Kid Icarus: Uprising and Hurt Nintendo Fans

AzrealMaximillion

New member
Jan 20, 2010
3,216
0
0
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
You shouldn't have to use a stand to play a handheld game. End of discussion.
Then don't use the stand. I didn't.
Still shouldn't have the crap controls. The stand shouldn't be there period. They should've fixed the controls for better gameplay not given out a piece of plastic to compensate.
 

Enlong

New member
Dec 24, 2008
185
0
0
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
You shouldn't have to use a stand to play a handheld game. End of discussion.
Then don't use the stand. I didn't.
Still shouldn't have the crap controls. The stand shouldn't be there period. They should've fixed the controls for better gameplay not given out a piece of plastic to compensate.
When I said I didn't use the stand, I should have specified that I used the base controls without the stand and did fine. You say the game shouldn't have crap controls, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't. As far as I can tell, the stand is there to try to placate people who were going to argue about the controls. But all it did was become a target.
 

Zetatrain

Senior Member
May 1, 2020
748
13
23
Country
United States
Draconalis said:
Wait... he actually reads comments?

I refuse to believe it.
Clearly you have never seen the episode of zero punctuation where he spends the entire length of the video responding to all the hate he got for his criticism of Super Smash Brothers Brawl.
 

Draconalis

New member
Sep 11, 2008
1,586
0
0
Zetatrain said:
Clearly you have never seen the episode of zero punctuation where he spends the entire length of the video responding to all the hate he got for his criticism of Super Smash Brothers Brawl.
Those were responses to e-mails, not forum posts.
 

gadjo

New member
Apr 19, 2012
21
0
0
Enlong said:
gadjo said:
Ooooh looks like someone pinched a nerve. You do realize that when you make such unfounded attacks it just tells everyone that you have absolutely no tolerance for being told you are wrong? Look, I used to be a Nintendo fanboy. I defended the wii, I attacked the 360 and the PS3 despite their arguably superior games libraries. I even loved (and still do) Smash brothers brawl. But by the time I saw that review I had already lost faith in Nintendo myself. I didn't attack Yahtzee for his opinion, after all brawl takes forever to get into, and all he had was a week. I didn't attack him because I got out of fanboydom. It's not too late for you to escape as well.
Sir, for your own sake, I should tell you that "looks like someone pinched a nerve" is barely more respectable a retort than "U mad?" However good your response is, prefacing it with that doesn't do you any favors at all.

And I have to ask: what part of that post are you referring to with the term "unfounded attack"?
While I will admit that I could have chosen a better opening line than that, it does differ from the "u mad?" comment in that it implies that he was making his attacks because something Yahtzee said got a rise out of him, not because he had any legitimate points to make. So far as unfounded attacks go, claiming someone like Yahtzee has no journalistic integrity, and that no one takes his reviews seriously, is rather unfounded given the many games he has allowed himself to be surprised by, and the large number of comments by people who were influenced to buy a game because of Yahtzee's review. Honestly, I just think the guy has a vendetta from when he reviewed brawl
 

AzrealMaximillion

New member
Jan 20, 2010
3,216
0
0
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
You shouldn't have to use a stand to play a handheld game. End of discussion.
Then don't use the stand. I didn't.
Still shouldn't have the crap controls. The stand shouldn't be there period. They should've fixed the controls for better gameplay not given out a piece of plastic to compensate.
When I said I didn't use the stand, I should have specified that I used the base controls without the stand and did fine. You say the game shouldn't have crap controls, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't. As far as I can tell, the stand is there to try to placate people who were going to argue about the controls. But all it did was become a target.
There's no excuse for a game that has controls that a) physically hurt to use over a short period of time and b)essentially ruin the 'handheld' part of a handheld game. You say you played the game without the stand and enjoyed it. Good for you, but that's your opinion. Not everyone enjoyed it clearly. It's not like Yahtzee is bashing the stand without playing the game, he played it and hated it. As did I. It literally hurts to play Kid Icarus for an extended period of time and there's no excuse or opinion you can come up with that makes that acceptable.

You should not have to package a stand with a handheld game. Period. Your experience with the game or not, that defeats the purpose of a handheld game. If you can't play a handheld game comfortably on let's say, a road trip in a car, then the controls should have been fixed. No questions asked. There's your opinion, my and my opinion, but I'm trying not to argue opinions because that's not what this issue is about. I'm arguing about the concept of a "handheld game" being designed with the "handheld" concept being thrown out the window for no good reason. I don't think you can argue that this game could have been done with better controls to prevent the need to sell it with a stand.
 

BloodRedWidow

New member
Nov 24, 2011
4
0
0
Im probably niave and stupid, but I thought it was obvious that Yahtzee put his job before a game itself. His dedication to giving a balanced argument is evidence of that. Yahtzee does put quality before quantity, but to be embroiled in a console war when the whole point of a game is to be fun and entertaining is just...silly. As for kid icarus, it should be the game that counts, not the ppl behind it. Doesnt an artist want you to admire his work rather than his clothes?
 

Enlong

New member
Dec 24, 2008
185
0
0
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
You shouldn't have to use a stand to play a handheld game. End of discussion.
Then don't use the stand. I didn't.
Still shouldn't have the crap controls. The stand shouldn't be there period. They should've fixed the controls for better gameplay not given out a piece of plastic to compensate.
When I said I didn't use the stand, I should have specified that I used the base controls without the stand and did fine. You say the game shouldn't have crap controls, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't. As far as I can tell, the stand is there to try to placate people who were going to argue about the controls. But all it did was become a target.
There's no excuse for a game that has controls that a) physically hurt to use over a short period of time and b)essentially ruin the 'handheld' part of a handheld game. You say you played the game without the stand and enjoyed it. Good for you, but that's your opinion. Not everyone enjoyed it clearly. It's not like Yahtzee is bashing the stand without playing the game, he played it and hated it. As did I. It literally hurts to play Kid Icarus for an extended period of time and there's no excuse or opinion you can come up with that makes that acceptable.

You should not have to package a stand with a handheld game. Period. Your experience with the game or not, that defeats the purpose of a handheld game. If you can't play a handheld game comfortably on let's say, a road trip in a car, then the controls should have been fixed. No questions asked. There's your opinion, my and my opinion, but I'm trying not to argue opinions because that's not what this issue is about. I'm arguing about the concept of a "handheld game" being designed with the "handheld" concept being thrown out the window for no good reason. I don't think you can argue that this game could have been done with better controls to prevent the need to sell it with a stand.
How in the Hell are you holding it to make it hurt when you play it?

I'm dead serious here, I have no idea how to relate to what you're saying here.

I mean, when I first played it, I was holding the 3DS in such a way that the lower-left corner dug into my palm a bit, but that was entirely my mistake. I soon learned a more comfortable way to do it. But that isn't what I'm hearing. I'm hearing stories about peoples' hands cramping up. I honestly have no idea how one would hold it to make their hand do that. Like, is it how you hold the stylus, or is your left hand the one doing it?

Seriously. No games. Not a drop of sarcasm here. I honestly want to know. It's driving me nuts.

But even if I am truly in the minority for finding the default controls fine, (and I still think it's not so much that as it is certain forums drawing certain people) at the end of the day, they're only the default, in a game with a more strongly customizable control scheme than I've seen in quite some time for a game not on the computer. The controls can be mapped to a relatively large number of configurations, some of which would require the stand, and some of which would not. Hell, you don't even need to involve the touch screen at all, potentially. There is a difference between the controls being bad, and not clicking with the default controls. I believe that the latter is what is going on.

Finally, unless I forgot something, Yahtzee was mainly saying that he's uncomfortable when he's using the stand, due to the way he sits down when playing it.
 

TheUnbeholden

New member
Dec 13, 2007
193
0
0
Mausenheimmer said:
Considering that Nintendo just posted their first full year loss, I think the market has proven Yahtzee right. Nintendo's games haven't been as good lately and have relied increasingly on gimmicky controls rather than sound design.
and playing on the nostalgia card by re-releasing the same tripe without any innovation, except maybe 1 new thing thrown in.

Enlong said:
Finally, unless I forgot something, Yahtzee was mainly saying that he's uncomfortable when he's using the stand, due to the way he sits down when playing it.
Em no thats certaintly not his main point. \/

Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Remember saying when the 3DS came out, it's ridiculous that a hand-held, a device whose titular selling point is its ability to be held in one's hands and played with in all kinds of places and angles, should possess a gimmick that only works if you keep the thing held in one specific spot relative to your head. I said that they should bring out a Nintendo-branded peripheral that bolts the thing to your skull with a steel brace. I didn't expect them to actually do something like that, but that's what the stand basically is. Good luck using your stand to play Kid Icarus on the bus, or secretly with the device in your lap so the teacher can't see.
 

Enlong

New member
Dec 24, 2008
185
0
0
Then don't use the blasted stand.

I agree that they shouldn't have made the thing.

Because no amount of convenience offered by it is worth arguments like this.
 

AzrealMaximillion

New member
Jan 20, 2010
3,216
0
0
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
Enlong said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
You shouldn't have to use a stand to play a handheld game. End of discussion.
Then don't use the stand. I didn't.
Still shouldn't have the crap controls. The stand shouldn't be there period. They should've fixed the controls for better gameplay not given out a piece of plastic to compensate.
When I said I didn't use the stand, I should have specified that I used the base controls without the stand and did fine. You say the game shouldn't have crap controls, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't. As far as I can tell, the stand is there to try to placate people who were going to argue about the controls. But all it did was become a target.
There's no excuse for a game that has controls that a) physically hurt to use over a short period of time and b)essentially ruin the 'handheld' part of a handheld game. You say you played the game without the stand and enjoyed it. Good for you, but that's your opinion. Not everyone enjoyed it clearly. It's not like Yahtzee is bashing the stand without playing the game, he played it and hated it. As did I. It literally hurts to play Kid Icarus for an extended period of time and there's no excuse or opinion you can come up with that makes that acceptable.

You should not have to package a stand with a handheld game. Period. Your experience with the game or not, that defeats the purpose of a handheld game. If you can't play a handheld game comfortably on let's say, a road trip in a car, then the controls should have been fixed. No questions asked. There's your opinion, my and my opinion, but I'm trying not to argue opinions because that's not what this issue is about. I'm arguing about the concept of a "handheld game" being designed with the "handheld" concept being thrown out the window for no good reason. I don't think you can argue that this game could have been done with better controls to prevent the need to sell it with a stand.
How in the Hell are you holding it to make it hurt when you play it?

I'm dead serious here, I have no idea how to relate to what you're saying here.

I mean, when I first played it, I was holding the 3DS in such a way that the lower-left corner dug into my palm a bit, but that was entirely my mistake. I soon learned a more comfortable way to do it. But that isn't what I'm hearing. I'm hearing stories about peoples' hands cramping up. I honestly have no idea how one would hold it to make their hand do that. Like, is it how you hold the stylus, or is your left hand the one doing it?

Seriously. No games. Not a drop of sarcasm here. I honestly want to know. It's driving me nuts.

But even if I am truly in the minority for finding the default controls fine, (and I still think it's not so much that as it is certain forums drawing certain people) at the end of the day, they're only the default, in a game with a more strongly customizable control scheme than I've seen in quite some time for a game not on the computer. The controls can be mapped to a relatively large number of configurations, some of which would require the stand, and some of which would not. Hell, you don't even need to involve the touch screen at all, potentially. There is a difference between the controls being bad, and not clicking with the default controls. I believe that the latter is what is going on.

Finally, unless I forgot something, Yahtzee was mainly saying that he's uncomfortable when he's using the stand, due to the way he sits down when playing it.
You keep pshng your experience with the game like it's going to change my mind here. I'm not arguing that the game didn't hurt you. I'm arguing that as a handheld game, the game's controls should reflect that concept and play like a handheld game, not a game that some people may have to sit at a table to play. It shouldn't be a handheld game that isn't comfortable to play while in a vehicle. It shouldn't be a handheld game that throws away the very idea of what a handheld game should be.

The game should have been made with comfortable controls right off the bat to ensure the game would not have a need for a stand peripheral(for a freaking handheld). It's a 3DS not an iPad damn it. You can argue that YOU didn't have problems playing the game all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this control scheme has been criticized before. YOU may not have had an issue playing without the stand, but the debate isn't about specifically you or others who didn't have trouble with the controls. The issue that I'm arguing is that the controls are as bad as they are in the first place, even with complaints about how this control scheme was harped on 6 years ago on Metroid Prime hunters.
 

Slothboy

New member
Mar 26, 2008
19
0
0
I game with a group of friend (tabletop, yo) on Friday nights. We tried a new board game recently. They all loved it, I didn't care for it. We played it three times at about an hour each. After the last game I said, "I don't really care to play that one again."

Comments were "Oh you just don't like board games." "You didn't give it a chance!" "You would like it if x y z blah blah."

Look, I played the damn thing three times. We all had the same experience. I didn't like it. At what point am I allowed to decide if I like a thing or not? If I played it five times? Seven? If I made it a daily routine to play it for a year? It was a co-op game and we "won" every time so it isn't like I was butthurt because I lost.

I get the same sense with this article. People, he played the game, he didn't like it. Just because you do like it, that doesn't mean he is just dismissing it out of hand. I think he did a great job of explaining WHY he didn't like the game. If he really just had an anti-nintendo bias he A. Wouldn't play it in the first place and B. Wouldn't be able to come up with concrete reasons for disliking it.

People like different things. Getting mad because someone doesn't agree with you is nonsense. Take it for what it is worth and move on.
 

Enlong

New member
Dec 24, 2008
185
0
0
And I want to know how people are holding such that the default controls are uncomfortable while playing without the stand. Because I don't freaking understand. Please, help me out here.

It seems that thoughts on the game are split dramatically between people who see the stand as a necessity, and people who refuse to use it. I can't speak for anyone else, I understand. I mainly refused to use the stand because I was sick of people complaining about the stand before the game was even released. Maybe things would have gone differently if I had started with the stand, but I cannot be sure.

So that's why I'm asking.

And I don't understand why the experiences of people who did not have problems are any less valid than the experiences of people who did have problems.

As to Metroid Prime Hunters, I never really played that game much, but I thought there were people around here saying that that game had very few critics bring up the controls as an issue, despite having nearly the same scheme. I might be wrong (I need to look up those reviews myself), but if that's true, it just makes me think more that it's the presence of the blasted stand that's causing this rift in the first place.

Honestly? I don't think I should even really continue discussing it. It's become clear that the split is so profound that a reconciliation really can't be reached. Yahtzee had his own experience with the game, and his threads attract like-minded people. I guess that's just how it goes.
 

Mr. Signature

New member
Mar 30, 2012
1
0
0
I enjoyed Kid Icarus, I still am, and I still love Yahtzee's review of it. I don't care about changing his opinion and I assume that he doesn't lose sleep over whether he changed my opinion of the game.
 

Omaru Rodriguez

New member
Apr 4, 2010
1
0
0
Very interesting read. Nintendo fanboys annoy the hell out of me since SSBB times... Seriously, I had to sever some connections because they were just annoying. Don't get me wrong, all kinds of fanboys are annoying to some extent, but IMHO based on my experience, Nintendo ones are the worst.

What I like the most about your reviews is that you don't change your ways of reviewing games just to satisfy some people, keep being yourself because that's awesome :D
 

darkula

New member
Feb 23, 2010
2
0
0
On the sixth page already and not one mention of the thumb-strap? Am I the only one who knows of its existence? It was packaged with the very first version of the DS and nowadays can be bought from the Nintendo store. Nintendo's mistake was packaging this game with a stand and not the thumb strap, which not only made a game like Super Mario 64 DS playable but actually worked GREAT with it. Games with similar analog movement with the touch screen also benefit a great deal with it and this is no different. Problems with fussy controls, hand-cramping, etc. no more with the thumb strap and that it's now reduced to one of Nintendo's best-kept secrets, even if not many games actually necessitate it, is a crying shame.