Kickstarter Not Built for Ouya Failure

[Mattlore]

Ok, so can someone bring me up to speed? Has the Ouya actually failed, or is this speculation based on it's life cycle?

 

[Royas]

I've assumed that any money I've put on Kickstarter was an investment, and therefor subject to risk. I pretty much assume the money is gone. I may get something out of it, I'm gambling on that, but I'm only investing in projects I believe in and only pledging money I can afford to lose. And if something fails, oh well. I didn't go in blind, and neither did any other investors. The terms of service are very clear on that.

 

[MorganL4]

All this about Ouya's failure, is there any evidence that the project has hit rocky ground? Are we looking at a potential dud? Or was this simply a "What if" scenario?

 

[samahain]

I guess Kickstarter is like any investment: it's a risk. It's not wether you lose your money; it's WHY you do if it happens (There are sad fraud stories out there, and that's damaging to this great project).

We live in an era where people refuse to take the brunt of their actions.

I firmly believe that the Ouya can make it if people do not get cold feet.

 

[Azuaron]

Okay now, let's get this very, very straight: Kickstarters are not investments. Kickstarter makes this very, very clear because investments are policed with a heavy hand by (I believe) the SEC.

Kickstarters are preordering products that have not yet been created. Presumably they will become created. If they don't, your recourse would be (given Kickstarter's TOS) to go after the project creator in court (small-claims or class-action, depending on the size of the project). However, I doubt anyone would actually be able to get anything via the courts, as these are obviously speculative products, and any project creator worth their legal salt will be hiding behind a corporation that will, upon the project busting, be worth absolutely nothing, and you would then be trying to take the corporation for all it was worth (absolutely nothing).

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

For those that might be confused:
Kickstarter ≠ Amazon

 

[drkchmst]

Okay now, let's get this very, very straight: Kickstarters are not investments. Kickstarter makes this very, very clear because investments are policed with a heavy hand by (I believe) the SEC.

Kickstarters are preordering products that have not yet been created. Presumably they will become created. If they don't, your recourse would be (given Kickstarter's TOS) to go after the project creator in court (small-claims or class-action, depending on the size of the project). However, I doubt anyone would actually be able to get anything via the courts, as these are obviously speculative products, and any project creator worth their legal salt will be hiding behind a corporation that will, upon the project busting, be worth absolutely nothing, and you would then be trying to take the corporation for all it was worth (absolutely nothing).

Apparently Kickstarter did not make it very clear that it is a preorder service based on every single comment above.

 

[deserteagleeye]

I would hope that the people investing in a kickstarter already know the risks of "investing". This isn't really a transaction.

 

[Azuaron]

Okay now, let's get this very, very straight: Kickstarters are not investments. Kickstarter makes this very, very clear because investments are policed with a heavy hand by (I believe) the SEC.

Kickstarters are preordering products that have not yet been created. Presumably they will become created. If they don't, your recourse would be (given Kickstarter's TOS) to go after the project creator in court (small-claims or class-action, depending on the size of the project). However, I doubt anyone would actually be able to get anything via the courts, as these are obviously speculative products, and any project creator worth their legal salt will be hiding behind a corporation that will, upon the project busting, be worth absolutely nothing, and you would then be trying to take the corporation for all it was worth (absolutely nothing).

Apparently Kickstarter did not make it very clear that it is a preorder service based on every single comment above.

Kickstarter's TOS makes this very, very clear because investments are policed with a heavy hand by (I believe) the SEC.

FTFMe

 

[Kahani]

Kickstarters are preordering products that have not yet been created.

No they're not. This is demonstrated very simply by the many reward levels that do not, in fact, include a pre-order for the product. As far as I am aware there is not even a requirement to offer rewards at all. You can simply ask for money and hope people give it to you. Many projects include pre-orders as one reward option since it's a fairly obvious way to encourage people to invest, but that in no way suggests that therefore all backers must always be pre-ordering something. Just look at the Ouya as an example. 3668 backers will not be getting an Ouya no matter how well the project goes, because they backed the project without ordering one.

 

[Azuaron]

Kickstarters are preordering products that have not yet been created.

No they're not. This is demonstrated very simply by the many reward levels that do not, in fact, include a pre-order for the product. As far as I am aware there is not even a requirement to offer rewards at all. You can simply ask for money and hope people give it to you. Many projects include pre-orders as one reward option since it's a fairly obvious way to encourage people to invest, but that in no way suggests that therefore all backers must always be pre-ordering something. Just look at the Ouya as an example. 3668 backers will not be getting an Ouya no matter how well the project goes, because they backed the project without ordering one.

From the Kickstarter FAQ:

"Are projects required to offer rewards?

Yes. A series of creative and engaging backer rewards is essential. Rewards are typically things produced by the project itself."

Further, Kickstarter is:

"Funding for projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project."

Backers are not required to choose an award, and can donate more than the reward they are getting, in the same way that I could walk into a coffee shop and drop money in a tip jar without ordering, or buy something and give an additional tip. And, while those 3668 backers aren't preordering an Ouya, they are preordering their username. That's still a preorder. Things can get more ridiculous (Gabe of Penny Arcade will be yelling my name at a duck) or even be as ephemeral as a "Thank you!" but Kickstarter will not even accept a project that does not have some rewards that are actual products--and preferably products produced by the project (again, the Penny Arcade Kickstarter [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/penny-arcade-sells-out] walked that line more than any other project I've seen).

There's a whole bunch more in the Kickstarter guidelines [http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics], and, I'm sure, even more in some unreadable legal document somewhere, but the bottom line is that Kickstarters are neither charities nor investments, they are businesses.

You can gift these businesses money, if you choose, and you can buy products from these businesses, though the products usually do not exist yet. But you are not buying stock, you are not getting a return on an investment in the legal sense of those words.

And they are definitely not 501(c) registered organizations for which you can get a tax write off.

 

[weirdee]

While reality be a harsh mistress, those who wish for things to collapse just for the delight of the spectacle are a bit too grim for my tastes.

 

[Something Amyss]

Apparantly not, or this issue would already have a solution.

Keep in mind that Max and Leo only went to jail because they failed to fail, funny in itself. I mean, Max didn't get caught in the first place, which is where they come up with the scheme in the movie.

However, there have already been a couple large cases of fraud reported in gaming sites.

I can agree that as an investment no one should be entitled a refund (unless, as kickstarted said they made a specific promise and failed to deliver i.e. the rewards). Someone does need to keep track of this though, if Ouya manages to fail while having not used up all the kickstarted capital where does it go?

To Max and Leo. >.>

 

[Something Amyss]

you arent buying a product you are making an investment in something that you hope but might never see.

hope for the best plan for the worst

*excuse typos recovering from concussion*

Are you sure it wasn't the jellies?

The ouya release is going to be hilarious.

This day will be marked in the annals of history. The day one million asses were shattered simultaneously.

"I sensed a great disturbance in the Force, as if a million fanboys suddenly cried out in rage and were suddenly silenced."

 

[Veylon]

The ouya release is going to be hilarious.

This day will be marked in the annals of history. The day one million asses were shattered simultaneously.

"I sensed a great disturbance in the Force, as if a million fanboys suddenly cried out in rage and were suddenly silenced."

Oh, if this goes down there will never be silence again (some exaggeration). You though there was rage over the ME3 ending? You though people were upset about Spore's DRM? You though the ranting about the Star Wars prequels was bad? Okay, it probably won't be that excessive, but there will be a lot of textual shrieking anywhere and everywhere if the miracle cube fails to materialize. There will be much pointing of fingers at Kickstarter even though they bear no responsibility and deserve no blame.

 

[Overusedname]

Yeah, what Fappy said. Kickstarter gives the public a chance to play investor for projects that can't be funded through traditional means.

Asking for money back if the project fails isn't how this works.

Yeah, sadly I don't have much sympathy for these guys. They knew the risk involved. Or at least, they should have.

Shame, considering just how much extra cash they got.

 

[newwiseman]

The idea of Kickstarter is that your funding a project. If they meet the goal and the project fails they still spent the money failing. It's very similar to the way the stock market works.