Joss Whedon: Tony Stark as Ultron's Creator "More Interesting"

[Callate]

I'm entirely okay with this. Introducing Pym at this particular intersection wouldn't lend any particular emotional weight or responsibility to Ultron's origin. With a few exceptions, Whedon seems to know what he's doing; I think that's probably the case here.

Also, I'm still less than certain the Ant-Man movie isn't going to be the new Marvel cinematic universe's first actual stumble, so anchoring oneself to it, even in a relatively intangible way, probably wouldn't be the best call.

 

[Lightknight]

Makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps Pym would have made sense if Ant-Man already come out and been a success, but since it hasn't hasn't, it's a lot more satisfying to have the threat flow from the themes and characters that have already been established. And even then, Stark is clearly the "robotics guy" of the series, so Ultron does flow a bit more logically from him.

Yeah, Stark actually does make sense here. I agree with Whedon on this pretty fully.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

I agree with the reasoning, however, when I mentioned Avengers 2 to my mother, she went online and found a plot summary and the first words out of her mouth where "Oh so Tony Stark is screwing up again." She immediately lost all interest in the film. Ultron is a wonderful screw up for Tony Stark and makes perfect sense, but Tony Stark has screwed up a few times already and him screwing up again lessens the impact.

In that case, maybe it would have been a better idea to have somebody else screwing up instead.

and technically Tony screws up during civil war as well (even if he is kinda-sorta right)

 

[Ukomba]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

We've actually seen 4, they confirmed not too long ago that Lokis staff from The Avengers contained an infinity stone (Im assuming its the Mind stone because of the brainwashing stuff). Id bet that one of the last remaining stones will be in Wakanda in Black Panther, no idea when the last stone will appear though. Its entirely possible that Thanos already has one

I'd go so far as to suggest that Thanos has to already have one considering that he's taken up this quest and that he is considered a powerful being in the Universe. If he had truly been coveting them and they were just lying around (say...in an abandoned ruin on a random planet completely unprotected) but he didn't have any, that would call into question his capabilities.

I know they've come out and said that the Mind Stone was in Loki's staff, but why the heck would Thanos give it to him? Does not make sense...

It is also possible that Thanos didn't know about the stones + gauntlet yet. The mind gem on it's own might not have been all that useful to a guy who could make others do what he wants through shear strength. It's possible he learned of a source of immense energy and instantaneous transportation from Red Skull and just wanted that. It would mesh with the comics where he comes to earth the first time specifically for the power of the Cosmic Cube (the 6 infinity Gems having not appeared in the comics until the second Thanos war storyline).

In the movie, it could then be that he learned of the 6 stones and their true importance when the Collector put out the bounty on them (and possibly gauntlet) after getting the Aether at the end of Thor The Dark World, setting up the Guardians movie where Thanos is now seen hunting them.

 

[Clankenbeard]

I like it. I like the Ultron character better if his brain is a carbon copy of Pym's messed up head. But, I'll survive if he is simply the product of some messed-up programming.

Thanos has a gem already? Maybe. If he wants the gems, why doesn't he just get up out of his floaty rock chair and go get them. He wiped out his entire moon population. He dated the Grim Reaper. Spend 10 minutes and go get your glowy rocks, ya deadbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0K436vUM4w

 

[faefrost]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

I thought we had seen 4? Hmmm?
Cube = Space gem
Aether = reality Gem
Orb = Power Gem
Blue Egg Shaped gem in Loki's scepter = Mind Gem (not 100% confirmed, but enough hints and logical connections at this point.)

With the betting money being the Soul Gem will appear in or more likely turn out to be The Eye of Agamoto in Dr. Strange. The Time Gem remains any bodies guess. Although it could open up some possibilities involving or following up on Civil War. In the comics the Captain America Civil War story arc involved some Dr. Doom time machine tech. Since Doom is not an option it would make sense. Plus Captain America is the time lost or out of time character, so the more likely to play with the Time theme as something other than a cheap Star Trek story.

 

[Ukomba]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

I thought we had seen 4? Hmmm?
Cube = Space gem
Aether = reality Gem
Orb = Power Gem
Blue Egg Shaped gem in Loki's scepter = Mind Gem (not 100% confirmed, but enough hints and logical connections at this point.)

With the betting money being the Soul Gem will appear in or more likely turn out to be The Eye of Agamoto in Dr. Strange. The Time Gem remains any bodies guess. Although it could open up some possibilities involving or following up on Civil War. In the comics the Captain America Civil War story arc involved some Dr. Doom time machine tech. Since Doom is not an option it would make sense. Plus Captain America is the time lost or out of time character, so the more likely to play with the Time theme as something other than a cheap Star Trek story.

My guess is the Time Gem will involve Kang the Conqueror in some way.

 

[faefrost]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

We've actually seen 4, they confirmed not too long ago that Lokis staff from The Avengers contained an infinity stone (Im assuming its the Mind stone because of the brainwashing stuff). Id bet that one of the last remaining stones will be in Wakanda in Black Panther, no idea when the last stone will appear though. Its entirely possible that Thanos already has one

I'd go so far as to suggest that Thanos has to already have one considering that he's taken up this quest and that he is considered a powerful being in the Universe. If he had truly been coveting them and they were just lying around (say...in an abandoned ruin on a random planet completely unprotected) but he didn't have any, that would call into question his capabilities.

I know they've come out and said that the Mind Stone was in Loki's staff, but why the heck would Thanos give it to him? Does not make sense...

It makes perfect sense. He leveraged and gambled one stone to gain another. He knows where the mind stone is. He can get it back at any time. Thanos is a grand chess player. Just as he knows where the Aether is and can get it at any time. Remember in Thor 2 they hinted that it is dangerous to keep them together. He is getting the stones found and putting them in places where he can reach when he is ready for them.

 

[faefrost]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

I thought we had seen 4? Hmmm?
Cube = Space gem
Aether = reality Gem
Orb = Power Gem
Blue Egg Shaped gem in Loki's scepter = Mind Gem (not 100% confirmed, but enough hints and logical connections at this point.)

With the betting money being the Soul Gem will appear in or more likely turn out to be The Eye of Agamoto in Dr. Strange. The Time Gem remains any bodies guess. Although it could open up some possibilities involving or following up on Civil War. In the comics the Captain America Civil War story arc involved some Dr. Doom time machine tech. Since Doom is not an option it would make sense. Plus Captain America is the time lost or out of time character, so the more likely to play with the Time theme as something other than a cheap Star Trek story.

My guess is the Time Gem will involve Kang the Conqueror in some way.

That would make sense. I would love to see Kang realized visually (although in the comics he always makes my head hurt.) if Kang is in play then the Time Gem will likely show up in GotG 2 and or Captain Marvel. Kang opens the door for the Kree / "Chitauri" war and the Celestial Madona story arc. And Mantis is really better known as a Guardian these days than as an Avenger.

 

[VoidWanderer]

I prefer a joint creation by both as it explains his warped sensibility and why he has weapons.

I can just imagine the conversation between Tony and Hank...

TS: Hey Hank, so I am thinking about working on another AI

HP: Sounds fun, I'd be glad to help.

(Several weeks later)

TS: Finally finished, welcome to the Avengers.

HP: Thanks Tony, shall we turn Ultron on?

TS: You can do the honors.

*Click*

HP: Uh, Tony. Did you give Ultron red eyes?

TS: No, why?

HP: No reason, oh I have just remembered something. I have an ... appointment to get to. Bye!

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

It would have been better if the stone in the scepter was green, yellow or orange, but considering that the staff appeared in the Infinity War teaser trailer, I would say that it is pretty much confirmed at this point. Besides, if another infinity stone was at stake, I'm pretty sure that Thanos would use one of his greatest tools to try an obtain it, even if he was, and did, take a huge risk.

Then it's proof as an Infinity stone would be absolute. But Thanos' mastery of science and technology makes Stark (and Asgard) look like children with their first Lego set. Building something such as the mind control scepter would have been an easy goal.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I thought we had seen 4? Hmmm?
Cube = Space gem
Aether = reality Gem
Orb = Power Gem
Blue Egg Shaped gem in Loki's scepter = Mind Gem (not 100% confirmed, but enough hints and logical connections at this point.)

6 stones, six different colours. The blue stone is the Tesseract. The staff can't be one.

 

[DoctorM]

I'm not a Marvel comics fanboy, so who created Ultron is immaterial to me, but Joss's argument is flawed.
It makes the assumption that Avengers 2 was required to have Ultron in it (which I guess might have been a Marvel Studios mandate).

But wouldn't it have just made sense to hold him over for another film once Hank Pym had been introduced?
I always assumed Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet was going to be the plot line for Avengers 2. It was teased enough. How long are they going to drag out that story line?

Seriously, the first stone was introduced four years ago already. Casual audience might get a bit lost.

 

[K12]

I'm basically on board with this whole thing with one caveat.

I think it's worth Marvel trying to limit the amount of significance that Tony Stark has in the Avengers universe (I also hope that Agent Carter's future seasons aren't too Howard-technology heavy) since they've only got like three or four more films with him in it.

The Avengers in the MCU has still yet to feel like the team is important over and above the members of that team

I'm not that worried about this I'm reasonably confident have Marvel have thought alot about the transitional phase. We'll see

 

[Westonbirt]

He's completely right. The MCU has 2 hours every few years, not a monthly 20 pages. Mainstream audiences will not get what the hell is happening, it's better to let it happen in the quite small environment already put in place than to let it explode all over the place. And besides, Tony is the fulcrum around which the MCU has turned, both in story and exposure/revenue.

 

[Westonbirt]

I'm basically on board with this whole thing with one caveat.

I think it's worth Marvel trying to limit the amount of significance that Tony Stark has in the Avengers universe (I also hope that Agent Carter's future seasons aren't too Howard-technology heavy) since they've only got like three or four more films with him in it.

The Avengers in the MCU has still yet to feel like the team is important over and above the members of that team

I'm not that worried about this I'm reasonably confident have Marvel have thought alot about the transitional phase. We'll see

Well Tony himself will eventually be replaced (By Pots or Rhodes, still split on this...), but that doesn't mean he must be phased out slowly.

The most sound fan-theory I've heard is that Tony creates Ultron to defend the world now that SHIELD is down, and then his failure to control it leads him to support the MCU equivalent to the Registration Act and into Civil War. Then he will probably lose again, or maybe barely win - but either way, he will lose enough confidence in his own judgement and things to hang up the armour, thereby completing his bafflingly long character arc.

If it's remotely like this, he will go out with a bang, with a lot of impact. Now, yes, he wont be there after that, but people will - I hope - be invested enough in the story to get behind the successors. And sure, he's huge, but Quill is very popular, and so is the Captain. I think the cast has all around really managed to rise to Tony's level (or at least close enough to give him a slap).

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I wonder if Ultron will be powered by an Infinity stone? There's six in the collection, and we have only seen three so far.

We've actually seen 4, they confirmed not too long ago that Lokis staff from The Avengers contained an infinity stone (Im assuming its the Mind stone because of the brainwashing stuff). Id bet that one of the last remaining stones will be in Wakanda in Black Panther, no idea when the last stone will appear though. Its entirely possible that Thanos already has one

I'd go so far as to suggest that Thanos has to already have one considering that he's taken up this quest and that he is considered a powerful being in the Universe. If he had truly been coveting them and they were just lying around (say...in an abandoned ruin on a random planet completely unprotected) but he didn't have any, that would call into question his capabilities.

I know they've come out and said that the Mind Stone was in Loki's staff, but why the heck would Thanos give it to him? Does not make sense...

Because Thanos is so confident in his power that he feels he can take it back at any time he deems necessary. I mean he practically let Ronan walk away with the Power gem (albeit not happy about it). He also knows that most organisations who would keep the stones from him dont have the stones to use them themselves.

Also any opportunity for him to show off to Death would be an added bonus
Or Thanos possibly has the Time gem already, making this all irrelevant to him, as he can let everyone else play around, while he has all the time in the universe