Justification for Smartness

[Thyunda]

Now, most of us are probably thinking, "Why the hell do I have to justify being smart?"

Well, I'm sure we've all come up against that knowledge barrier. You know the one. "I don't care about geography, so why would I have to know that Europe isn't a country?"
So how would you justify spreading this knowledge? Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?
I ask because I'm desperate. My cousin thinks he's a musician, and he auto-tunes the shit out of his music. He is going nowhere. And yet, he still neglects common knowledge. For obvious reasons, this is bad. Anybody that has been to both France and America, and yet thinks Paris in in Florida, clearly has problems.
I want him to at least gain a bit of worldly knowledge...just so he still has a fighting chance at real life. But, he is set on pop music, and has literally no interest in learning anything. He's a year younger than me. I finished school three years ago. He's still in the year before last.

So, the discussion here: What examples of stupid have you experienced, and how do you go about justifying the fact that stupidity is bad?

 

[HardkorSB]

Well, I'm sure we've all come up against that knowledge barrier. You know the one. "I don't care about geography, so why would I have to know that Europe isn't a country?"
So how would you justify spreading this knowledge? Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?

Because fashion models do a lot of traveling and there's a hell load of fashion shows in Europe.

 

[Woodsey]

"Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?"

To not look like a twat.

Can't think of any examples as bad as yours.

 

[Thyunda]

Well, I'm sure we've all come up against that knowledge barrier. You know the one. "I don't care about geography, so why would I have to know that Europe isn't a country?"
So how would you justify spreading this knowledge? Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?

Because fashion models do a lot of traveling and there's a hell load of fashion shows in Europe.

Yeah, but that's what agents are for, right? Or..perhaps...'nerdy' cousins who just happen to look like a freaking genius compared to you.

 

[Woodsey]

Well, I'm sure we've all come up against that knowledge barrier. You know the one. "I don't care about geography, so why would I have to know that Europe isn't a country?"
So how would you justify spreading this knowledge? Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?

Because fashion models do a lot of traveling and there's a hell load of fashion shows in Europe.

Yeah, but that's what agents are for, right? Or..perhaps...'nerdy' cousins who just happen to look like a freaking genius compared to you.

Well if he's that much of a retard there's no point arguing the point with him.

 

[Thyunda]

Well, I'm sure we've all come up against that knowledge barrier. You know the one. "I don't care about geography, so why would I have to know that Europe isn't a country?"
So how would you justify spreading this knowledge? Why would that stupid blonde whose only desire is to become a fashion model actually need to know any of this stuff?

Because fashion models do a lot of traveling and there's a hell load of fashion shows in Europe.

Yeah, but that's what agents are for, right? Or..perhaps...'nerdy' cousins who just happen to look like a freaking genius compared to you.

Well if he's that much of a retard there's no point arguing the point with him.

Except he's family, and he DOES listen to reason...but only if he judges it well enough. So, he is convinced he'll be a big shot. Hell, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet, but if he listened to me, I reckon I could put him in with a real chance. When he released his latest song, all of the reviews matched my predictions to the letter.

Anyway, off-subject. Well, naturally, telling him that he won't be a big singer isn't going to work. I need to find a way that geographical and linguistic knowledge will really benefit a singer. Amusingly enough, I wrote his most popular songs...so you can tell he has no incentive to write his own.

Now I've noticed that the Escapist community is nothing if not clever. You guys have thought shit up that never occurred to me...so I think somebody knows what to do.

 

[Thyunda]

Well first off there's a difference between intelligence and knowing facts, if there wasn't we'd all be idiots before the mighty encyclopaedia! He's not an idiot for not knowing things, he just doesn't know things and (somewhat rightly) knows he doesn't need to know them because they won't actually ever be useful. In the age of the Internet it's almost useless memorising facts you'll never need, it's actually more efficient to work on reasoning skills and know that whatever fact you need is right at your fingertips.

I've mostly encountered the opposite actually; people who are desperate to prove how clever they are and do so by rattling off facts. As Snape correctly states in the sixth Harry Potter book there's nothing especially praiseworthy about memorising a book.

It's always possible that your cousin hates your guts for calling him stupid and he's basically spiting you, maybe he knows more than he lets on or maybe he looks these things up later but if you regularly rub in his lack of knowledge I can see him getting pretty sick of it. It's important we know how old he is though, his behaviour before about the age of 18 is perfectly reasonable but will maybe hold him back later.

Actually, I rarely ever mention how much I know to him. He just comes to me if he needs question answering. The examples of stupidity I've mentioned have been occasions when he's come out with these 'facts' with no provocation from me, specifically. I wouldn't mind so much if he was sheltered and never saw the world. Frankly, I'm jealous of how much he's seen...and it's almost offensive that he missed so much of it. I suppose, yeah, you could call me bitter. How can somebody with that much opportunity possibly miss so much?

I'm not one to try and prove how clever I am. I'm always concerned that I'll rattle off a horde of misinformation...and have to correct myself at a later date.

He's going to be 18 come Hallowe'en. So we don't have much time. And I don't think he's an idiot for not knowing all these facts. In fact, I don't think he's an idiot at all. He is certainly not incapable of learning all this stuff. I just think that there is a kind of basic level of knowledge that everybody should at least have. I mean, I couldn't point to Hungary on a map. However, I can make out a vague area of where it is. There's being knowledgeable, and then there's...say...claiming Europe's a country. If everybody only knew what would be of use at that exact moment...then what happens if it goes wrong? Like, say, he doesn't become a popstar? He has only a vague notion of how to communicate effectively in a formal setting, so a job interview will be hell for him. He has this awful fake smile...and it plasters itself onto his face. It just frustrates people. And he has no opinions that he'll share. He just says what he thinks you want to hear. Maybe that's useful...but I don't think it'll fly when people need him to work on his own initiative.

Anyhow, I completely forgot what I was talking about in the first place. Uh. Oh yeah! He asks me how to get ahead with his music...but if I give him advice, he disregards it entirely, unless I tell him to do what he's already doing. I do want him to get ahead. It just frustrates me that I do know what's best and that I can't persuade him to trust me. I just need somebody to help me teach him that mimicking and exaggerating the current music charts is not going to get him anywhere. I don't want to teach him facts, so to speak, I want to open him to facts. If I'm making sense.

 

[Saluki_princess]

He sounds like my little sister. She's determined to not be "normal" by going to college and getting "an office job." She says college wouldn't teach her how to do her job, so there's no point in going. So she's going to be a makeup artist for fashion models/celebrities and just get a sugar daddy. All she watches is trash TV.

Basically, I don't try to push anything on her, because my parents have tried that already, and it only makes her resist more. I just talk about awesome experiences in college, all of the free money I get for going, etc. Now she's decided she's going to go too--but just for her associates. And if that works out, maybe she'll go higher.

And if she doesn't do anything? Well, I can't stop her. The sad fact is, sometimes you have to let people make mistakes. And when your cousin gets a taste of reality, he'll likely own up to it (assuming you don't rub it in).

However, if he really does listen to reach, try finding statistics for what he's trying to do. Show him his odds of hitting it big. Let professionals in his field tell him what you've been trying to, and maybe he'll listen.

You can also point out that artists use common knowledge for inspiration and innovation all the time, and point out examples in his field.

 

[Thyunda]

snip

Honestly your cousin seems to be lacking skills, that's actually a little more serious than I initially thought. To be honest I'd say that some basic awareness of the World would be good for him. The important thing for him is to develop his ability to succeed in an interview setting, he must have real knowledge and ability in his specialised field, he doesn't necessarily need to know everything but he needs to be good at something.

We're a family of academics. But not the bookish type. Application is more our specialisation. That's the skill he needs...but he also needs a database to draw from. It's all well and good being able to look it up on the Internet later in the day, but you do need that base of knowledge to draw from on the spur of the moment. Again, my main issue was that the extent of my travel reaches from England to Malta, and no further. I have only visited Malta and France, as none-British cultures. Yet I have a damn fine aptitude for picking up on details and cultural niches and all that sort of thing. I am truly jealous of just how far he's travelled. I would love to see America. I would love to take a cruise. The things I could see and the things I would learn...it just feels...wrong...that you can see and do all of that, and just block it all out.
Since I'm not a petty man, I'd far rather he share my capacity for learning...that way, his experience is not as wasted as it seems. Travel broadens the mind and everybody respects a travelling man. But not if said travelling man has visited Disneyland resort and spent the cruise in the arcade.

I actually think that might be where the logic for Paris being in the States came from. I suppose, without direct instruction, you can forget that there are two Disneyland resorts...Paris and...Orlando, is it? So if you only saw Orlando as 'Disneyland', and came across Disneyland Paris, it's easy to deduce that Disneyland Paris is the same Disneyland as Orlando, therefore Orlando is Paris and Paris is in Florida.
He's smart, I guess, it's just he's working on the wrong logical tracks.

 

[William MacKay]

you do need to know basic stuff like maths, english and the difference between a continent and a country. after that, it's specialised education like science or music.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

Anyhow, I completely forgot what I was talking about in the first place. Uh. Oh yeah! He asks me how to get ahead with his music...but if I give him advice, he disregards it entirely, unless I tell him to do what he's already doing. I do want him to get ahead. It just frustrates me that I do know what's best and that I can't persuade him to trust me. I just need somebody to help me teach him that mimicking and exaggerating the current music charts is not going to get him anywhere. I don't want to teach him facts, so to speak, I want to open him to facts. If I'm making sense.

But if he wants to do Pop music why not let him? Granted it doesn't sound like he'd be good at it if you wrote his only good songs and he lacks charisma, songwriting and charisma are extremely important in most music and maybe most of all so in Pop.

Tell him that very few people who try suceeds at music and that he has to learn to live in normal life it doesn't work out. Even the sucessfull ones tend to have to work normal jobs before they reach it.

Show him some interviews of smart popstars to point out that you need reasoning and knowledge to get ahead even in music, managers won't always be around to hold his hand. Especially not in the beginning.

That's just some ideas of the top of my head.

 

[Johnny Impact]

it's actually more efficient to work on reasoning skills and know that whatever fact you need is right at your fingertips.

Bingo. Information does not become knowledge until you know how to use it. This is supposed to be the ultimate aim of education: to teach us how to apply what we know.

Having said that, however, there is some basic shit everyone should know. If I hold up a globe and you can't indicate your own country, you need help. If you reach adulthood without learning the difference between there/their/they're, be prepared to look like an idiot every time you write.

 

[Thyunda]

Anyhow, I completely forgot what I was talking about in the first place. Uh. Oh yeah! He asks me how to get ahead with his music...but if I give him advice, he disregards it entirely, unless I tell him to do what he's already doing. I do want him to get ahead. It just frustrates me that I do know what's best and that I can't persuade him to trust me. I just need somebody to help me teach him that mimicking and exaggerating the current music charts is not going to get him anywhere. I don't want to teach him facts, so to speak, I want to open him to facts. If I'm making sense.

But if he wants to do Pop music why not let him? Granted it doesn't sound like he'd be good at it if you wrote his only good songs and he lacks charisma, songwriting and charisma are extremely important in most music and maybe most of all so in Pop.

Tell him that very few people who try suceeds at music and that he has to learn to live in normal life it doesn't work out. Even the sucessfull ones tend to have to work normal jobs before they reach it.

Show him some interviews of smart popstars to point out that you need reasoning and knowledge to get ahead even in music, managers won't always be around to hold his hand. Especially not in the beginning.

That's just some ideas of the top of my head.

Because he's going nowhere with it right now. But, his belief is that charisma consists of fake smiles and sycophancy, so it's no good telling him its necessary. He's been taught that he has it. I don't know who the hell taught him all this stuff, but they've taught him wrong. Another bloody reason I hate acting schools. Acting cannot be taught. T'is a talent you either have or you don't.
Now if he accepted what I'm trying to teach him. I'm genuinely trying to help him. As somebody who is seriously not a fan of the pop industry, I'll look at it objectively. Autotune is a big no-no. You can use auto-tune as a gimmick, like T-Pain, but it cannot be used to replace talent. Justin Bieber is getting by on being young, 'adorable' and fresh-faced. Everybody's dream, eh? And all the teenage girls think he's to die for. Nobody really likes his music. They just like him.
My cousin is older than Bieber, and has nowhere near the childlike appeal. That one's out of the question.
Now why should anybody spend money on autotune if it comes from an uncharismatic source? Now my cousin can sing. I know he can. He DOES have a talent for music. He just needs to demonstrate that singing, and not believe that the world wants to hear autotune. Because it doesn't. Y'know what I mean, right? I'm telling him the world wants talent, and he's countering it by saying the world loves to hear autotune.

 

[Thyunda]

snip

Heh, reminds me of my friend and I. He's in between university years studying history. I haven't done history for three years. We indulge in debates about the world wars quite frequently. It's really quite fun. They go so quick...it starts with a lengthy point about something, then devolves into quickfire Q&A. He always wins. I manage to hold my own for a good ten questions, but some time after that, I'll get one wrong, and he'll tell me so, and the argument ends with a yell of 'FUCK!'

 

[Trolldor]

Why justify it?

Anybody who does not take pleasure in knowledge for knowledge's sake is not worth trying to educate.
There is an entire world of wonder out there, of useless trivia and revelatory beauty.
If you have no interest in that then you can fuck right off accomplishing nothing for the rest of your life.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

snip

Yeah i understand what you mean. But wasn't this thread about trying to knock some brains into his head? That was what i tried to give suggestions for anyway.

Auto-tune is really used because it has a nice sound that happens to have become very popular right now, it's a trend basically. Tell him that he will be left in the dust when the trend blows over and that he has to have other talents/skills if he wants to survive. Besides no-one is going to get famous by using auto-tune, it has been done so many times.

That's my assesment and suggestion for what to say. If he wants to do music and you want to help him improve i'd suggest asking for advice in BonsaiK's "Curious about the music industry" thread. He works at a label and probably knows the do's and dont's of any given genre.

 

[Thyunda]

snip

Yeah i understand what you mean. But wasn't this thread about trying to knock some brains into his head? That was what i tried to give suggestions for anyway.

Auto-tune is really used because it has a nice sound that happens to have become very popular right now, it's a trend basically. Tell him that he will be left in the dust when the trend blows over and that he has to have other talents/skills if he wants to survive. Besides no-one is going to get famous by using auto-tune, it has been done so many times.

That's my assesment and suggestion for what to say. If he wants to do music and you want to help him improve i'd suggest asking for advice in BonsaiK's "Curious about the music industry" thread. He works at a label and probably knows the do's and dont's of any given genre.

Brains are always useful though. I mean, if I can handle his audience so well that he has to keep coming to me for help, and I have literally no credibility in the music industry, then clearly my aptitude for learning is having a huge benefit. Brains are humanity's most important asset, since intelligence can be applied to absolutely anything. My need is for somebody to help me open his mind to learning...after all, you never know when you might need a random, pointless fact.

 

[Squallie Greenthumb]

It's a strange world out there when it comes to knowledge and who has it and who doesn't. I dropped out of high school and whenever I tell people that they always assume I'm dumb or that it was too hard for me (and being a proud pot smoker doesn't help that either). Yet I have more knowledge than a lot of my friends who graduated college. I'm just one of those lucky people who completely soaks up and retains everything I've ever learned which made the school system extremely frustrating for me. Being taught my times tables over and over again from 2nd grade until 8th was too much for me to put up with.

A large percentage of people who make it all the way through school just viewed it as a necessary step in life. What they were being taught in class wasn't knowledge it was just the answers to a test that was coming up that they needed to pass in order to move on to the next step. Then there was college where their parents paid for them to party and go through the whole "memorize to move on" thing all over again. But now that they're done with that and have their career, or are attempting to find it, almost everything they learned is gone. Yes the person who thought Europe was a country did at one point know differently but like they said it has nothing to do with their life now so why should they care?

The idea that knowledge is important is not something everybody has and unfortunately they never will so don't bother trying to force them. Just enjoy laughing at the Tufts graduate who fills out a job application saying "i relly want work for ur company".

 

[ace_of_something]

He sounds like my little sister. She's determined to not be "normal" by going to college and getting "an office job." She says college wouldn't teach her how to do her job, so there's no point in going. So she's going to be a makeup artist for fashion models/celebrities and just get a sugar daddy. All she watches is trash TV.

Basically, I don't try to push anything on her, because my parents have tried that already, and it only makes her resist more. I just talk about awesome experiences in college, all of the free money I get for going, etc. Now she's decided she's going to go too--but just for her associates. And if that works out, maybe she'll go higher.

And if she doesn't do anything? Well, I can't stop her. The sad fact is, sometimes you have to let people make mistakes. And when your cousin gets a taste of reality, he'll likely own up to it (assuming you don't rub it in).

However, if he really does listen to reach, try finding statistics for what he's trying to do. Show him his odds of hitting it big. Let professionals in his field tell him what you've been trying to, and maybe he'll listen.

You can also point out that artists use common knowledge for inspiration and innovation all the time, and point out examples in his field.

Tell her she could get a theater degree like nearly all makeup artists have. I do mean nearly all. Most theaters/studios won't hire a makeup artist without a portfolio you can't get a portfolio unless you get jobs. Can't get jobs without experience. How do you get XP? By taking drama, theater tech, and college courses where they are more or less forced to give you some work to build a portfolio.

That being said not EVERYONE needs to go to college this is a misconception that is part of the reason the job market it made of a basket of farts.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

Brains are always useful though.

I definitely agree, and i have posted my suggestions for trying to open his mind. Good luck!