Just what are "Daddy Issues"?

[happyninja42]

Ok so, having watched Yahtzee's Mirror's Edge: Catalyst review, he made a comparison visually to the new Tomb Raider games, and mentioned how they are similar in several ways, one of which is the protagonist has Daddy Issues.

Now, I haven't played Catalyst yet, and I haven't played Rise of the Tomb Raider, but I did play the original reboot with the new version of Lara. And while I hate that game, and find the writing absolutely terrible, I wouldn't say she's got "Daddy Issues".

See, whenever I hear that term used, it's usually in the context of "Person had a bad father, either abuse or neglect, etc, and now has lots of personal problems that they blame (rightly or wrongly) on said Daddy."

But, that's not Lara's dad from the Tomb Raider game. Every time he comes up in that game, it's in the form of a supportive voice over, giving Lara the courage she needs to survive. He obviously loved her, cherished her, and spent lots of time with her, teaching how to defend herself. And I don't recall her ever speaking negatively of him. The only negative quality of her relationship as presented in the game (that I can recall, I've blanked out a lot of that game), was how at times she would remember feeling like she wouldn't live up to his standard. But that's a self inflicted negativity, because every time, her dad would then say "You can dur it Lara, yur a Crawft!" And then there would be swelling music and she'd triumphantly do something new and save herself from certain death.

...that...just doesn't seem like Daddy Issues to me.

Would you say Lara has Daddy Issues? Or that this is simply a misuse of the term, when all it really is (at least for the first Tomb Raider game), is a plot that involves a Father/Daughter relationship, that is actually pretty good. Did they expand on this in RotTR and show it actually was a shitty relationship? Because I somehow doubt it, given what little I know of that plot.

Thoughts?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I generally hear "daddy issues" as a pejorative for "women who acknowledge that they're women in public".

Yahtzee's bizarre aside about "Girl Gamers" in his Gamers are Dead article uses it that way at least. You know, for your flashback controversy needs. Glad we moved on from that Fake Gamer Girl thing.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I'm guessing its people who have had bad experiences trying to find magical red snakes.

 

[kris40k]

Thoughts?

I haven't played Tomb Raider yet (sitting in my backlog), so I can't comment on if she has Daddy Issue's in that game, but I would just remind you that Yahtzee is a comedian and not all of his quips should be over-thought.

 

[EvilRoy]

Well in real life I've both heard it used (and seen it acted out) as basically a descriptor of a girl who for whatever reason actively seeks to replace her father figure through men they date or work with. Basically using the guy as somebody to look up to and please as a surrogate for their actual father. The two times I ran into this personally were women who didn't have fathers (outside of foster families that they bounced between) and had a habit of dating men 20 to 30 years older than themselves, but not in like a "sugar-daddy" way. Basically they just seemed to be looking for a support system through romance, where the dude by virtue of age was basically in charge. Rather than roughly equal relationships like you might find in a lot of your twenty something friends, though, these relationships basically had the dude providing all the control and all the emotional support for the girl and receiving not much more than sex in return. That's not a judgement, just a description of what I saw.

In common parlance and in the way less extreme examples you hear about a bit more often, daddy-issues just means they basically depend on a chosen male (that may be replaced however often) to take care of them emotionally. I never played Other M, but judging only from the bits of story that I heard, Samus absolutely needing permission from whats his face before doing anything and constantly seeking his approval is what I would probably call daddy issues.

 

[Bobular]

My understanding was that 'daddy issues' is when a character, rightly or wrongly, blames everything that is wrong in their life on the fact that 'daddy never loved me'.

Best example I can think of comes from 40k (lots of daddy issues there), with Lorgar. He spent basically his entire life trying to get people to worship his dad, constructing massive temples to his dad, writing a religious book about his dad and constantly being told by his dad that he wasn't a god and that there is no such thing as gods. Eventually Lorgar got so bad that his dad had to slap some sense into him by getting his brother to burn one of his favorite temple cities to the ground, leveling the entire planet. Lorgar then realising that his daddy never loved him goes of to destroy his daddy's empire by worshiping daemons instead.

That's what I think of when people say 'daddy issues', someone who wants their dads approval but never gets it so either strikes out at their dad or finds a replacement dad (or both).

 

[Zhukov]

But, that's not Lara's dad from the Tomb Raider game. Every time he comes up in that game, it's in the form of a supportive voice over, giving Lara the courage she needs to survive. He obviously loved her, cherished her, and spent lots of time with her, teaching how to defend herself. And I don't recall her ever speaking negatively of him. The only negative quality of her relationship as presented in the game (that I can recall, I've blanked out a lot of that game), was how at times she would remember feeling like she wouldn't live up to his standard. But that's a self inflicted negativity, because every time, her dad would then say "You can dur it Lara, yur a Crawft!" And then there would be swelling music and she'd triumphantly do something new and save herself from certain death.

Aaaaactually, Roth taught her to defend herself and whatnot and that's Roth's voice doing the yur a Crawft bits.

Something that is often described as "daddy issues" is someone who goes about searching for surrogate father figure to replace a absent, neglectful or abusive actual father. Fill the emotional void or whatever. Which Lara from the new games kinda... does? I guess?

In the second game Lara's father is depicted as being, not neglectful exactly, but not there as much as he could have been due to outside pressures.

In the new Mirror's Edge Faith's father is absent (due to being dead, in flashbacks and documents and such he's depicted as being an all round good guy) and she has an unofficial adoptive father. They're shown to care for one another a great deal. Never really occurred to me to think of it as daddy issues, but there you go.

I 'unno, Yahtzee might just be being flippant. Or he's run into one too many chicks with daddy issues and now sees it everywhere. Who knows.

 

[deadish]

Daddy issues = Daddy didn't pay enough attention/give enough approval, i.e. Daddy didn't love them enough.

Girls like this act out to compensate, trying to fill the void with the attention of other guys.

That's my interpretation of it.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I've not played Catalyst, I've owned TR:Rise for months and didn't get further than about an hour before getting disappointed, but I loved the TR reboot.

Going from some criticism I've heard, though, I'd define Lara's daddy issues as being about a woman who defines themselves not through their own accomplishments or goals, but is hung up on a need for being validated by a patriarch. As in; nothing they do really matters until a father figure pats them on the head.

In a feminist context it can very easily be seen as a negative. I hope Rise really doesn't dwell on that too much thematically, because for me that will undermine Lara.

Nolan's Batman (which is my favourite version, given I don't really like the character) has daddy issues too; 'where's ma patriarch! validate me and my mentally unhinged actions!'. Nolan's one of my favourite mainstream directors, but he has issues with female characters, and with Bruce the mother is completely written out the picture in terms of who mattered, and who was a defining influence.

Generally, I'd say forcing any daddy issues on Lara just undermines her, and if the mother is treated in the same way as Martha Wayne was, then it could very easily be suggested that gives Lara's feminist credentials a bit of a knock; she isn't a badass for any other reason than her father allowed for it - reducing the female 'influence' to one of simply giving birth.

With Bruce Wayne it can work, because he's a very disturbed and unhealthy individual. But Lara? I prefer reboot to classic Croft, but saddling her with a hang up about a patriarch undermines her independence (which is a big part of her enduring appeal), and just comes across as lazy, frankly. If her parents are ever going to be discussed, at least value the mother as an equal in terms of which influence really mattered.

 

[Phasmal]

I generally hear "daddy issues" as a pejorative for "women who acknowledge that they're women in public".

Yahtzee's bizarre aside about "Girl Gamers" in his Gamers are Dead article uses it that way at least. You know, for your flashback controversy needs. Glad we moved on from that Fake Gamer Girl thing.

Mmm, yeah. If you're a woman, and you have a father, you automatically have daddy issues! (Apparently).
A bit hyperbolic, maybe, but it's something I've seen flung around for basically no reason.

I always thought the relationship between a person and their dad and then that impact on their relationship with men in general was always massively overstated. And a little bit creepy.
Despite being kind of estranged from my father, both my relationship with him and my relationships with men in general are fine, and I really don't see the connection between the two.

EDIT: I should probably say though, in regards to video game writing, I would like more female character who has a motivation other than something to do with a dude, father or otherwise.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Yahtzee is probably sick of seeing a major motivation for female characters in video games (and other media) having something to do with her father, regardless of it being a good or bad relationship.

This just means video games need better writing.

 

[Necrozius]

Yahtzee is probably sick of seeing a major motivation for female characters in video games (and other media) having something to do with her father, regardless of it being a good or bad relationship.

This just means video games need better writing.

Basically, yeah. Some storytelling cliches are getting old. I dare to call them "tropes" but that's sort of a good word for it too.

Also related: the trope of men hating their fathers. That was always weird to me (I got along great with my dad, even through adolescence). I did not understand why this was such a prevalent thing (Oedipal somehow?).

(edit: we can't use character accents here? Oh well. Trust me: I know how to properly spell clich? )

 

[Jamash]

Could Yahtzee's quips just be a joking way of trying to find an explanation for what takes place in the game?

From what I can gather, in the Tomb Raider games, by the end of it the female protagonist has killed quite a significant number of men and doesn't really seem to be bothered by it, so pretending that she has daddy issues as the reason for killing spree against men could just be a half-hearted attempt at trying to explain the disconnect between the character and the gameplay.

If the roles were reversed and the games featured a male character brutally killing hundreds of women throughout the course of the game and not showing any emotional reaction to his actions, then I'm sure some commentators would make a reference to him having some kind of psychological hatred of women, so perhaps the phrase daddy issues is just comedic shorthand for pointing out that Lara Croft does kill lots of men and must have some kind of deep seated hatred of men to do so with such cold and clinical detachment.

It's probably not intended to be taken literally, just as a protagonist's actions throughout the course of a game for gameplay purposes aren't supposed to be examined in too much light and taken as a indictment of their psychological state.

Pretty much every video game protagonist has daddy issues, mother issues or other similar psychological failings if you view the actions they perform as being conscious decisions dictated by their psychology rather than actions made by the player for gameplay purposes.

On that note, in GTA V I did love Michael's sessions with his psychologist, during which the conversations would change depending on what the player did while they were playing as Michael, which in most cases led to Michael saying that he feels like he's losing it and is just a broken psychopath addicted to chaos, because he could just be having a normal day, but then suddenly he feels like he's not in control of himself any more, that something takes over (i.e. the player when they switch between characters and join Michael as he's doing normal day to day things) and suddenly he's shooting up the place and leaving a trail of bodies in his wake.

It really is quite tragic, but also an eye-opener too as witnessing how you as a player, through your actions, are really tormenting and ruining the life of this man who is trying to reform and sort his life out, it makes you think about how, hypothetically, how many other protagonist's lives and minds you're ruining with your gameplay actions (but without the benefit of hearing them talk about this chaos with their shrinks).

 

[Parasondox]

I think everyone has explained it clearly. All I will add is an expression.

I find it really uncomfortable when a girl/woman calls her boyfriend or husband, "daddy". I would not find that any bit of a turn on if my other half did that. Just no.

Does that link to daddy issues?

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I think I've viewed the term in a much broader sense which is what I think Yahtzee did as well. To me if someone has Daddy Issues it just means that whatever emotional or mental cross they have to carry is due to their father's influence, be it negative or positive (usually negative).

For example, my best friend, who is a gay man, definitely has daddy issues stemming from his parents' divorce. He grapples with all kinds of depression and self-worth issues which can most likely be traced back to losing his dad and their subsequent lackluster relationship. He is attracted to older men as well so you could say he has the "traditional" daddy issues stuff going on as well.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

It's a combination of things, like the extension of Freudian theories (Oedipus/Electra complex), the effect of the parent of the opposite sex on providing a model for interaction with members of that sex, the dynamic of the family, social norms/traditions/conditioning etc. It's not exclusive to women, though it's usually attributed to women. Men get "mommy issues" just as often.

I find it really uncomfortable when a girl/woman calls her boyfriend or husband, "daddy". I would not find that any bit of a turn on if my other half did that. Just no.

Does that link to daddy issues?

Dad kink is a thing and it usually seems to link to daddy issues. It's not my thing either, but it's not necessarily bad/unhealthy/destructive.

 

[K12]

Basically an overly strong need to seek approval from perceived authority figures... because they didn't get enough attention from daddy. I'd say that even though it's usually used to refer to women it can still apply to men as well.

It can vary between from a personality quirk that gives someone endearingly touch of insecurity... or just the right level of kink. To potentially being a really serious pattern of thoughts and behaviours that lead to very self-destricutive choices... like being attracted to scumbags and taking every beating or affair or piece of manipulative cruelty to be their own fault.

 

[Phasmal]

It's a combination of things, like the extension of Freudian theories (Oedipus/Electra complex), the effect of the parent of the opposite sex on providing a model for interaction with members of that sex, the dynamic of the family, social norms/traditions/conditioning etc. It's not exclusive to women, though it's usually attributed to women. Men get "mommy issues" just as often.

Yeah, that is the thing I think is way too overstated. Like ridiculously so. I grew up in a house full of women but I've never struggled to interact with men. It's not like I was there like "Bwuh? A man? How to I communicate with this being? What language does it speak?". Hyperbolic, but you get me.

I'm not saying it has absolutely zero affect, but I don't think it's particularly important for most people. But again, grew up in a house of one gender, so I guess I am Teh Biased in that regard, which I'll admit.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

Yeah, that is the thing I think is way too overstated. Like ridiculously so. I grew up in a house full of women but I've never struggled to interact with men. It's not like I was there like "Bwuh? A man? How to I communicate with this being? What language does it speak?". Hyperbolic, but you get me.

I'm not saying it has absolutely zero affect, but I don't think it's particularly important for most people. But again, grew up in a house of one gender, so I guess I am Teh Biased in that regard, which I'll admit.

I'm not equipped to go into detail; I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I can't discount the subtleties in the psychological make-up of a person and how much and what kind of effect their interaction with their various family members may have had on them.

So yeah, I don't really disagree with you in that it's not some massive thing that permeates the being of every person on the planet, but I do think most people carry some subtle form of it, which may very well not even be easily detectable by themselves or others. Of course, even that's mostly on a theoretical/philosophical level and doesn't necessarily relate to this discussion.

In regards to the way Yahtzee was using it, it was probably exaggerated for effect, especially as "the sins of the father" is a trope in media anyway.

 

[Synigma]

Also haven't played the Lara Remakes but I do personally know a girl who could be defined as having 'Daddy Issues'. Her father works all the overtime he can and he was super into WoW for most of her formative years.

It resulted in a girl who is very clingy to the men in her life. Not necessarily in a sexual way, I'm actually her uncle and whenever there was a family gathering she would hang off of me the whole time. I've also got her on facebook and I see the stuff she posts... she openly posts meme's about how clingy she is, about being the kind of girl that needs constant reassurance.

And that's the reason it's a pejorative; it's expressed as a lack of confidence. They didn't get the feedback they needed for all the good / bad things they did as a child so they don't know the difference, they just know they want more feedback. "No man is an island" and all that; we all crave interaction with other humans but they are missing some of the rulebook. Which results in them also being easier to take advantage of. Besides the obvious implication to women who will do anything for men in their life this is also the cornerstone to the formation of cults and gangs.

TL;DR 'Daddy Issues' is a shorthand for women (and men, though it manifests differently) who have confidence issues because they didn't have someone to provide enough positive/negative feedback.