Keystone Pipe Line Leak Spews Oil Into Kansas' Water

[immortalfrieza]

Point in case, you have accepted oil spills are just a thing that happens, and blaming people for being near.

I'm blaming people for choosing to be near, that's very different from being forced to be near. There's just as little reason for someone to choose to move near an oil pipeline as oil companies have to build an oil pipeline near people live. That is to say, zero.

At some point people have to learn to actually take personal responsibility for their own choices.

 

[Baffle]

At some point people have to learn to actually take personal responsibility for their own choices.

What could the people have done to stop to pipeline failure?

 

[Silvanus]

To use your analogy, it's more like "You knew I was a serial killer that regularly murders everybody on the block before you decided to move here. Yet you decided to move here anyway."

We are repeatedly assured by the authorities, companies themselves, and even the regulators that they don't pose a realistic threat.

So it's more like a serial killer whose record has been expunged and suppressed. You move to a new area, and the authorities tell you nothing-- if you ask about it, they specifically say there are no threats. Then the killer strikes, and the victim is blamed for dying.

Accidents happen sooner or later to even the best most robust system, and it's not like oil pipelines failing is a new thing. If the residents decided to live near an oil pipeline that was already there before they moved there then they knew and accepted the risks involved. It's like working at any incredibly dangerous job, you knew there was a chance however remote you could be badly injured or killed despite every possible safety measure before you went in but you made the choice to do so anyway.

The level of risk has been intentionally and massively misrepresented to the residents. Its not like someone working at an "incredibly dangerous job"-- it's like someone taking a job that regulators assured you is minimal risk, which then turns out to be hazardous when it's too late.

Nobody is taking on known, quantified risk in advance here. Risk is being concealed. That's the whole damn point.

 

[Chimpzy]

The whole "personal responsibility for choosing to move near a pipeline" assumes that all 21 000 inhabitants of Mill Creek, which is where the pipeline spill happened, moved there in the last 12 years, which is how long that pipeline has been there. I'd call those odds low.

And before anyone says "companies wouldn't put pipelines near residential areas". There are actually no regulations in the US for how far away from existing homes a pipeline needs to be constructed. So yes, they do put them near residential areas. All the time. Which is why they're protested so often. Why do it? For what reason? Because it's cheaper than going around, of course. Almost literal cutting corners. And generous campaign donations and lobbying will ensure authorities sign off on it. Or give the company special permission to pump at higher pressures than allowed under agency regulations, even unusually accident prone pipelines on their 22nd offense. Well, that's 23 now.

Funny tho, there are rules for how far from an existing pipeline a new house, business or place of public assembly needs to be. It's 50 feet.

 

[Baffle]

it's like someone taking a job that regulators assured you is minimal risk, which then turns out to be hazardous when it's too late.

CEO of FTX?

 

[Silvanus]

The whole "personal responsibility for choosing to move near a pipeline" assumes that all 21 000 inhabitants of Mill Creek, which is where the pipeline spill happened, moved there in the last 12 years, which is how long that pipeline has been there. I'd call those odds low.

And before anyone says "companies wouldn't put pipelines near residential areas". There are actually no regulations in the US for how far away from existing homes a pipeline needs to be constructed. So yes, they do put them near residential areas. All the time. Which is why they're protested so often. Why do it? For what reason? Because it's cheaper than going around, of course. Almost literal cutting corners. And generous campaign donations and lobbying will ensure authorities sign off on it. Or give the company special permission to pump at higher pressures than allowed under agency regulations, even unusually accident prone pipelines on their 22nd offense. Well, that's 23 now.

Funny tho, there are rules for how far from an existing pipeline a new house, business or place of public assembly needs to be. It's 50 feet.

The vast majority of people have a basic level of trust that the authorities would not allow people to live in environments they know are unsafe.

People can call that naive or ignorant or whatever, but that's the reality of it. People believe there are systems and structures in place to ensure a basic level of security and safety. It's the point of the social contract. And it's also been fostered by the media (and sometimes by the bodies that are supposed to act as regulators). It's not the fault of people for buying into this: they're not stupid, but they have been misled.

 

[Silvanus]

CEO of FTX?

Hah, funny you should say that. The current CEO took the job after it had declared bankruptcy, in full knowledge that it had-- he specialises in recovering lost funds for those who put their money into failed businesses. And after he took the helm even he said FTX was the worst he'd ever seen.

 

[Buyetyen]

I'm blaming people for choosing to be near, that's very different from being forced to be near.

Yeah, how dare they have the audacity to live somewhere that rich people want to build unsafe infrastructure on. Peasants need to learn their fuckin' place.
/s

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The current CEO took the job after it had declared bankruptcy, in full knowledge that it had-- he specialises in recovering lost funds for those who put their money into failed businesses. And after he took the helm even he said FTX was the worst he'd ever seen.

And that was the guy who'd been brought in to clean up after Enron. What does that tell you?

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

And that was the guy who'd been brought in to clean up after Enron. What does that tell you?

He loves to strip mine failed companies of their remaining assets... all for the investor class. Fuck debtors, they get any scraps left over. Workers entitlements? HAHAHAHAHA. Sure. Right. Good one, Centurion, good one.

 

[immortalfrieza]

What could the people have done to stop to pipeline failure?

Nothing, the residents should've assumed it was going to happen eventually and taken measures to minimize the damage accordingly, just like the oil company should have. Just like everybody shouldn't have assumed the Titanic was never going to sink and thus put enough lifeboats onto it for everyone on board. Murphy's Law is cruel and uncompromising and thus tends to bite everyone in the ass who doesn't consider it.

 

[Elijin]

Nothing, the residents should've assumed it was going to happen eventually and taken measures to minimize the damage accordingly, just like the oil company should have. Just like everybody shouldn't have assumed the Titanic was never going to sink and thus put enough lifeboats onto it for everyone on board. Murphy's Law is cruel and uncompromising and thus tends to bite everyone in the ass who doesn't consider it.

This isn't property damage. The oil is contaminating drinking water sources. What exactly do you think the residents should have done to minimise that.

Let's cut away the fat, all your contributions to this thread boil down to "poor people get what they deserve for being poor."
Didn't move away from the pipeline? Poor.
Moved near the pipeline? Poor, moving where they could afford.
Residents should have done more to prevent damage to their local water supply? Poor. The ways to protect the water supply are through lobbying or massive infrastructure projects.

So yeah, kindly fuck off with your oil industry apologist, anti poor, advocating.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The residents have been protesting for years saying this would happen, mind, they were just ignored.

 

[Kwak]

"we went ahead with the project after extensive community consultation" no doubt.

I'm blaming people for choosing to be near, that's very different from being forced to be near. There's just as little reason for someone to choose to move near an oil pipeline as oil companies have to build an oil pipeline near people live. That is to say, zero.

Or, that is the only affordable area in their price range.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

The residents have been protesting for years saying this would happen, mind, they were just ignored.

Or beaten and arrested by cops and the national guard.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

"we went ahead with the project after extensive community consultation" no doubt.

The oil business community is still a community.

 

[Baffle]

Hey everyone, it's time to start boiling your drinking water again - the water company are no longer responsible for keep the faeces out. You thought that was their job?! What are you, an idiot?!

 

[Silvanus]

Nothing, the residents should've assumed it was going to happen eventually and taken measures to minimize the damage accordingly, just like the oil company should have. Just like everybody shouldn't have assumed the Titanic was never going to sink and thus put enough lifeboats onto it for everyone on board. Murphy's Law is cruel and uncompromising and thus tends to bite everyone in the ass who doesn't consider it.

Do you consider it the fault of the passengers of the Titanic that they died?

 

[Baffle]

Do you consider it the fault of the passengers of the Titanic that they died?

Well, they didn't:

1. Pack their own life boats.
2. Do a course in advanced seamanship.
3. Push the captain to one side and take the wheel to steer the ship carefully around the iceberg.
4. Take measures against the depth of the sea (some sort of lengthy stilts might have been appropriate).
5. Wear thermals.

I think you can draw your own conclusions about culpability.

 

[Buyetyen]

taken measures to minimize the damage accordingly

Name 3.