long last, and would certainly differentiate it from the MCU. the Bats vs Supes fight would've been awesome as a conflicted duet, too... ).

If Joss brings along one of his semi-regular editing collaborators, then sure, maybe he'll be able smooth the creases out, so to speak. But from the looks of it, Snyder being absent from the editing room won't be making much of a difference.

I'm 24 years old and I still listen to Thrash Metal, does listening to Thrash Metal make me angsty?




There are things I find cool and badass and there are things I find lame, I just find this whole trend of having Superhero things be more zany, whacky, retro, and funny like Batman Brave and the Bold and Guardians of the Galaxy to be lame.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

According to one article Whedon's influence will be relatively minimal.

This was the exact reason he quit Marvel, too much interference from the higher ups.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

snip

Oh, man! I unironically like Dethklok too!

/high five

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

He's not "helming" the movie, they brought him in at the last minute to do a few reshoots. The movie is well into post-production.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

snip

Oh, man! I unironically like Dethklok too!

/high five

Fuck yeah I unironically like Dethklok, I like the show and the music:

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

He's not "helming" the movie, they brought him in at the last minute to do a few reshoots. The movie is well into post-production.

I chose the word "helming" and not "directing" for that reason, but I guess helming is not the right word either?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

He's not "helming" the movie, they brought him in at the last minute to do a few reshoots. The movie is well into post-production.

I chose the word "helming" and not "directing" for that reason, but I guess helming is not the right word either?

It's ambiguous enough that most people seem to be mistaking one for the other.

 

[shrekfan246]

"a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent"

And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel.

Cue Fry and 'Not sure if... ' squint. You kinda come across like a parody of a YT comments section, hence the comparison with another seemingly self-confessed all-or-nothing grimdark-er here.

Well I suppose if you are an angsty adolescent boy, then maybe you have reason to see any of those things as a positive.

Eh, I don't think that's a fair judgment call to make, mate. It's entirely possible to not be an angsty teen and also like "edgy", grimdark stuff. In fact, hi, that's me. I may not be as far into it as OP here, since I also like other stuff, but everyone has their preferences, y'know? Especially since the requirement for something to be deemed "grimdark" these days is so hilariously low that I wouldn't be surprised if some people would accuse My Little Pony of being it. (The part about MLP is a joke.)

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

They kick the shit outta anything from the Nolan trilogy. And most of the fights in Marvel films, come to mention it.

I know you might not like anything else Snyder does, but when it comes to people punching other people, the man's Beethoven.

I don't feel a comparison with Nolan's trilogy is fair, given their intentions were so different; the Arkham-esque warehouse scene - murderous-moron Batman aside - is well done, but I would never have wanted to see it in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight.

The action's not great in the trilogy, sure, and the final fight/brawl with Bane in Rises is a rather terrible sequence (I think Rises is a pretty bad film, so it's par for that film's course). But the tone of the trilogy didn't necessitate hyper self-conscious 'cool' set-piece scraps. It has different priorities.

As for Marvel films? Eh, whilst I think there are still too many cuts, the sense of tension and meaning (re characters doing thing, as opposed to Snyder's dead-eyed icons) in, say, the Cap/Winter Soldier highway fight is superior to anything in MoS or BvS, particularly when the whole scene's under scrutiny; music and sound effects are superbly used in that, all to emphasise the moment the mask comes off. Action serves character narrative.

...maybe the MCU just does good action involving Cap and Bucky, as the staircase sequence in Civil War's incredible, too; the sense of weight/momentum, the choreography reinforcing the differences between the two characters, and so on. Civil War's final fight and the airport scene aren't bad, either.

And I feel Netflix Daredevil S1 out-Batman's Batman in a few scenes (the carpark rescue comes to mind), as well as stages its own gruelingly brilliant action in the hallway sequence.

If you're fine with Snyder just smashing things up, then fair enough. But cinematic action is much more than just things smashing together and things falling down, and I don't feel Snyder comprehends that. His action is fetishistic, frankly, bringing to mind Michael Bay's Bayhem (a director I much prefer, oddly enough. he has none of Zack's faux profundity).

Eh, I don't think that's a fair judgment call to make, mate. It's entirely possible to not be an angsty teen and also like "edgy", grimdark stuff. In fact, hi, that's me. I may not be as far into it as OP here, since I also like other stuff, but everyone has their preferences, y'know?

Absolutely, and in a way I'd prefer some of the MCU films dialed back the humour a little. But the comparison to YT comments was surely quite fair ("And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel"), and variety is the spice of life.

 

[Cicada 5]

"a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent"

And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel.

Cue Fry and 'Not sure if... ' squint. You kinda come across like a parody of a YT comments section, hence the comparison with another seemingly self-confessed all-or-nothing grimdark-er here.

Well I suppose if you are an angsty adolescent boy, then maybe you have reason to see any of those things as a positive. But Zack Snyder isn't one of those, ergo why I find him such a disturbing and/or incompetent and unintelligent creator (though to be slightly fair he was obviously enabled; it's not as if BvS prolapsed out into public without Warner seeing it first... and Snyder was shooting whatever Terrio and Goyer 'wrote').

I figured that filming would have been more or less done by now? How much difference can he really make at this stage? In the editing perhaps but then I think that would most certainly be for the best as that has been the most glaring flaw I've seen in both Snyder's previous DC film's.

Snyder didn't edit either of those, though, it's a guy called David Brenner, who - after looking at his CV - I don't feel's had a film worth a damn since 1994's The River Wild...

Justice League has the same hall full of caffeinated monkeys 'writer' as both BvS and MoS - and there's no amount of editing that can deal with a bad script, unless of course Joss just cuts all the dialogue out and makes a silent movie out of it... which I'd applaud for sheer audacity (then again after recently seeing La La Land I think I want all films to be musicals, so I'd go for a savage re-cut and call it Justice League: The Musical. Momoa's Aquaman and Amber Heard's Mera 'under da sea', singing to each other? who doesn't want to see/hear that! it'd give the DCEU a distinct identity, after long last, and would certainly differentiate it from the MCU. the Bats vs Supes fight would've been awesome as a conflicted duet, too... ).

If Joss brings along one of his semi-regular editing collaborators, then sure, maybe he'll be able smooth the creases out, so to speak. But from the looks of it, Snyder being absent from the editing room won't be making much of a difference.

The DCEU's identity is distinct enough. If anything people are asking for it to either be more like the MCU or the CW'verse.

 

[Cicada 5]

They kick the shit outta anything from the Nolan trilogy. And most of the fights in Marvel films, come to mention it.

I know you might not like anything else Snyder does, but when it comes to people punching other people, the man's Beethoven.

I don't feel a comparison with Nolan's trilogy is fair, given their intentions were so different; the Arkham-esque warehouse scene - murderous-moron Batman aside - is well done, but I would never have wanted to see it in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight.

The action's not great in the trilogy, sure, and the final fight/brawl with Bane in Rises is a rather terrible sequence (I think Rises is a pretty bad film, so it's par for that film's course). But the tone of the trilogy didn't necessitate hyper self-conscious 'cool' set-piece scraps. It has different priorities.

As for Marvel films? Eh, whilst I think there are still too many cuts, the sense of tension and meaning (re characters doing thing, as opposed to Snyder's dead-eyed icons) in, say, the Cap/Winter Soldier highway fight is superior to anything in MoS or BvS, particularly when the whole scene's under scrutiny; music and sound effects are superbly used in that, all to emphasise the moment the mask comes off. Action serves character narrative.

...maybe the MCU just does good action involving Cap and Bucky, as the staircase sequence in Civil War's incredible, too; the sense of weight/momentum, the choreography reinforcing the differences between the two characters, and so on. Civil War's final fight and the airport scene aren't bad, either.

And I feel Netflix Daredevil S1 out-Batman's Batman in a few scenes (the carpark rescue comes to mind), as well as stages its own gruelingly brilliant action in the hallway sequence.

If you're fine with Snyder just smashing things up, then fair enough. But cinematic action is much more than just things smashing together and things falling down, and I don't feel Snyder comprehends that. His action is fetishistic, frankly, bringing to mind Michael Bay's Bayhem (a director I much prefer, oddly enough. he has none of Zack's faux profundity).

Eh, I don't think that's a fair judgment call to make, mate. It's entirely possible to not be an angsty teen and also like "edgy", grimdark stuff. In fact, hi, that's me. I may not be as far into it as OP here, since I also like other stuff, but everyone has their preferences, y'know?

Absolutely, and in a way I'd prefer some of the MCU films dialed back the humour a little. But the comparison to YT comments was surely quite fair ("And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel"), and variety is the spice of life.

I feel there's not weight to the fight scenes in the MCU. They're basically like ballet scenes in that it is way to obvious they're choreographed. The fight scenes in the DCEU feel like fight scenes and not just glorified dances. But that's just me.

 

[hermes]

They kick the shit outta anything from the Nolan trilogy. And most of the fights in Marvel films, come to mention it.

I know you might not like anything else Snyder does, but when it comes to people punching other people, the man's Beethoven.

I don't feel a comparison with Nolan's trilogy is fair, given their intentions were so different; the Arkham-esque warehouse scene - murderous-moron Batman aside - is well done, but I would never have wanted to see it in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight.

The action's not great in the trilogy, sure, and the final fight/brawl with Bane in Rises is a rather terrible sequence (I think Rises is a pretty bad film, so it's par for that film's course). But the tone of the trilogy didn't necessitate hyper self-conscious 'cool' set-piece scraps. It has different priorities.

As for Marvel films? Eh, whilst I think there are still too many cuts, the sense of tension and meaning (re characters doing thing, as opposed to Snyder's dead-eyed icons) in, say, the Cap/Winter Soldier highway fight is superior to anything in MoS or BvS, particularly when the whole scene's under scrutiny; music and sound effects are superbly used in that, all to emphasise the moment the mask comes off. Action serves character narrative.

...maybe the MCU just does good action involving Cap and Bucky, as the staircase sequence in Civil War's incredible, too; the sense of weight/momentum, the choreography reinforcing the differences between the two characters, and so on. Civil War's final fight and the airport scene aren't bad, either.

And I feel Netflix Daredevil S1 out-Batman's Batman in a few scenes (the carpark rescue comes to mind), as well as stages its own gruelingly brilliant action in the hallway sequence.

If you're fine with Snyder just smashing things up, then fair enough. But cinematic action is much more than just things smashing together and things falling down, and I don't feel Snyder comprehends that. His action is fetishistic, frankly, bringing to mind Michael Bay's Bayhem (a director I much prefer, oddly enough. he has none of Zack's faux profundity).

Eh, I don't think that's a fair judgment call to make, mate. It's entirely possible to not be an angsty teen and also like "edgy", grimdark stuff. In fact, hi, that's me. I may not be as far into it as OP here, since I also like other stuff, but everyone has their preferences, y'know?

Absolutely, and in a way I'd prefer some of the MCU films dialed back the humour a little. But the comparison to YT comments was surely quite fair ("And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel"), and variety is the spice of life.

I feel there's not weight to the fight scenes in the MCU. They're basically like ballet scenes in that it is way to obvious they're choreographed. The fight scenes in the DCEU feel like fight scenes and not just glorified dances. But that's just me.

You must be talking about THE Batman scene or Superman vs Zod fight in Man of Steel, because I can't recall any other fight scene that didn't felt choreographed as f*ck (and don't even get me started on Suicide Squad)

 

[Cicada 5]

They kick the shit outta anything from the Nolan trilogy. And most of the fights in Marvel films, come to mention it.

I know you might not like anything else Snyder does, but when it comes to people punching other people, the man's Beethoven.

I don't feel a comparison with Nolan's trilogy is fair, given their intentions were so different; the Arkham-esque warehouse scene - murderous-moron Batman aside - is well done, but I would never have wanted to see it in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight.

The action's not great in the trilogy, sure, and the final fight/brawl with Bane in Rises is a rather terrible sequence (I think Rises is a pretty bad film, so it's par for that film's course). But the tone of the trilogy didn't necessitate hyper self-conscious 'cool' set-piece scraps. It has different priorities.

As for Marvel films? Eh, whilst I think there are still too many cuts, the sense of tension and meaning (re characters doing thing, as opposed to Snyder's dead-eyed icons) in, say, the Cap/Winter Soldier highway fight is superior to anything in MoS or BvS, particularly when the whole scene's under scrutiny; music and sound effects are superbly used in that, all to emphasise the moment the mask comes off. Action serves character narrative.

...maybe the MCU just does good action involving Cap and Bucky, as the staircase sequence in Civil War's incredible, too; the sense of weight/momentum, the choreography reinforcing the differences between the two characters, and so on. Civil War's final fight and the airport scene aren't bad, either.

And I feel Netflix Daredevil S1 out-Batman's Batman in a few scenes (the carpark rescue comes to mind), as well as stages its own gruelingly brilliant action in the hallway sequence.

If you're fine with Snyder just smashing things up, then fair enough. But cinematic action is much more than just things smashing together and things falling down, and I don't feel Snyder comprehends that. His action is fetishistic, frankly, bringing to mind Michael Bay's Bayhem (a director I much prefer, oddly enough. he has none of Zack's faux profundity).

Eh, I don't think that's a fair judgment call to make, mate. It's entirely possible to not be an angsty teen and also like "edgy", grimdark stuff. In fact, hi, that's me. I may not be as far into it as OP here, since I also like other stuff, but everyone has their preferences, y'know?

Absolutely, and in a way I'd prefer some of the MCU films dialed back the humour a little. But the comparison to YT comments was surely quite fair ("And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel"), and variety is the spice of life.

I feel there's not weight to the fight scenes in the MCU. They're basically like ballet scenes in that it is way to obvious they're choreographed. The fight scenes in the DCEU feel like fight scenes and not just glorified dances. But that's just me.

You must be talking about THE Batman scene or Superman vs Zod fight in Man of Steel, because I can't recall any other fight scene that didn't felt choreographed as f*ck (and don't even get me started on Suicide Squad)

Nothing in MoS or BvS felt choreographed to me. In fact, I've heard a lot of people claim the opposite in that they felt to chaotic. To each their own.

 

[hermes]

...

I feel there's not weight to the fight scenes in the MCU. They're basically like ballet scenes in that it is way to obvious they're choreographed. The fight scenes in the DCEU feel like fight scenes and not just glorified dances. But that's just me.

You must be talking about THE Batman scene or Superman vs Zod fight in Man of Steel, because I can't recall any other fight scene that didn't felt choreographed as f*ck (and don't even get me started on Suicide Squad)

Nothing in MoS or BvS felt choreographed to me. In fact, I've heard a lot of people claim the opposite in that they felt to chaotic. To each their own.

Ok, maybe choreographed is not the right word, but fake. Like they had no real impact. There are exceptions, like Superman vs Zod, but since those are just CGI dummies duking at each other, it makes as much sense as evaluating Hulk vs Iron-man.

This is not a Marvel vs DC thing. I believe they are both guilty of it. Hollywood in general, despite its millions of dollars, for the most part can't hold a candle to Asian action choreography.

 

[Souplex]

So Whedon is taking over for Snyder?
While Whedon isn't as much of a hack as Snyder, he still is a hack.
The only reason Avengers was passable was because it barely smelled of him.

 

[Natemans]

This time the point of this thread is to ONLY focus on discussing about the Justice League movie and Joss Wheadon now helming it. I thought the Snyder situation of him leaving the director's chair because his daughter commited suicide was something so personal that I thought I had no buisness in even partaking on it out of respect for the man. I understand his grief and why he left and I offer my condolences all the same.

Now on to the topic I was TRYING to get across.

Joss Whedon is now helming the Justice League movie, and I really do not like the choice, I mean I know I have been told that he's only now editing director for post production but still, they could not find anyone else better than Whedon? I mean I liked the first Avengers, but the Avengers 2 utterly dissapointed me and gattered me and showed off the Whedons flaws.

I mean they could have had Geoff Johns helming the project considering he now has a hand in these DC movies, heck any great writer from Comic Books themselves, but no its Joss Whedon, because he made Avengers.

Avengers 2 also had a bunch of studio interference from Ike Perlmutter. Avengers 2 is why Kevin Feige doesn't answer to him anymore because Perlmutter is a fucking idiot. Avengers 2 was not all Whedon's fault, and even though it was average it's better than the 3 DCEU films.

But there are people that could be a much better choice, I mean imagine if the guy that did Logan took over the helm?

Honestly I loved Logan, but I don't want James Manigold to work on Justice League. Kinda way too big for his ambition. My choice has always been George Miller, but Whedon's not a bad one imo.

As for Age of Ultron, yeah, some of it was kinda too much overwritten or major studio interference between him and Marvel over what the film should have.

 

[Natemans]

I gotta ask... Are you B-Cell? There's a lot of overlap.

Joss Whedon is now helming the Justice League movie...

Not really. He's seeing a presumably mostly shot production through to the end.

and I really do not like the choice...

Who cares. You felt you had to make a thread to tell the world that? Again?

I mean I know I have been told that he's only now editing director for post production but still, they could not find anyone else better than Whedon?

No, and yes, depending on your subjective opinion of his and a billion other people's qualities.

I mean I liked the first Avengers, but the Avengers 2 utterly dissapointed me and gattered me and showed off the Whedons flaws.

That's two films. What a body of work to judge from... On the bright side you've learnt to spell his name right, so kudos.

...but no its Joss Whedon, because he made Avengers

Or maybe because he made an absolute ton of stuff people like, he's got decades of experience in various mediums under his belt, and by lots of peoples reckoning (people in 'the biz') he's more than proved himself to be someone capable of dealing with a difficult, last minute situation as this.

I think Snyder's a variously incompetent hack of a director; a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent with a love of iconography and a surface understanding of anything beyond or under that. And yeah, I'm including Watchmen in that, too - I've not seen a single thing from Synder that leads me to believe he has any worthwhile talents (I used to like - and defend by calling it a misunderstood gem - Sucker Punch, but it's been so long since I've seen it that I don't trust my old thoughts on it, particularly as I've since seen other Snyder films). And no, setting up ridiculous/fancy lookin' slo-mo sequences doesn't count as a worthwhile talent. Cinema's a lot more than tricks and ticks.

So I had no faith in Justice League at all, particularly after the fascinating creative disaster that was BvS, and how obvious it was that the vissionless DCEU was desperately adjusting the tone after the reaction to that 'film'. Can Joss rescue Justice League, in my eyes? No, probably not, given Snyder's fingerprints would be smeared all over the story and direction. I'm not sure if we know how much production really was completed already, and that will change what Joss is able to do/not do.

A quick bit of Googling reveals that Whedon has already been collaborating on Justice League for months now. Apparently he was writing for the reshoots that Snyder was filming until recently.

Really? Joss Whedon writing reshoots for a Zack Snyder film? Yeesh, that's not something I feel will end well... Who knows, maybe Whedon could act as a tonal balance and this could be the start of a wonderful partnership, at least as far as the hitherto inanely hapless DCEU is concerned.

If there was some way to combine Snyder's amazing fight cinematography with Whedon's wit, that would be ideal. I'm hoping that's what we'll get, at least with Justice League.

"Amazing fight cinematography"?! Did we watch the same turgid, smoke filled CG clusterfuck that was BvS's finale? Or the pitiful, senseless/idiotic, bizarrely brief actual 'versus' many people have waited decades to see on the big screen?

"a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent"

And that what makes it cool, but now its gonna be lame now that its gonna be more like Marvel. I like DBZ when it was Grimdark and Brutal (Even though it did had humor that did made me laugh). Now they made it all lame with Dragon Ball Super.

I don't find that cool. That phrase "a grimdark masculinist violence obsessed adolescent" sounds more like an immature guy who obsesses with muscles or grimdark action instead of you know good storytelling or characters. Also I wouldn't compare either of the two companies with the Dragonball franchise. In terms of comparison, Marvel is more like the kind of comics that people like reading as if it was a mix of the 1960s or some of the best eras of the comics. For the DCEU films, its more trying to capture the gritty dumbness of the '90s. I think Whedon could help the movie immensely with the post production.

 

[TakerFoxx]

Good Lord, after Avengers people couldn't praise Whedon enough and go on about how he's the best person to handle these ensemble movies, but when Age of Ultron was sort of meh suddenly he's a hack and the worst possible replacement and on and on and on. What fickle creatures comic fans be.