Karma. A discussion.

[Twilight_guy]

Karma as a force of the universe doesn't exist but I guarantee that if you treat people like crap long enough its going to come back to haunt you when the stories get out or you need to interact with one of these people again. On the other hand, I think acting like an asshole is just a waste anyways. Is it really that much harder to be nice or at least decent?

 

[Aeshi]

Karma's just a bunch of bullshit to make people feel good or guilty depending on their choices.
No, it doesn't exist.


I've seen far too many good people suffer and far too many horrible excuses for humans thrive and succeed in life to believe that.

It's a nice thought that maybe one day your good choices will be rewarded or that those who wrong you will get theirs in the future, but that's all it is; a nice thought.

Couldn't have put it better.

 

[Instant K4rma]

Sure, I believe in it to a certain degree. I don't think it controls my life, but I do believe that if you do bad things, bad things will befall you. That, and it made for a great John Lennon song and a great username.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Thing is, that's not what Karma is.
Karma, under Buddhist teachings, is your life direction, the path you should take in your lifetime to achieve Moksha. Moksha is freedom from the cycle of reincarnation.

Now, you may not achieve Moksha at the end of this life, you may have gone against your Karma in previous lives & that has pushed your soul away from Moksha. But by following your Karma in this life you come closer to it, & your soul may eventually attain it. Additionally, as you come closer to Moksha your reincarnations become 'higher', animals regarded as more gracious & intelligent.

Not this "do unto others & the universe will do unto you" bollocks.

Confusing Karma with Dharma there mate. Karma is just your actions in which you lay the seeds for the fruits of your next life. What must people think of Karma, the end result, is just that, the end result of their Karma. Karma is the beginning, not the end, of a chain of events.

Edit: For the whole offending other people thing. It wasn't so much that he disagreed so much that he cam across as a cock.

 

[PurplePlatypus]

The idea of karma, some natural force being aware and dealing out punishment/reward accordingly? I think not.

Not to say our actions don?t have consequences or effects. Of course these effects don?t always line up with how we would like it to work out, with good people receiving reward and bad people being punished. On the other hand, social structures exist, nice people do end up being liked sometimes, good deeds sometimes do get recognized and we have an entire system set up to try and punish bad/harmful behavior.

 

[Redingold]

The universe doesn't care what you do. Karma's not real.

However, the other day my friend insulted me, and then instantly slipped over on some muddy grass. That seemed quite karmic.

 

[Altorin]

Thing is, that's not what Karma is.
Karma, under Buddhist teachings, is your life direction, the path you should take in your lifetime to achieve Moksha. Moksha is freedom from the cycle of reincarnation.

Now, you may not achieve Moksha at the end of this life, you may have gone against your Karma in previous lives & that has pushed your soul away from Moksha. But by following your Karma in this life you come closer to it, & your soul may eventually attain it. Additionally, as you come closer to Moksha your reincarnations become 'higher', animals regarded as more gracious & intelligent.

Not this "do unto others & the universe will do unto you" bollocks.

Confusing Karma with Dharma there mate. Karma is just your actions in which you lay the seeds for the fruits of your next life. What must people think of Karma, the end result, is just that, the end result of their Karma. Karma is the beginning, not the end, of a chain of events.

Edit: For the whole offending other people thing. It wasn't so much that he disagreed so much that he cam across as a cock.

gotta remember that the concept of "Karma" is used in many very varied spiritual practices and could potentially be different means to different ends in all of them.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Thing is, that's not what Karma is.
Karma, under Buddhist teachings, is your life direction, the path you should take in your lifetime to achieve Moksha. Moksha is freedom from the cycle of reincarnation.

Now, you may not achieve Moksha at the end of this life, you may have gone against your Karma in previous lives & that has pushed your soul away from Moksha. But by following your Karma in this life you come closer to it, & your soul may eventually attain it. Additionally, as you come closer to Moksha your reincarnations become 'higher', animals regarded as more gracious & intelligent.

Not this "do unto others & the universe will do unto you" bollocks.

Confusing Karma with Dharma there mate. Karma is just your actions in which you lay the seeds for the fruits of your next life. What must people think of Karma, the end result, is just that, the end result of their Karma. Karma is the beginning, not the end, of a chain of events.

Edit: For the whole offending other people thing. It wasn't so much that he disagreed so much that he cam across as a cock.

gotta remember that the concept of "Karma" is used in many very varied spiritual practices and could potentially be different means to different ends in all of them.

He was referring to Buddhism specifically. I replyed under that premise seeing as I AM a Buddhist

 

[Nouw]

Can I ask what that has to do with this?

Karma is a central aspect to the Indian religions (namely Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism). Making a thread where you declare it's false may be highly offensive to people who are of one of those faiths, just as a thread claiming Christianity is false would be offensive.

Please consider these things more carefully when making threads.

EDIT: Further reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

Well just to make them feel better how about this. Christianity is complete and utter bullshit its entirely based on false pretenses to make people feel better and subdue the populatiion. While were on the subject so is all religion, its complete bullshit and we would be better off without it.

Hmm... there goes a metric-fuckton of people right there. Hope they have fun trying to find meaning and purpose in life again, congratulations. I really hope you're trolling right now >.>

 

[Altorin]

He was referring to Buddhism specifically. I replyed under that premise seeing as I AM a Buddhist

I wasn't calling your statement into question, no matter what it looks like. I was merely injecting that fact into the discussion. "Karma" is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Even the religions that use Karma as their social morality backbone (ie, almost all of them in one form or another) all have different interpretations of the causality of being good or bad.

People (admittedly myself included) seem to be focusing in on the idea of Karma as being a balancer in a single lifetime. Like, I steal some money, something gets taken away from me by some sort of cosmic scale. But most applications of Karma have a much broader view of things. You build up karma in your life, and then when you die, it's weighed on the scale. The measuring of the scale happens when you die, not as you live your life.

In all honesty, I think the idea of a cosmic scale is hokum (although I completely respect your right to believe that it is not). The idea that you're building up Karma to escape some horrible fate, be it hell, or another life as a snail, really does a disservice to yourself. You should build up Karma not because you'll get the reward of a nice afterlife, or in the average person's view, nice things happening to you in this life. You should want to build up Karma because it makes you feel good to help other people.

again, going off on a tangent as I often do. note that I don't know you, so I'm not actually talking about you. I'm just talking about the concept of Karma.

Hmm... there goes a metric-fuckton of people right there. Hope they have fun trying to find meaning and purpose in life again, congratulations. I really hope you're trolling right now >.>

I think he's the worst kind of troll - the sincere troll.

 

[Wolfram23]

I don't believe that there's some great godlike thing tallying up our good and bad deeds. That's silly. Here's my take on karma. People who do good things usually do it to other people, or at the least, other people will be happy about the deed (maybe you saved their dog). Conversely, "bad karma" means you did something maybe selfish or simply mean/bad.

Down the road, you might need a favour or have an opportunity come up. Generally speaking, "good karma" type people behave that way most of the time while "bad karma" type people behave that way most of time time. Long story short, other people will like the "good karma" person better and shun the other.

So basically, being nice to people gets you things. Being a dick might get some short term selfish gains, but it'll bite you in the ass when you are in need.

 

[Pyromaniak3]

Karma?!?! I laugh in the face of karma. There is no such thing as karma. Karma is just an excuse for people who think they are doing good to ***** at people who who do "evil". If karma were real then well hell I'd be screwed.

 

[Lyx]

I find the reaction of some antitheists in this thread quite telling. I mean (taking the popular definition of karma), this isn't about some purely invented concept that has no true basis at all. This for once is a concept, which's predictions actually have a logically sound base. If one would change it from a "rule" to a "tendency", it would even work according to prediction.

And yet, some fanatics still react with blind irrational repulsion. I'd venture to say that this is the kind of people, who would also fall for the following trap: Take any scientifically accepted concept, then change the forms (symbols, etc) to something that "looks" more esoteric, without actually altering the relationship patterns. I bet the very same people would decry such a concept, simply because the symbols are different.

 

[The Afrodactyl]

On the whole, I tend not to believe in it. Occassionally though, something'll happen, and I'll realise it's because of something that I've done.

I find that if it does exist, it's more for the punishing of negative actions, rather than rewarding a positive one.

 

[theheroofaction]

The concept of karma is both universal and simple, If you're a jerk, then people will treat you like you deserve.

All "Karma" beyond that is no less superstitious than "luck".

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Funny topic this is!!! Because most of the people still think in order of things they do or don't to deserve for things they did or didn't!! Well, let's pretend you were born on this planet not entitled to anyting and not deserving anyting. NOTHING is or has ever signed a contract with us to be the fundament of reason with us... ever!!! It's 'just'the way we try to connect in this mealstorm of chaos that gives it a (great) value of being here. But it's all up to YOU!!! NOTHING in life is obliged to serve it to you on a plate.

 

[Scout Tactical]

If you think someone not agreeing with your way of life is offensive, you've got some serious thinking to do. He did not slander it in any way, he merely disagreed with it. How is that offensive?

I suspect if you read my other post, you'll know.

Well just to make them feel better how about this. Christianity is complete and utter bullshit its entirely based on false pretenses to make people feel better and subdue the populatiion. While were on the subject so is all religion, its complete bullshit and we would be better off without it.

First, you should probably notice what I was getting at is that it's subject matter belongs in the religion and politics board, rather than off topic. The fact that you failed to realize this is... disappointing. Your militant opposition to religion has blinded you in this respect, and your faith in hate has closed your eyes to logic and intelligent discourse.

Second, you don't solve a problem of respect by disrespecting other things. This is a classic mistake made by children around the age of seven. I know this because my mother teaches first grade, and you sound suspiciously like one of her students, if better at typing. If you'd like to continue the discussion in a few years when you've matured, I'd be happy to.

Third, you, much like DYin, should have bothered to scroll a few posts down to read my follow up post here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.266926-Karma-A-discussion#10189608]. I suspect you were in such a hurry to troll that you forgot to gather more information.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I've already made my case for karma being a long term, worldwide concept and not just a 'drop litter and fall down a manhole' kinda deal, but as for this respect thing:

Most people who believe something can handle you saying 'I believe you're wrong' 'Or that idea just doesn't work', but when you go 'Karma is bullshit, the whole concept is bollocks and you're idiots for believing it', that's disrespect, it's that simple.

I also expect I've been guilty of it before.

At least with Karma you're not making anyone else's life harder thru your beliefs.

 

[A Gentlemenly Moron]

Gentlemenlieness is a lifestyle that makes karma so easy. Be nice to people, have manners, hold the door open for ladies, and if anyone starts to be a jerk, whip out the revolver and blast their head off. Plus, cool hat.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Doesn't exist. I refuse to believe in something that has no evidence or logical basis underneath it. Besides, you shouldn't need a reward to be a nice person.