Just how bad was the New 52 DC?

[Kolby Jack]

Superboy was actually an okay character who heroically sacrificed himself to save Superman and Supergirl, but was then replaced by an evil lookalike from the future without anyone noticing (not sure how that played out but there doesn't seem to be a Superboy in Rebirth because Superman's son Jon is going to be taking up that mantle.).

Superboy defeated his evil doppelganger... somehow. I don't quite remember how, but it did involve a multiverse worth of Superboys. And yeah, he's also missing as of Rebirth.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing Conner for a while now. The new "Superboy" looks to be Jon Kent, which I'm fine with. The story of his inconsistent powers and the fact that he's so young is interesting. I'm eagerly awaiting Super Sons to see how he clashes with Damian.

They may have erased some fan favourite characters, however they also cleaned out a lot of unnesessary clutter and rubbish. A lot of people may be annoyed at losing Wally West(who is back now by the way) but there are probably a hundred other characters gone which no body misses.

You make it sound like they either planned Wally's eventual return or realized it was a mistake on their own. They only undid it because people got so loudly annoyed. And while the New 52 did dump a lot of baggage that had built up, it did it in such a messy way by having certain past events be canon and others not, and very poorly laying that all out for their writers, which made for a lot of inconsistencies. A lot of editorial changes they made over the course of the new 52 were just damage control.

There's nothing wrong with liking the new 52 as it did have a lot of great stories, but for a lot of prior readership, it really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Rebirth seems like the best way to fix things, because it's still the new 52 world, but they're reintroducing things that should never have been left on the cutting room floor. I guess if you liked New 52 Superman, he kind of got shafted... so that stinks. But ya know, omelette, eggs.

 

[KissingSunlight]

I didn't read a wide selection of the New 52. However, they did seriously messed up my favorite 52 comic. Batwoman. I think most of you are familiar with what happened. The editorial staff told the writer that Batwoman shouldn't be allowed to get married in the story. Of course, it didn't help matters that Batwoman was gay. So, it seemed like the DC editorial staff was against gay marriage.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

I didn't see most of it, but the small section I did read (Green Lantern) was screwed up so badly.

You know what's a good idea for Green Lantern? Messing up all the corps and having the GLs limit ring usage throughout the universe. You know, limit the thing that everyone likes seeing in the comics? So many other things were messed up and it just made me drop it entirely.

And the funny thing is? You could tell that the writers saw this thing coming. Because they tried to end the story on a high note before this all went down.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I didn't see most of it, but the small section I did read (Green Lantern) was screwed up so badly.

You know what's a good idea for Green Lantern? Messing up all the corps and having the GLs limit ring usage throughout the universe. You know, limit the thing that everyone likes seeing in the comics? So many other things were messed up and it just made me drop it entirely.

And the funny thing is? You could tell that the writers saw this thing coming. Because they tried to end the story on a high note before this all went down.

Define what you mean by limiting the Ring's usage?

As in are the rings run on "ammo" in a sense?

The use of the rings powers are not as crazy (where you can spawn anything of your imagination like a truck or a fist)

Or they rarely use it at all?

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I admit I never got into the New 52 after all I've heard about it... from what I could tell it's gone back to the 90s level of story telling, so-called "darker and edgier for the sake of darker and edgier". Characterization just felt... wrong, and it all seems... just pointless.

But don't take my word for it, this guy has a list of reasons why the DCNU was bad:

 

[King Billi]

They may have erased some fan favourite characters, however they also cleaned out a lot of unnesessary clutter and rubbish. A lot of people may be annoyed at losing Wally West(who is back now by the way) but there are probably a hundred other characters gone which no body misses.

You make it sound like they either planned Wally's eventual return or realized it was a mistake on their own. They only undid it because people got so loudly annoyed. And while the New 52 did dump a lot of baggage that had built up, it did it in such a messy way by having certain past events be canon and others not, and very poorly laying that all out for their writers, which made for a lot of inconsistencies. A lot of editorial changes they made over the course of the new 52 were just damage control.

There's nothing wrong with liking the new 52 as it did have a lot of great stories, but for a lot of prior readership, it really threw the baby out with the bathwater. Rebirth seems like the best way to fix things, because it's still the new 52 world, but they're reintroducing things that should never have been left on the cutting room floor. I guess if you liked New 52 Superman, he kind of got shafted... so that stinks. But ya know, omelette, eggs.

It's not so much thinking that they had it planned to bring Wally back than it is just expecting it as an eventual inevitability of the medium, nothing stays gone forever after all.

And while I will say that what I've read of Rebirth thus far has been pretty good I also got a very familiar vibe from it in that very meta textual way DC often gets with its big event crossovers. A certain sense of "we've lost our way but stick with us cause with this new direction we'll soon be back on course."

In reading just a little ways back into the pre 52 I see a similar sentiment was expressed through both 'Infinite Crisis' and 'Final Crisis'. Seems they quite regularly go through these periods of "damage control".

I don't know? Personally the more I read the more I find individual writers and runs matter to me than the broader canon. The most worthwhile stories both of the New 52 and pre 52 are ones which are more easily divorced from any kind of ongoing continuity, it can still be there, it just doesn't effect the tone or direction of the story in question.

 

[King Billi]

I didn't read a wide selection of the New 52. However, they did seriously messed up my favorite 52 comic. Batwoman. I think most of you are familiar with what happened. The editorial staff told the writer that Batwoman shouldn't be allowed to get married in the story. Of course, it didn't help matters that Batwoman was gay. So, it seemed like the DC editorial staff was against gay marriage.

It wouldn't have bothered me as much if JK Williams III had just been able to complete that final story arc, it began compelling enough building on all that had comeband had some great implications set up for its resolution that was all just completely undone by the replacement writer who either didn't know or care how it was originally planned to end.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I haven't read any of it as I don't read comics, but based on Linkara's reviews of Red Hood and the Outlaws (dear God what did they do to Starfire???) and The Culling, I'm not impressed. Although that Forever Evil miniseries I heard about sounded interesting.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Did I read everything that came out of the New 52? Of course not. Did good things come out of the New 52? Absolutely! I liked the first two Justice League arcs, I liked the first World's Finest, Teen Titans and Deathstroke arcs and apparently Harley Quinn and Animal Man were excellent. I recall Blue Beetle being good from issues 1 - 3 but the vol. 1 trade is unacceptably expensive at the moment.

The New 52 did absolutely have some bad stuff though...some really bad stuff. Take Lobo for example; In the second arc of Deathstroke, Rob Liefeld decided Lobo would be a great enemy for Slade to take on. This isn't the Lobo we all know and love and this isn't Faux-Bo who we'll see as the New 52 unfolds: This is a beastial Lobo who is simply a killing machine that can't be stopped. Liefeld's art is bad enough in Deathstroke's second arc but Lobo's origins and motivations seem utterly...skewed. What's worse, when Lobo is killed during Deathstroke...I wanna say 14 (I don't remember the exact issue) we get the plot twist that there is another Lobo! A female Czarnian who is even stronger than the original Lobo! I don't think she's seen or heard from again. Wasn't it enough for Liefeld to ruin Savage Hawkman?

Other than Deathstroke, Teen Titans had a pretty awful second arc...I thought the first arc was really promising and I liked Bunker, a new character on the team. Arc 1 introduced a psychic trash monster who could have been the arc 2 antagonist but NOPE! Arc 2 is going to be a crossover with another team that essentially rips off Battle Royal but with Tron's costume design. Harvest LOOKS awesome but The Culling was just a garbage plot that should have happened much later, after The Titans and Ravagers have had several more arcs under their collective belts. What's worse (and I could be wrong about this since again, I didn't read every new 52 story) The Culling happened either during or right after a Death in the Family/Fight for the Cowl arc which results in Tim Drake being unreasonably busy considering the amount of time he would have had to deal with both events.

Earth 2 was one of my favorite books but I haven't picked up vol. 2 yet. I did want to mention this though as it's really damn annoying. Alan Scott is the Green Lantern in this arc and for the first time, he is portrayed as a homosexual character in a relationship. We meet Alan, we meet Alan's Boyfriend and then on literally the next page the train they're on explodes, killing Alan's boyfriend. It seems like the only characters allowed to have same-sex relationships that last longer than 2 panels are The Bombshells and Harley Quinn. Bunker is another character who is an open homosexual but I don't think he engages in any relationship at all during his time with The Titans. It's probably a smarter move considering the mortality rate but it makes his sexuality seem utterly pointless. I understand that not everybody can be a good ol' asexual like Rorschach or The Question (the first one, not Montoya) but if you're going to give your characters a sexuality why wouldn't you give them a good home life to go back to after each adventure? Thinking about it, Bunker joins The Titans since he was essentially homeless before he met them.

...

Anyway, Rebirth seems alright so far. Slade is still an asshole and I missed Titans 1 and...Titans 1...

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

I didn't see most of it, but the small section I did read (Green Lantern) was screwed up so badly.

You know what's a good idea for Green Lantern? Messing up all the corps and having the GLs limit ring usage throughout the universe. You know, limit the thing that everyone likes seeing in the comics? So many other things were messed up and it just made me drop it entirely.

And the funny thing is? You could tell that the writers saw this thing coming. Because they tried to end the story on a high note before this all went down.

Define what you mean by limiting the Ring's usage?

As in are the rings run on "ammo" in a sense?

The use of the rings powers are not as crazy (where you can spawn anything of your imagination like a truck or a fist)

Or they rarely use it at all?

Oh, sorry, forgot about that incredibly stupid detail. Tried to push the whole thing from my mind, honestly.

So, basically, the writers thought it would be a good idea for power rings to draw from a source and if that source ever runs out, the universe is destroyed.

And, they decided that the embodiments of the corps (Ion, Parallax, etc.) should sacrifice themselves to this source, because apparently the DC universe's "source" was running low.

This, on top of several of the corps going to shit (The Red Lanterns were falling to pieces as Atrocitus turned on the other members, the Green Lanterns policing the other corps as I mentioned, etc), made the Green Lantern comics so, so much worse.

 

[WolfThomas]

Oh. Can I complain about something that annoyed me? Stormwatch. Seriously ughh. I really like the Wildstorm universe (Stormwatch, Planetary, The Authority). Rolling it into the DC universe? It wasn't terrible, just meh.

 

[09philj]

Now this where my opinions are completely different because unlike movies I firmly think Comic Books themsleves has ended up writing some of the absolute worse things in existance:

Superman: At Earth's End (Santa Beared Superman with a completely ridiculous looking gun)
Justice League: Act of God (Catholic Wonder Woman)
Dark Knight Strikes Again (The sex scene between Supes and Wonder Woman)
Spiderman One More Day (Everything)
etc.

You forgot All Star "What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the Goddamn Batman" & Robin.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I haven't read any of it as I don't read comics, but based on Linkara's reviews of Red Hood and the Outlaws (dear God what did they do to Starfire???) and The Culling, I'm not impressed. Although that Forever Evil miniseries I heard about sounded interesting.

Forever Evil is a really good arc, and I highly recommend you pick it up.

Oh. Can I complain about something that annoyed me? Stormwatch. Seriously ughh. I really like the Wildstorm universe (Stormwatch, Planetary, The Authority). Rolling it into the DC universe? It wasn't terrible, just meh.

The Wildstorm stuff like the Authority really just doesn't fit at all into the DC universe. The Authority was supposed to be about a group of untouchable, unchallenged superheroes using their vast power to affect substantial political change on the world around them, unbounded by oversight or international law. It doesn't jive at all with the Justice League, who are vastly more benevolent and restrained.

 

[WolfThomas]

Oh. Can I complain about something that annoyed me? Stormwatch. Seriously ughh. I really like the Wildstorm universe (Stormwatch, Planetary, The Authority). Rolling it into the DC universe? It wasn't terrible, just meh.

The Wildstorm stuff like the Authority really just doesn't fit at all into the DC universe. The Authority was supposed to be about a group of untouchable, unchallenged superheroes using their vast power to affect substantial political change on the world around them, unbounded by oversight or international law. It doesn't jive at all with the Justice League, who are vastly more benevolent and restrained.

Yeah they wanted their cake and to eat it too. But it doesn't work as you said. So they had this neutered secret superhero team. Just meh.

The thing is that other Wildstorm properties would fit much better in the DC universe. The original Stormwatch. Which was a UN backed superhuman police force. That's has the potential for decent conflict. What happens when Hellstrike a former police officer and UN back superhuman combatant kills a supervillain? Does Superman object? Does he object to a police officer shooting an armed criminal? No.

 

[Necrozius]

Justice League Dark's artist just traced Poser art. That made me quit buying comics.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Now this where my opinions are completely different because unlike movies I firmly think Comic Books themsleves has ended up writing some of the absolute worse things in existance:

Superman: At Earth's End (Santa Beared Superman with a completely ridiculous looking gun)
Justice League: Act of God (Catholic Wonder Woman)
Dark Knight Strikes Again (The sex scene between Supes and Wonder Woman)
Spiderman One More Day (Everything)
etc.

You forgot All Star "What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the Goddamn Batman" & Robin.

First of I firmly think the comic is no where near as bad as Dark Knight Strikes Again.

Secondly at least with this comic I can enjoy seeing Jim Lee's art style who is my favorite comic book artist. Sometimes I can put up with Style over Substance so long as the style is awesome looking:

His art style should be the default art style for all Superhero comics.

I would commision a remake of Watchmen's art in Jim Lee's Art Style.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Secondly at least with this comic I can enjoy seeing Jim Lee's art style who is my favorite comic book artist. Sometimes I can put up with Style over Substance so long as the style is awesome looking:

His art style should be the default art style for all Superhero comics.

I would commision a remake of Watchmen's art in Jim Lee's Art Style.

Jim Lee does indeed make Batman look awesome. Hell, he makes everyone look awesome. He managed to make the blue and gray Batsuit cool.

Though you have to wonder why he went a long with what Frank Miller was writing. I mean, he would have had to know what was going on to draw the panels right?

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

By and large it's probably no worse than DC comics was prior in terms of writing but a lot of the characters just came across as whiney assholes. Also they weren't in anyway committed to it being a true reboot since they picked a load of shit to keep to make their lives easier or bring other characters back: and that is probably most galling of all. If they were rebooting it, they should have dropped everything from the Pre-Flashpoint universe: they pissed away an opportunity to actually pre-plan and outline an entire universe.

There were also individual creative decisions that shit me off like changing Wonder Woman's origin, turning Billy Batson into a fucking edgelord, replacing Martian Manhunter with fucking Cyborg (not that he's bad, but it means the Titans were robbed of a character) and what they did with Starfire in the initial run of Red Hood and the Outlaws will require a public flogging of the creative director before my ire at the change bubbles down. Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

However, it would be remiss of me to not also mention some stuff I liked: Aquaman, and Mera too if I'm honest, are total wrecking machines who had fun adventures. Batman's Court of Owls arc was a bloody good read and the Court themselves while not the most original idea, were a fun one. Supergirl I enjoyed too but I cannot recollect why and if I'm honest aside from aforementioned origin cock-up, Wonder Woman's solo run had unique art style and neat storyline. Action Comics showing a Superman just starting out was also a good read since I'm happy to accept the idea of a young Clark Kent being a smug asshole if it's something he will grow out of and reflect upon - which he didn't as far as I could tell.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Justice League Dark's artist just traced Poser art. That made me quit buying comics.

Wait, what? That's...actually quite a step up from tracing porn, I guess.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?