Just was gifted DOTA 2. Where do I start?

[DustyDrB]

You could do like me and just play bot matches with friends because we have no interest in getting too serious with the game. It's surprisingly fun, even with how sucky we are. It's casual, rage-free Dota. And we can also play the way we want, rather than having to worry about optimal builds and whether we're letting down our teammates.

Or you could be serious like some of my other friends. One likes to spec our games and laugh at us. Then he'll tell me to go watch Purge and learn.

 

[Verzin]

do what I did to get into this game:
*Read the guide that SmashlovesTitan posted. (it's by purge: purge is good to learn from. he has good youtube series too.
*Play a few bots games so you aren't completely lost
*play a real game (EDIT: you will probably lose)
*continue playing real games until you know every hero in the game and what they can do *100-200 games
*read and watch everything you can find about dota.
*Farm. FARM ALL DAY. Teamfights? np guys i come after this creep wave.

EDIT: If there is one thing you need to play ANY MOBA, it's a very resilient skin. YOU CANNOT LET PEOPLE GET TO YOU, and god knows they will try.
If your experience is like mine, you will be told to kill yourself, told to uninstall, and called every combination of bad names in English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Russian.
DO NOT LET IT GET TO YOU. DOTA is an extremely fun game once you get into it.

 

[Tanakh]

Just go and lose. If you are godly good somewhere within a month of losing and costing your team the match you will start learning, if you are average, somewhere within the year it will happen.

Lose, learn, and develop a motherfreaking adamantium skin against what your team thinks and says. Take the good, leave the bad. And have fun, not much more you can do but that.

Also, did I mentioned you will lose and you will cost the team the match? Especially if you are not familiar with RTS controls. But we all did, so don't sweat it

Edit: If you want educative videos... well, i wouldnt reccomend them till you actually knew what you are doing in general... but if you really want i would reccomend this:

- http://www.twitch.tv/merlinidota

- http://www.twitch.tv/aui_2000

Merlini is also starting some tutorial vids, but they are not for newbies. And at any rate, watching those two and hearing what they say will make you a good player almost for sure.


Edit: Also, if you want to see the highest current level of dota, I would suggest you this VoD:

- http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/3131-g-league-semi-final-lgdcn-vs-ig-game-2

If nothing but to see how the top dogs perform.

And another Edit: I learnt a LOT of this vid, but might be a little advanced:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXne3KrQ1Ng

Dendi (probably the most gifted DotA player) saying his toughts about solo mid, the position he plays.

 

[Greenman19]

Take advantage of the recent flood of keys and learn/play with other new players as the majority of current players are so-and-so's
Other than that just read a guide or two and play, at first with bots (You can also play with real players against bot teams) then move on to proper play. You will suck for a good while, there's no learning curve just a sheer vertical climb to the point of not sucking so much. You will feed (Die a lot, giving the enemy team a gold/experience advantage) but it really is such a fun game when you know how to play and play with the right people.


P.S You'll need a thick skin

 

[Something1something]

I recently started Dota 2 myself (first moba I've tried), about 2-3 weeks ago. I agree with leet_x1337 on the fact that it isn't an easy game to get in to, meaning you do have to read up on guides/hero builds before you jump in. But, if you do this, the game is perfectly playable as a new player as well (imo).
I've carried plenty of games so far, even getting beyond godlike killsteaks (obviously I'm not playing at high skill games, I'd get destroyed there, but that's what the matchmaking system is for).

Other people have already given a lot of good tips to start off, and yes, you will get people raging.. it's an online game, but I haven't seen that much of it personally, so I'd say just give it a try and see if you like the game.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't know how much DOTA you have played but let me tell you this: Single Draft Disaster is like the worst thing you can show a new player. Even SingSings streams are better for learning the game.

The entire point of the series is that TB has no idea what he is doing. The videos are enjoyable and I won't complain about him uploading them, but you do NOT want a new player to pick Windrunner and not skill Windrun till level 8. Watching SDD is just asking to pick up really bad habits.

You can say it's about getting familiar with the extreme basics of the game (rough map outlines, shop locations, a few heros, movement, shop, etc), but you know what teaches you those things better? Actually playing DOTA.

Disagree. You're thinking about mechanics. I'm thinking about psychology.

What's the major barrier to a game like DOTA2, or Starcraft 2, or any e-sport with a high learning curve and a very competitive scene? It's not the mechanics. Anyone can play bot games to learn the mechanics. Its the community. It's the fear of competing against bloody minded professional players who pour thousands of hours into their game of choice and are better than you're ever going to be. It's stepping into a game as a new player and just getting absolutely owned, and having no fun at all because you're getting rolled by tactics you barely understand, let alone know how to counter.

"Welcome to DOTA2, you suck" doesn't help a lot in this regard. It introduces you to basic mechanics while implying you're going to be a train wreck for THREE TO SIX MONTHS. How many people even play a game that long? Let alone play a game they're now psychologically prepared to get destroyed in? For half a year?

The reality is, yes...the game has a high skill cap and it will take a long time to play at a professional level. The reality ALSO is that there's a lot of dopes and noobs playing the game, and thanks to matchmaking your early games are going to look a lot like Single Draft Disaster. Everyone is bumbling around, you're bumbling around, occasional good players drift through (and rage quit), and a guy with virtually no experience and a horrible grasp of the mechanics can not only win games, you can carry your team. Get in a lane with a guy even worse than you and get fed a bit? Congratulations, you are now a hero.

So yes, absolutely...TB puts on a great show of what not to do. I've played MAYBE 12 games of DOTA2, and my skin itches when I see him running around without spending his level up points, or standing around for ages poking at shop items. But he wins! And he wins with good K/D ratios (sometimes). And he has fun winning. And that...watching someone SUCK and still have fun playing DOTA 2...is what convinced me *I* could have fun playing DOTA 2. Which I'd avoided like a plague before, because I didn't want to spend 3-6 months losing to become competitive.

Hence, when I see a new guy with zero experience asking what to do, I'd rather say "Watch this guy bumble around, your first game will look pretty much like that, try and have fun" and not "You will suck for 6 months, but if you stick with it maybe you'll become acceptable". Just like I wouldn't tell a new bronze league player in Starcraft to watch White Ra and not rest until he's playing at that level. You might as well just tell them to throw the game in the trash.

EDIT: Lol, I just double-checked the guide and it's actually 6-9 months, it's even worse than I remembered. It's a very good guide, but if it was my first introduction to the game I'd say "fuck it" and play something else instead. Something that didn't take 6-9 months to become fun.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

Some toughts about your post:

- You will never learn mechanics beyond last hitting and maybe ringing with bots. Warding the right place, map awarness, juking, solo or team fighting, porting, positioning, any skill and mechanic that you can't do alone you can't learn there.
The only thing they work for is to learn or practice your early spells/combos and practice last hits IMO.

- If you fear playing against bloodly mindied pros as a noob or mid skill, you are totally delusional, chances of someone being very skilled there are lower than you getting the lottery mainly because there is little to no smurfing in this game (and with just that it's years ahead of LoL or HoN at lower levels). And if you fear losing/queueing because your win rate might go down... you are a noob, I did feared that, then I realized only I cared about my win rating. The only thing I care now is getting better, like White Ra said "more gg, more skillz".

- Lulz yeah, six months is probably the minimum a non godly skilled player needs to stop being a detriment to his team, not to be good, just not to be totally horrible. But as you said that doesn't mean it will be six months of torture, because he will be playing against terrible playrs too and he can have lots of fun games. Actually having less than 40% or more than 60% win rate is almost impossible, I haven't seen anything lower than 40% and only amazing players that were pros/elite at DotA, HoN or LoL have 60% + win rate.

- I agree with the apporach. The main, maybe the ONLY thing needed to play DotA is try to have the most fun playing it, that is why it's good to play with friends, even if they are way better or worse than you. If you like it you will probably get good at it at some point... then again we have Sheever which i think is getting worse >.>

- Watching good players, even as a noob, is important. To learn good habits and to see and copy, monkey see, monkey do; in every skill as a human (sports, sience, etc) watching skilled dudes and trying to copy them will give you something. But... again, the most important stuff is to love the game (or hate the enemies) enough to drive you to try be better, so having fun is essential.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You will never learn mechanics beyond last hitting and maybe ringing with bots. Warding the right place, map awarness, juking, solo or team fighting, porting, positioning, any skill and mechanic that you can't do alone you can't learn there.

The only thing they work for is to learn or practice your early spells/combos and practice last hits IMO.

You learn about lanes, you learn about last hitting, you (sort of) learn about the issues with pushing, you learn the locations of shops and layout of the map, you can practice with the courier, you can practice with and learn the skills of certain heroes. You can learn quite a bit playing against bots. Certainly they're not any kind of replacement for humans and they behave very oddly at higher difficulty settings, but there's plenty you can pick up.

I played maybe my first 10 games against medium bots, then another 10 or so against the (ridiculous) hard bots, thinking "if I can't play against these bots I'll get eaten alive by the nasty community!", only to find the actual human players at the bottom rung of the matchmaker were even worse than the rollover medium bots. I don't remember the bots charging headlong into my tower to give me easy kills 30 seconds into the game.

If you fear playing against bloodly mindied pros as a noob or mid skill, you are totally delusional, chances of someone being very skilled there are lower than you getting the lottery mainly because there is little to no smurfing in this game (and with just that it's years ahead of LoL or HoN at lower levels). And if you fear losing/queueing because your win rate might go down... you are a noob, I did feared that, then I realized only I cared about my win rating. The only thing I care now is getting better, like White Ra said "more gg, more skillz".

It's not about fear. It's about wanting a level playing field. I'm a pretty decent Starcraft 2 player, but I wouldn't want to line up against TLO or Root or anyone with half a clue, because they'd eat me like cake. What would the point be? The only thing I'd learn would be humility. White Ra has a point, you do learn by losing, but you learn by losing to people slightly better than you, not MILES better than you. I'm miles better than one of my friends. I could kill him at any time in a SC2 game. With any ridiculous strategy I cared to employ. He learns nothing if I do that. He doesn't even get a chance to practice his macro. Telling brand new players who just picked up a game they're going to be meat for wolves (and shit talking wolves at that) for 9 months isn't going to whet anyone's appetite.

Lulz yeah, six months is probably the minimum a non godly skilled player needs to stop being a detriment to his team, not to be good, just not to be totally horrible. But as you said that doesn't mean it will be six months of torture, because he will be playing against terrible players too and he can have lots of fun games.

Yeah, that's sort of the point of my entire post. You're not going to be a "detriment to your team" when everyone else in the game is just as bad as you. The least bad guy is suddenly a star. It's contextual. If I jumped into a Starcraft 2 4v4 with 7 Korean Pros, I'd be a huge detriment to my team. If I jumped into a game with 7 bronze leaguers, I'd be MVP. Telling a new player he's going to be a reeking detriment for 3/4ths of a year and everyone will be screaming at him is (along with being false) not constructive, you're just driving people off the game. Frankly, I've had ONE game in which there was shit talking, and that was ONE guy, and he wasn't even shit talking me specifically or referring to any one player, he was just being a general nuisance. Most people are too busy playing to be obnoxious.

I agree with the apporach. The main, maybe the ONLY thing needed to play DotA is try to have the most fun playing it, that is why it's good to play with friends, even if they are way better or worse than you. If you like it you will probably get good at it at some point... then again we have Sheever which i think is getting worse >.>

DOTA 2 has a pretty high skill cap, but I think the legendary difficulty of the game has been overstated somewhat. SC2 has a sharper learning curve, by far, for a solo player. The trick (and difficulty) in DOTA2 would seem to be team cohesion more than anything. A lot of it is learning the fairly unique mechanics for MOBAs, since they're a little anti-intuitive in places. And that's not to say I'm good at it, I'm plainly not, I just started. But I'd say it qualifies as an "easy to learn, relatively easy to moderate, hard to master" game.

Watching good players, even as a noob, is important. To learn good habits and to see and copy, monkey see, monkey do; in every skill as a human (sports, sience, etc) watching skilled dudes and trying to copy them will give you something. But... again, the most important stuff is to love the game (or hate the enemies) enough to drive you to try be better, so having fun is essential.

Eh. Yes and no. I'm a hockey fan. It boots nothing for me to watch Alex Ovechkin and then to go and try to copy him on the ice, I'd make a fool of myself. I can see what a pro SC2 player does to counter a build or strat, but that doesn't mean I'm fast enough to do it. Watching pro players is fun for amateurs, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily particularly informative. They have counters in place because they have extraordinary macro and micro. When you get caught with your pants down, you probably don't have your army re-upped by the end of the fight, because you stink. Fortunately, because you stink, your opponent probably stinks too.

Using SC2 parlance, I think Bronze league players learn best from watching Silver league replays, and Silver league from Gold, and so on. If you're Diamond or Masters, by all means, try and learn from pros. Switching back to DOTA 2, if you're a yutz who JUST looked at the game for the first time and have zero MOBA experience, TB is probably an appropriate place to start learning. Not "watch this TB video, it tells you everything you'll ever need to know', but 'watch this TB video, it's not intimidating, and it shows you some basics'.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

- Yeah, the best bots have inhuman reflexes and perfect CC chain/last hitting , they also have decent 5 man dota timings (they start pushing as soon as they have their core items). Still their strat sucks and I think they are totally skippable if you are familiar with RTS PvP; if not maybe some games there are a good idea.
As for the nastiness of the community, i have always tought it was exaggerated as dota 2 seems very friendly, then again i come from HoN and WoW arena/Battlegrounds... kinda insensitive to online people now. Personaly i am also somewhat aggressive in there, if someone fucks the creep balance on my lane for example ill write a "are you a noob or totally retarded?" followed by "you did X, which in thurn makes Y and messes with our lane, please stop that"; the ammount of people that don't know how to creep pull correctly, last hit correctly, creep block and sutff even in high skill games is astonishing... i need to get better and go to very high

- Yeah, but Dota and SC 2 have good ladders. SC 2 has the better one, but even in DotA stuff is usually balanced, you are almost never going to see anyone good if you are starting, which will give you room to grow. At the very worst you will be outclassed in 5%-10% of the games, the rest you have a chance and some of them (a few too) you will own.

- Legendary difficulty? IMO the only hard video game in this world is SC, because it's the only game where i couldn't guarantee you to make bots that win most of the time against the top humans given 1 year and a decent proyect budget. DotA is way harded than your average game, but nowhere near SC. As for team cohesion, i think it's just the first step to have a decent dota game, and it hugely depends on getting high enough for the support players to be good at what they do; having a team director with a mic also helps.

- Only if you try that only a day. If you try to copy Ovechkin for a month every day you will probably improve a bit. And sure you can steal build in SC from the pros, it just takes a week max to polish the timings to perfection and make your brain/hands used to it, less if you are good, but i never got that good at SC, and then a couple weeks more to learn to use that army composition. SC is a weird beast for me, i easily went to gold in 1v1 doing safe or cheesy toss builds, but most of the time there i spend doing "legit early aggro" terran strats and getting owned in bronze because i dont have the EAPM/map knowledge for that... yet i felt it was much better to do that for me. Mhee, someday when i retire from work and can devote to it i might get good enough to pull em off.
But you are right, if you want to win as a noob you don't pull a marine king prime build, you do a cheesy strat or just turtle to 200 with a good comp with little micro.

- I never have watched TB... not a fan of casters; the only one that i like is Tastetossis. And casters in DotA are even more amateur, few have either tactical or practical knowledge of the game.
Honestly, outisde aui 2000 and merlini, there are very few ways to learn skills, strats and whatnot watching vids. Still, if he shares his enjoyment of the game through the vid, sounds good enough.

 

[Carboncrown]

First off, there's a reason it's by far the most played game on steam, it really is worth the occasional flaming asshole.
(It's also really entertaining to watch - the only e-sport I've stuck with - and watching pro-streams and games is obviously really beneficial.)

Dota is a hard game but, just having read the "welcome, you suck" -guide is going to put you ahead of other beginners. You don't even need to remember all of it, just keep occasionally coming back to it.

Hell, here's all you need with that guide for a >50% win rate - after a few co-op games against bots to familiarize the mechanics:

Spoiler

(0.5 it's going to ask for your skill level, pick the lowest - obviously.)

1. Click play now - mode: single draft - and pick a hero that seems easy (or once you know most of the heroes, a hero that's not of a similar role to the ones your teammates have picked.)

2. Read your heros basics here http://www.dota2alttab.com/ (you have a little time, while others are still picking and before the creeps spawn). This is not an absolute guide.*

3. Be positive on chat at all times.

4. Call 'gg' after the fountain is destroyed.

5. Look at the end screen for a while and try to anlyze the game. (Like the impact of individual items - just try and guess - eventually you'll start to see the wonderful cause and effect of Dota 2.)

6. Repeat.

*Most important is to try and understand the reasoning behind the suggestions and the heros role and function.

Incidentally the two youtubers you've been linked to: Purge and TB are doing a collaboration soon, where TB is coached by Purge. It's probably going to be the best thing for helping beginners to get into dota.

*snip*

These guys are speaking the truth. TB makes a lot of mistakes but his approach is the one you'll really want to adapt. Not only is he being positive, but also analytical, constantly looking for the reason why the fights went the way they did and the reasoning behind the suggested items.

 

[Meatspinner]

Getting into dota is easy. Just follow these simple steps

-Pick a strength hero
-buy mostly str items
-play a few games
-learn from mistakes
-profit

It's not as complicated as some of the hardcore moba fans make it out to be.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah, the best bots have inhuman reflexes and perfect CC chain/last hitting , they also have decent 5 man dota timings (they start pushing as soon as they have their core items). Still their strat sucks and I think they are totally skippable if you are familiar with RTS PvP; if not maybe some games there are a good idea.

I actually see a LOT of MMO battlegrounds in DOTA2, much moreso than I see a typical RTS. You're focused on a single hero, with a small suite of core abilities, gear is a consideration, levels are a consideration, and coordinating with a team puts you miles ahead of uncoordinated guys, even if they're individually more skilled. And you're correct, I don't see the DOTA 2 community as being notably worse than ANY online competitive PvP community. GW2 WvWvW is bitcher by far than a standard DOTA 2 game. If you play online games, eventually you'll run into assholes, DOTA 2 is no exception. The major issue I can see is that being bad in DOTA 2 can literally sink the entire team in pretty short order, if you're bad at the wrong time and feed the wrong hero.

And yeah the hard bots are just silly. Getting hit by 5 heroes all inside of 0.5 seconds of one another is soooo fun.

Yeah, but Dota and SC 2 have good ladders. SC 2 has the better one, but even in DotA stuff is usually balanced, you are almost never going to see anyone good if you are starting, which will give you room to grow. At the very worst you will be outclassed in 5%-10% of the games, the rest you have a chance and some of them (a few too) you will own.

Agreed.

Legendary difficulty? IMO the only hard video game in this world is SC, because it's the only game where i couldn't guarantee you to make bots that win most of the time against the top humans given 1 year and a decent proyect budget. DotA is way harded than your average game, but nowhere near SC. As for team cohesion, i think it's just the first step to have a decent dota game, and it hugely depends on getting high enough for the support players to be good at what they do; having a team director with a mic also helps.

I don't know about SC being the only hard game, but DOTA 2 does not have a 6-9 month learning curve, that's just absurd. It has like, a 6-9 hour learning curve, after which you iterate and slowly get better by learning each hero and adding to your foundations. If someone tells me a game has a 6-9 month learning curve, I understand that as it's going to take me 6-9 months to even begin to understand what I'm doing. DOTA 2 is not that complicated. MOBAs as a whole get a little oversold as being ludicrously hard when they are, in fact, fairly straightforward. It's more information density (tons of heroes, tons of items) than actual game play difficulty. Grab a hero like Viper who is all passives and toggles and you're literally auto-attacking everyone to death. A dog could do that.

Only if you try that only a day. If you try to copy Ovechkin for a month every day you will probably improve a bit.

If *I* were to try and copy him? Chances are I'd just injure myself.

And sure you can steal build in SC from the pros, it just takes a week max to polish the timings to perfection and make your brain/hands used to it, less if you are good, but i never got that good at SC, and then a couple weeks more to learn to use that army composition. SC is a weird beast for me, i easily went to gold in 1v1 doing safe or cheesy toss builds, but most of the time there i spend doing "legit early aggro" terran strats and getting owned in bronze because i dont have the EAPM/map knowledge for that... yet i felt it was much better to do that for me. Mhee, someday when i retire from work and can devote to it i might get good enough to pull em off.
But you are right, if you want to win as a noob you don't pull a marine king prime build, you do a cheesy strat or just turtle to 200 with a good comp with little micro.

I made it as far as Diamond 1v1, but I didn't really have any business being there. I was advancing primarily through a lot of really aggressive all-in strategies...not cheese, necessarily...but a lot of riverboat gambling. I would've been better off just playing standard and working on my macro. I think my natural level is probably gold or very low platinum. I do love the game, but I find the skill cap in terms of what it requires in terms of manual dexterity and mental agility is way higher than DOTA 2, it's like playing the piano vs banging a triangle. Very different animals.

I never have watched TB... not a fan of casters; the only one that i like is Tastetossis. And casters in DotA are even more amateur, few have either tactical or practical knowledge of the game.
Honestly, outisde aui 2000 and merlini, there are very few ways to learn skills, strats and whatnot watching vids.

Still, if he shares his enjoyment of the game through the vid, sounds good enough.

He shares the process of being a noob in unfamiliar waters and puzzling through it, and has fun doing it. I quite like his let's plays. His "I Suck At Starcraft 2" series is great for new players as well, for similar reasons. When you've played a game for a long time, especially an esport, you tend to forget what it's like to be completely new. I was guilty of this a lot with friends, pushing them to get up to my level instead of just letting them have fun and be bad and learn fundamentals at their own pace. Ultimately the goal is to have fun, and no one is going to have fun if they have a bunch of preening jerks telling them how much they suck and how they need to treat the game like medical school if they want to get anywhere.

 

[Tanakh]

Thread title reveals all. I sat in my library at school thinking 'man, I left something I need to work on at home!'. So I fired up a Remote Desktop connection and saw that my friend gifted me a copy of DOTA 2.

I'm happy and all, but I have no idea what DOTA 2 is, what the mechanics are, or how to play it. I'm going into this completely blind. Anything I need to know?

Dude, you still around? I just found THE PERFECT GUIDE FOR DOTA 2:



In my 2 and a half years of playing ARTS i have NEVER seen a better guide for newbies.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

Skeleton King is good for first timers.

 

[Isalan]

Firstly, piss about in practice. Create a lobby, fill it with passive bots and play a few heroes you like the sound of. Practice last hitting and denying with them, get used to their animation. If you want, put cheats on and enable WTF mode (-wtf in the console, full details of accessing the console and a variety of helpful things you can do in it are available here www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/dota2)

Secondly, when picking a character to play choose a support. Carries are great fun to play, but until you get good with them your unlikely to get the farm you need in game to make any real difference. Again, practice can help, but when you jump into matchmaking your gonna want to play a hero that you can do well with regardless of farm. Vengeful Spirit, Sand King, Lina, and Lion are great starting heroes.

Thirdly, your going to have to do at least a little research. The dota 2 wiki (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Dota_2_Wiki) is a great source of info, and www.youtube.com/dotacinema do an excellent selection of video guides which are only 5 or so mins long.

Fourthly, don't sweat other people. Some people are dicks, this is more a fact of life than a fact of Dota. If someone decides to be a buttplug, mute em and report em if they're being total asses. Hell, I played a Windrunner game earlier tonight, ended up getting owned and bitched at, then everyone abandoned before 15 mins. Played a Bounty Hunter game next, got matched with a bunch of the same people, had a good early lane and we just got along.

And bonus pro tip: Their are many ways of detecting invisibility in the game, but no one in pub matches generally buys them. So if you pick a hero with invis (Riki, Bounty Hunter, any hero with a Shadowblade) your gonna have an easy time getting round and can pull off some nice ganks. Eventually the other team will get sick enough of you to buy wards, dust or a gem (invis detection) but by then it shouldn't really matter.

Hell, if your playing on EU sometime gimme a shout, we can do some laning.

Oh, and good luck.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

- Supports are more fun to play than a hard carry (for me, it's no fun to farm 20-30 mins) and can decide the match as easily as any other role. KotL for example can totally win a lane by it's own while warding, supporting and giving your hard carry free farm, while a good offensive trilane with 2 supports will win you mid and bot, but a bad KotL will shit all over his lane and probably starve his partner. Then again at low levels they probably matter much less, the higher you go the more important they are, 1437 for example has been more influential in his games than hvost.

- For basic guides i would go http://www.dota2alttab.com/ , easy, fast, decent enough and wont overload you with info.

- Invis heroes will only work at low levels. A good lane against gondar/brood will have sentries level 1 and shut your hero down.

That said, i agree with everything you said for a starting player. But wanted to contextualize because that is only true if the enemies are bad.

 

[danon]

Run while you still have your sanity intact.