Karma. A discussion.

[BonsaiK]

And here it is for you, fellow Escapists, what do you think of it? Do you think it exists? And if you do, have you been affected by it?

I believe in a slightly more down-to-earth version of Karma which could be described partly as traditional karma and partly as an extension of the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" concept.

If I do nice things for people, there's a greater chance that those people will do nice things for me in return, or think well of me in a way that might impact my life positively down the track. All people won't do this always, but some people will definitely do this sometimes. My latest girlfriend, my latest job, and several recent good opportunities would simply not have happened to me if I didn't know people who thought I was an okay person thanks to having had past experiences of dealing with me that were positive.

Karma won't stop an earthquake, I don't believe in that "spiritual connectivity" part of it. However if I survive the earthquake but my house turns to rubble good karma means that my friends might be more likely to put me up in temporary housing while I sort my shit out and get back on my feet.

Practically, karma is just a way to keep people in Indian religions doing nice shit for each other in the same way that certain parts of Christian doctrine achieve the same thing in western society ("do unto others" etc). Therefore I support karma in principle, because I think people too stupid to realise that being nice to people is just a smart and logical way to proceed in the world might possibly need another more esoteric reason to be nice to people or they may just have nothing keeping them from falling off the rails. If it fills that void for people I think that's a good thing.

 

[Scout Tactical]

How about people who get offended man up and deal with it? Not everyone shares the same viewpoint.

1. I was answering a question.

2. I'm not saying not to discuss it. I was recommending that the subject be treated with respect. You should always respect other peoples' beliefs as their own, regardless of how you feel about them. That's basic manners 101. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, you've probably missed out on a few lessons.

No one supports freedom of speech and discussion of topics, particularly controversial ones, more than I, but it is important to always preserve a scholarly air of discourse, lest discussion devolve into simple slinging of "that's dumb!" or "you're dumb!" That being said, if you'd like to take the discussion further, I'd request we make it a private message chat, rather than take up space in this thread with unrelated banter.

 

[Benny Blanco]

I don't know about the reincarnation thing: I don't remember any past incarnations, but then again, that's the point, right?

In this world though, although the evil often die rich and happy and the good often die poor and miserable, what goes around has a tendency of coming around.

As far as respecting the religions of others, I do try, most religions have some kernels of wisdom, but I don't think any religion is perfect in its entirety and sometimes things seem a little too pat:

"Oh, this inequality? It's because you did something horrible in your last life! Now go polish my gold-plated Rolls Royce, you filthy untouchable."

Also, is religion some kind of magical dickhead licence?

If I do something truly horrible (genocide, FGM etc.) because of a strongly held secular belief, it's unforgivable, but if it's because of a religious belief, it's OK?

How so?

 

[LawlessSquirrel]

Karma, in its conceptual, non-religious form, doesn't seem to work in my opinion. By which I mean there's no unseen balance that gives good people rewards and bad people equal punishment.

I do think there's a psychological aspect though. For example, you're a jerk, then suddenly you run into a window. It would be fair to consider that karma, even if there's no reason for it. Basically, I think it's just a human concept to simplify something without tangible meaning, like 'luck'.

 

[ObsessiveSketch]

Karma, known in Eugene, Oregon by it's local name, "Juju", does not exist. Auburn won the National Championship, KYU EEE DEE.

 

[[.redacted]]

Karma's a *****:

Spoiler: Seriously.

[sub]Sorry for the little League injoke.[/sub]

OT: I don't believe in karma, I mean it hasn't got to me y-

 

[guntotingtomcat]

Karma is nicked from eastern theology and is now sold as weak, groundless, warped, pseudo-spirituality. It's as likely to be true as reincarnation and enlightenment.

 

[ironwill]

I believe in Karma, but I don't know when it'll come and get me. Just like what you were saying, people treat people bad, and get everything but I believe a time in the future will come and will balance it's self out.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

My personal idea of karma isn't about getting a personal reward for being good, else you're not being good for good's sake, but for a reward later on.

MY concept of karma is that there's a 'pool' of karma worldwide, every good act grows it a tiny bit, and every evil act shrinks it, and if everyone started doing good, obviously the world would become a better place from it, and as people turn to evil, the world descends into a downward spiral.

So my theory is, you should be good, and try to help others to be good, because, in a tiny, tiny way, it benefits everyone in the world.

Individual karma doesn't work because Simon Cowell and Piers Morgan both exist, AND get to be rich and famous.

 

[guntotingtomcat]

Can I ask what that has to do with this?

Karma is a central aspect to the Indian religions (namely Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism). Making a thread where you declare it's false may be highly offensive to people who are of one of those faiths, just as a thread claiming Christianity is false would be offensive.

Please consider these things more carefully when making threads.

EDIT: Further reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

How about people who get offended man up and deal with it? Not everyone shares the same viewpoint.

Seconded. People have every right to say that something doesn't make sense to them, whether it's part of a religion or not.

Thirded. Just because it is a 'well established' belief doesn't mean it shouldn't be subject to fair criticism and interpretation. Simply voicing an opinion, even a contradictory one, should be allowed, as long as it's reasonable and not maliciously motivated.
'That's offensive!' is too easy, and too cowardly, a defense.

 

[octafish]

Thing is, that's not what Karma is.
Karma, under Buddhist teachings, is your life direction, the path you should take in your lifetime to achieve Moksha. Moksha is freedom from the cycle of reincarnation.

Now, you may not achieve Moksha at the end of this life, you may have gone against your Karma in previous lives & that has pushed your soul away from Moksha. But by following your Karma in this life you come closer to it, & your soul may eventually attain it. Additionally, as you come closer to Moksha your reincarnations become 'higher', animals regarded as more gracious & intelligent.

Not this "do unto others & the universe will do unto you" bollocks.

Thank you, I thought I was going to be the one to explain this. The western misconception of karma is pretty prevalent. OP you are correct what you think of as karma is bullshit, because you miss the point of what karma is.

 

[Altorin]

It's not "true". There's no "karmic balance" because there's no such thing as predetermination. Reality is made up by a crazy amount of random occurrences spotted with bits of human ingenuity.

But it's also not a bad way to live your life. Keeps you doing good things, and in a culture where everyone believed it, it would be as "true" as it can be. Everyone would be doing good things for each other, ergo, what goes around comes around, cause everyone's going in the same direction.

 

[Realitycrash]

Scientifically? It's a load of crap. However, as a matter personal belief, I state that everyone, in the end, gets what they deserve.

Basically, what you just said is just as big of a load of bollocks as karma is. I hope you realise that.

Was about to say something else, but then I read that Christianity is what brings people in Western countries to act nice to each others. Now isn't that a fine idea.

What I said except that Karma is bullshit, is that people tend to forget that every action has a consequence, and that consequence is what you deserve. And no, that isn't bollocks. Go look up Newton. (and while your at it, check David Hume.)

 

[Realitycrash]

snip

Because the chick that ran away from her abusive father totally deserved being locked up in a dungeon and raped for 20 years, having 7 children with him and so on. Makes perfect sense.

Hahahaha. Reducio Ad Abusurdum, sir. First, I said "direct" and "simple-track". Every action has a consequence, and you have to deal with that consequence. I doubt that the DIRECT consequence of running away from your father will be that you get locked up and raped. Second, my point was something I believe in a feeling of morals, not something that is absolute and scientifically proven. It was more of a nod towards "Behave like an ass, and people will behave like an ass towards you/Die by the Sword, live by the Sword", ect etc. People that do BAD STUFF tend to have BAD STUFF happen to them as the direct consequence of the BAD STUFF they did.
Running away from your parents isn't what I was 'noding' towards. But still, your example isn't a direct consequence anyway (A direct consequence would be more 'I ran away, now I'm freezing/hungry'.) and a rather extreme Reducio Ad Absurdum.

 

[Realitycrash]

snip

You said that in the end everyone gets what they deserve. If you believe that kids in 3rd world countries deserve living a horrible life for the simple act of being born, or that the guy simply walking down the street deserved to be mugged and robbed of everything but his underpants, you're either depraved or working with a wondrously different meaning of the word than I and everyone else is.

Once again, I will repeat what I am pretty sure you understand, and just ignoring willfully; I said that in the end I feel everyone get what they deserve, based on what actions they have taken towards other people. Being born is not an action, please, so that argument is invalid. I also said that this was a nod towards, and not rule of law. Meaning that it is something that is to be taken with a several grains of salt.
No, not every rapist goes to jail, and not every asshole gets called out on it, but from my observations of the real world, people eat the consequences of their own actions plenty enough.
Now, if you make another Reducio Ad Absurdum, even after I have made myself clear of my intentions, I'll assume you are trolling. Feel free to speculate about the validity of actions and reactions though (I.e Hume).

 

[dvd_72]

The idea of Karma seems to fit with physics if you think about it. Every action has an equal and opposit reaction. You do good, then equal good will come back to you.

In actuality, people are much much MUCH more complicated. There are those who will see the good you do as a weakness and try to exploit it. These people are bastards, and we hope that, once everyone around them realises that, that he will no longer have a shoulder to lean on so to speak. We also hope that good people will, over time, gather likeminded people around them, forming strong bonds of friendship.

And let's face it, doing the good thing is sometimes hard. Sometimes even really hard. It's up to you to decide if you do good for the sake of Karma, or if you do good simply because it's the right thing to do. Do you help so you can call in a favor later? Or simply because you're just that kind of guy?

Take a look at yourself and see if you can find out why you do what you do. Is Karma something you really believed in? Or is it something you needed to believe so that you could do right? Are you angry at Karma, or just the world in general?

Personally, I like the idea of Karma, but I don't believe I'm bound by it. I do good things because that's just me. I also do selfish things because that's just who I am. I believe that one who gives selflessly to anyone who asks eventually becomes a slave to the needs of others.

But hey, that's all just my opinion. You don't need to take it to heart

 

[Ranorak]

both good and bad are subjective believes to a person or group, anyway. And therefor can't possibly be held up to any standard to be rewarded with.

And to everyone calling the Topic Creator respect-less; He was very respectful, he didn't curse, he wasn't rude, he just questioned something you might believe in. That's not lack of respect, that's just a different opinion.

 

[DYin01]

Can I ask what that has to do with this?

Karma is a central aspect to the Indian religions (namely Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism). Making a thread where you declare it's false may be highly offensive to people who are of one of those faiths, just as a thread claiming Christianity is false would be offensive.

Please consider these things more carefully when making threads.

EDIT: Further reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

If you think someone not agreeing with your way of life is offensive, you've got some serious thinking to do. He did not slander it in any way, he merely disagreed with it. How is that offensive?

 

[Cheesus333]

I used to believe in Karma. More because I wanted it to be true, to give me a reason to do good. A selfish reason, maybe, but if I'm doing good then what's the harm?

But of course, sooner or later you either develop an unhealthy conviction in a flawed ideal... or you learn the cold, hard truth that life is just unfair and chaotic. The only thing humans can do is make it fair, where possible (see: the law).

Don't get me wrong, I still try to be a good person, but for different reasons. I don't think anymore that it'll somehow make better things come my way, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to live with myself if I feel like a decent human being.

 

[HellspawnCandy]

A lot of westerners apparently view Karma wrong. Don't rely on my info on this but I believe we do view it wrong. Not really a system of be good get rewards but just a belief of being nice makes things nice I guess. I have no idea what I'm talking about.