Karma Lost

Recommended Videos

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
5,161
0
0
There is something in video games that bothers me. And that is why we must almost always play the "good guys" or the "heroic freedom fighters". Obviously, there are exception to this rule, such as the GTA series, but all in all it is the general rule. And while I don't mind it....it bugs me that I don't even have the option to be the "bad guy", or use my own logic and feeling to decide who is good and bad.

Examples of this are numerous. Fallout 3 is a great game, I can't deny that. But why can't I be who I want to be? No matter what you do, you ultimatey *SPOLIERS* wind up helping the Brotherhood of Steel. What happens if I think they're wrong - what if I want the Enclave to win? I have the option to wipe the Enclave....but not the Brotherhood. Even the "neutral" path supports the Brotherhood. Why can't I simply act in the way I want, actually affecting the outcome of the game, and having to deal with the consequences? Why must I be funelled down the "good", "bad" or "neutrak" path?

Red Faction: Guerrilla is another example of this. While the game itself will undoubtably be great, it makes the same decision of making me some puny little "freedom fighter" against some big, oppresive government/police/corporation thingy. What about those of us who don't think he is a "freedom fighter"? What about those of us who think the "Red Faction" are just bunch of punk-ass snobs who deserve no mercy other then a quick curb stomp to the face? Why do we have to your idea of the "good guy"? Further, why make a game about destruction....and the make us be the faction that doesn't have the toys to actually make use of it? You can't have true destruction without tactical missile strikes people.

Some of the best times can be had in "Bad Guy" and "Gray" games where you're either the bad guy or allowed to make your own choices, and the world reacts. Crackdown was immensely fun and enjoyable for two reasons - because of the well-designed gameplay and (you'd know this if you finished the story) the fact that you're the law - you're the government, smacking down the crime and the people, causing copious amounts of colleteral damage along the way. Mass Effect is one of the best "gray" games to date, which gives you a gun, a mission, and sits on the sidelins drumming its fingers, waiting to see what you do. It doesn't judge you; it just lets you do you thing and tell you the results at the end. Even Fable II, a game about choices, shoehorns you at the end, sending you decidedly down one path or another.

I mean, I'm not against "good guy" games...but come on. Gives us a little wiggle room here devs - can't I be the guy who kidnaps the princess for once?
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
3,133
0
0
Being the good guy is never enough for me. And if you seriously want to be villainous, go play the VS modes of Left 4 Dead, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory or any multiplayer Mario game with Bowser in them.
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,021
0
0
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Oh yeah. You can do anything except kill children. But you can get them taken from you!
 

TheFacelessOne

New member
Feb 13, 2009
2,350
0
0
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Yeah but in the end you still save the world. You can't join Lucien and go have an epic "Fuck the world" party.
 

RheynbowDash

New member
Jan 26, 2009
1,386
0
0
Fable II is an example where your actions dictate your apperance.

Good = Blue glowing lightning bolt tattoos and a halo.

Evil = Red glowing lightning bolt tattoos and devil horns.
 

FredFredburgur

New member
Apr 13, 2009
206
0
0
Yeah, it would be time consuming and probably require a lot fo work but it would be awesome to have.

Like why can't we play as the giant invading alien/monster/big corporate/whatever force that is destroying the resistance and has all the advantages, in oy game I know of you start as a giant corporation and when you change sides, to the resistance guys, the strengths you had become the weaknesses of your enemies, I won't say anymore details but there is a Zero Punctuation review about it.
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
5,161
0
0
TheFacelessOne said:
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Yeah but in the end you still save the world. You can't join Lucien and go have an epic "Fuck the world" party.
Which strikes me as strange....because thats exactly what you can do at the end of Fable 1.

And I'm talking about the overall story here, not your one or two little isolated instances of malcontent.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
9,830
0
0
In Oblivion you can join the Thief Guild or the Dark Brotherhood, and become a vampire. Uber Cool and also Uber Evil. Not to mention any Warhammer (40k or otherwise) game where you can play as Chaos...
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
5,161
0
0
Trivun said:
In Oblivion you can join the Thief Guild or the Dark Brotherhood, and become a vampire. Uber Cool and also Uber Evil. Not to mention any Warhammer (40k or otherwise) game where you can play as Chaos...
Overall story here....you still save the world at the end.

Even if a few midgets die along the way.
 
Mar 17, 2009
4,094
0
0
Yeah, that's one of the main problems with games today, developers keep touting on about how you can be good or evil, but in the end that really never has any impact on the story anyway.
 

scotth266

Wait when did I get a sub
Jan 10, 2009
5,201
0
0
Onyx Oblivion said:
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Oh yeah. You can do anything except kill children. But you can get them taken from you!
And remember: when designing games, hide your children [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HideYourChildren].

But the limited narrative ability of games for the moment restricts what they can do other than force you down limited paths. If you're looking for games that try to defy the formula, go Bioware: they at least make an attempt.
 

keyper159

New member
Dec 13, 2008
407
0
0
Trivun said:
In Oblivion you can join the Thief Guild or the Dark Brotherhood, and become a vampire. Uber Cool and also Uber Evil.
But you still have to save the whole fucking world. No matter how long you put it off you have to close every on of those stupid fucking portals.

sirdanrhodes said:
Mirrors Edge, you're basically taking down a utopia.
This is true, you basically are disturbing everyone's lives, ruining a utopian city, and all to save your sister. No matter how you twist the story you are the bad guy.
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,021
0
0
TheFacelessOne said:
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Yeah but in the end you still save the world. You can't join Lucien and go have an epic "Fuck the world" party.
Yeah, but afterwords you can go back and kill the townspeople and up their rent. Bwa ha ha! You pay me double! Bwa ha ha!

My Evil Land Lord dreams came true!
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,021
0
0
scotth266 said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
GodsOneMistake said:
Fable 2 gives you a lot of room to do and act how you want
Oh yeah. You can do anything except kill children. But you can get them taken from you!
And remember: when designing games, hide your children [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HideYourChildren].

But the limited narrative ability of games for the moment restricts what they can do other than force you down limited paths. If you're looking for games that try to defy the formula, go Bioware: they at least make an attempt.
I'm not so sure about Mass Effect. The actions you make don't ripple very much in that game...Each quest seems to only affect itself and the people involved. And anything evil you do is generally more of an asshole action than an evil action. Because you are still a soldier in the Alliance, even with your Spectre status.
 

MarsProbe

Circuitboard Seahorse
Dec 13, 2008
2,372
0
0
I agree, it would be good to have more games where you play the bad guy, or at least get to stray into the morally grey area.

One thing I would say, especially in relation to your thoughts regarding Red Faction : Guerilla, I imagine the reason they make you the small underdog faction is because well, would it really be as fun to be part of the all powerful government with acces to the most potent weapons right from the word go? I don't think so personally.

As someone else referred to Mirrors Edge, I'll go with that again. Would the game have been anywhere near as fun if instead of being an unarmoured and unarmed free runner, you were instead one of the tough riot cops armed with a machine gun? Sometimes it can be fun to play the little guy, sticking it to the man... Whereas if you were the big evil corporation/government, you would probably just feel inclined to carpet bomb all the rebels off the face of the planet.
 

scotth266

Wait when did I get a sub
Jan 10, 2009
5,201
0
0
Onyx Oblivion said:
I'm not so sure about Mass Effect. The actions you make don't ripple very much in that game...Each quest seems to only affect itself and the people involved. And anything evil you do is generally more of an asshole action than an evil action. Because you are still a soldier in the Alliance, even with your Spectre status.
Like I said, they make an attempt. I didn't say it always worked, or to the degree that people want it to :D