Kid Rings Up $1700 Xbox Live Bill, Mom Blames Microsoft

[ProfessorLayton]

I like how not only is she not upset with him, she's defending him.

Also, I can't even thing of $1,700 worth of XBL stuff that I want...

*sigh*Call me a cynical bastard but Kid's are pretty damn selfish, I'm fairly certain he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and ignored potential consequences, of course, the moment he finds out "Oh crap I could get in some major sh*t for this"....Waaaaaaahhhh! Muuummmmmyyy!!!!

How the HELL do you blow through over $1500 on Xbox anyway? This isn't ebay where you can go try buy a helicopter, He certainly didn't buy something in a single unexpectedly big sale. He must have bought quite alot. Not to mention it says at the beginning "18 months ago" $1500 is bad, but over 18 months well that's a little less than $100 a month...

Questions:
- How did the kid think he could get away with stealing money from his mom for months?

- How did the mom not realize earlier that the kid was spending so much. If money is as tight as she says, it would be common sense to check your credit card statements...

- What might he of spent that money ON? (Either over the months or a large purchase at once)

- Is inputting credit card details actually a one time thing on Live? Or do you have to do it each time or Tick a box saying "Use these details each time without checking".

This is pretty much completely true. The idea that the kid didn't know that he was actually spending money isn't giving enough credit to 11 year olds... I mean, I haven't been 11 for quite some time and I know that I did some pretty stupid things when I was that age but he definitely knew that money was being spent.

 

[C95J]

Seriously, this is all her fault, she can't blame Microsoft for this, it is her kid, her credit card and she should have been watching what he was doing!

She also didn't even punish the kid! Seriously what goes through her mind is complete crap. This is 100% her fault, she should be more careful next time.

Spoiler: I feel this image is appropriate for the subject

 

[Zakarath]

Primarily, it's the kids fault for spending so much money on stuff. Just because he is 11 is no excuse, if he even had basic math skills, which by then he should, he should have realized that he was blowing a fuckton of cash on stupid stuff.
It's the mom's fault for being an idiot and not paying attention to her financial statements. There's no way it should have taken her 6 months to realize that the kid was spending that much money.

Generally, I'm all about blaming stuff on corporations, but this isn't corporate malpractice, this is consumer idiocy.

Also: "when he is in gaming mode he can't be thinking about the money"? WTF?

 

[angry_flashlight]

Isn't the MS point system designed to make you spend more money than you think? Still, at some point you've got to wonder how the kids spent 20,000,000,000 MS points without thinking "That's a lot." Either the kid is a moron, or incredibly selfish. And the mom isn't helping by not punishing her child and simply passing the buck of bad parenting and money-management onto Microsoft. While I don't agree with some of their business practices, MS is not to blame here.

 

[Therumancer]

snip

Please note: I HATE (to the very bottom of the shriveled sac that holds my bitter, dusty soul) the handing off of blame, especially when it's done by parents. Tha said, in this case, and only in this one case, I'm inclined to partially agree that Microsoft's handling of credit card information is unintelligent, when it comes to XBox Live.

Enter it once, and then you can just charge it whenever you want... yeah, it's convenient, but I think M$ is also banking on the fact that things like this will happen (but go unnoticed). It also makes the service even more dangerous if someone were to somehow get hold of your account name and password.

At the very least, Microsoft should have a PIN feature attached to the card, and when you try to make a purchase on that saved card, you also have to enter that PIN as a digital signature. This way, things like this can't just "happen," but you still have the convenience. And you just choose the PIN yourself when you first enter the card for use.

While I'm usually a fan of "string the kid up and beat 'im," it's likely this kid didn't quite realize just how much he was spending. After all, isn't that the whole reason they call these things "points" instead of dollars? Like arcade tokens and credits, it's so you don't sense the actual exchange rate and you're more likely to spend more. So, yeah, the kid was dumb to do that... but not unreasonably dumb. Just normal dumb. And I'm willing to believe it wasn't malicious, either--kids suck at conceptualizing money.

I disagree to be honest. Understand that microsoft provides the options to buy cards with points or gold memberships on them for the express purpose of people NOT using their credit cards and controlling the amount spent on XBL. This isn't an obscure piece of trivia, the stuff about card codes and the like is hard to miss if your entering credit card
information to begin with.

As I pointed out in my last response, the people I'd be pointing fingers at are the credit card people, because honestly their security is supposed to catch things like this. Given some of the reactions I've got from legitimate purchuses over the years, I think THEY dropped the ball big time by not inquiring on those charges.

Of course then again parts of this do seem dodgy, for example her not noticing it on her statements, the (above) failure of credit card security (which I suppose is possible), the ignorance of prepaid cards, and how she went immediatly to the media. As others have pointed out this does seem similar to the case with the autistic kid getting himself banned.

I partially suspect that she's exactly the kind of person that makes it so that Microsoft doesn't refund charges for this kind of stuff under any circumstances. People who will run up a bill, say "my kid did it" and then expect their money back while either getting the stuff for free, OR already having enjoyed it and really not be losing anything at the time they make the complaint.

I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft since they can be quite the evil corperate giant, but that doesn't mean they can't defend their own business or have people try and scam them.

 

[WarpCode]

Im sorry but I am calling BS here. 6 months worth of charges on your debit card and just now you are complaining? Debit card charges go through pretty much right away so you would have seen charges starting 6 months ago. Either she is lying and wants some money and free games for her kid, or she isnt so poor as to not notice $150-200 a month being taken out of her bank account.

Also, it is not Microsoft nor Sony nor Nintendo's responsibility to be a babysitter in a box for your children. If you are not aware of what they are doing then you are not being a very good parent. I know every game my kids play and every purchase that my children make whether its on XBox live, or Steam, or PSN. Heck, I play most of the games with them because its a fun indoor activity we can all do together.

Too many parents these days think they can just throw their kids in front of a game and forget about them for a few hours while they pretend they are still a teenager who can do whatever they want. When that child does something bad they blame a device instead of looking at themselves. Its a sad world we live in. Hopefully future generations will be more actively involved with their kids.

 

[FallenRainbows]

"Sadly, nobody has figured out yet how to make parents automatically default to "pay attention to what your kids are doing.""

You know what? Fuck that.

MS have been charging me for XBL on a monthly-base, without asking permission and giving the impression that I was only going to pay for a month before being asked again, and the only way to cancel this little fucking scheme is to go out of my way to call them.

I HAVE TO CALL THEM TO GET THEM TO STOP TAKING MONEY FROM ME.

How about the fucktits call me?

Woodsey's 'bout to get medi-fucking-eval.

It's in the T&C bro. Like most subscription services (See WoW)

snip

Please note: I HATE (to the very bottom of the shriveled sac that holds my bitter, dusty soul) the handing off of blame, especially when it's done by parents. Tha said, in this case, and only in this one case, I'm inclined to partially agree that Microsoft's handling of credit card information is unintelligent, when it comes to XBox Live.

Enter it once, and then you can just charge it whenever you want... yeah, it's convenient, but I think M$ is also banking on the fact that things like this will happen (but go unnoticed). It also makes the service even more dangerous if someone were to somehow get hold of your account name and password.

At the very least, Microsoft should have a PIN feature attached to the card, and when you try to make a purchase on that saved card, you also have to enter that PIN as a digital signature. This way, things like this can't just "happen," but you still have the convenience. And you just choose the PIN yourself when you first enter the card for use.

While I'm usually a fan of "string the kid up and beat 'im," it's likely this kid didn't quite realize just how much he was spending. After all, isn't that the whole reason they call these things "points" instead of dollars? Like arcade tokens and credits, it's so you don't sense the actual exchange rate and you're more likely to spend more. So, yeah, the kid was dumb to do that... but not unreasonably dumb. Just normal dumb. And I'm willing to believe it wasn't malicious, either--kids suck at conceptualizing money.

(NOTE: The mom is still uninformed and ignorant, but that doesn't mean she isn't accidentally making a point. Just sayin'.)

Why would they be banking on it? this happens what five times a year maybe? Extra £5,000 for Microsoft? A company raking in billions a year they don't care too much about a £5,000 which potentially compromises their loving image of happiness.

Though I'm inclined to agree that a PIN system would be nice...

While most of the blame lies on the mom, Microsoft really has to stop with the bs that is their handling of credit cards, you should be able to remove it after use and not have to call them up and spend 30-60 mins removing it. Having the option to remove it easily through the 360 or on the PC should be an option; but I guess people forgetting their subscription is on auto renewal is an easy way for MS to siphon people's money...

You can remove the credit card from the xbox, (not the month subscription however) with a press of a button, just go to purchase and their is an edit/delete dialogue if I remember...

 

[Anarchemitis]

Mom blames Microsoft because Xenu forbid she takes responsibility for not teaching her son the value of money on herself, or research how much money can be spent on virtual goods and how easily.
That would take effort.

However the good side of this is that for every 1 horrible happening that occurs, 1000 good happenings occur that you never hear about. Good on you parents who teach your children the value of money and the differentiation between Needs and Wants as well as wants that are Investments and wants that are Luxuries.

 

[Zakarath]

Isn't the MS point system designed to make you spend more money than you think? Still, at some point you've got to wonder how the kids spent 20,000,000,000 MS points without thinking "That's a lot." Either the kid is a moron, or incredibly selfish. And the mom isn't helping by not punishing her child and simply passing the buck of bad parenting and money-management onto Microsoft. While I don't agree with some of their business practices, MS is not to blame here.

That, and as I recall the conversion isn't automatic, every few purchases he'd have to be converting $60 into MS points, and he'd have to realize that we was spending lots of money when he did that so often.

 

[Xanadu84]

Now, I am sympathetic. I am sympathetic that the mom screwed up. We all screw up. It sucks. However, regardless of my sympathy, SHE STILL SCREWED UP. She gave her child the debit card, and either she saved the information so he could buy whatever he wanted, or she kept letting her kid use the card. That is your responsibility, and even if it sucks, you are not being exploited when your screw up costs you. I would have been far, far more sympathetic if she didn't try to finger-point. I also have to question why it took 6 months to figure out.

Lastly, did anyone else think that the mom sounded a little...lax? Her son ran up thousands in debt, and she doesn't even punish him? Even if he felt bad, you have to make your kids at least a LITTLE accountable. I can't help but wonder if lax parenting isn't the real cause of this in the first place. Maybe not, maybe its a fluke, but it seems feasible.

 

[zidine100]

"When he is in gaming mode he can't be thinking about the money. You can't put all that responsibility on a young boy,"

engage Capturing God Mode on.

If hes able to spend money hes able to take responsibility.... dang it i wouldnt have gotten away with something like this.

It is impossible to monitor everything your children do.

oh sure that excuse stands up for dlc content, but when hes buying new games there i think she should have noticed. To be honest i would think it would be increadably hard for him to rack up $1600 on just dlc.

 

[cynicalsaint1]

You have to love the absolute lack of personal responsibility here.

Yeah its totally Microsoft's fault you handed over your credit card to an 11 year old and didn't pay any attention to what he was doing with it. Especially considering there's no need to have any credit cards listed on your account if you just buy the subscription/point cards from a store ...

Granted I will concede that Microsoft needs to make it easier to get cards off of your account once you put them on. I have debit cards that long since expired hanging around my account just because its goddamn impossible to get them off and clean things up.

 

[uppitycracker]

They don't take advantage of vulnerable people, just stupid people. As well they should. Good ole american moms, passing the responsibility on to the corporations. I wouldn't even go so far as to blame the 11 year old kid, although he had to have known wtf he was doing to rack up 1600 DOLLARS worth of crap. Blame the mom for being ignorant enough to leave this stuff in his control. If you put yer CC on anything, do yer damn research, and know just what the liabilities are.

edit: oops, guess they aren't american. just acting like it (yes i'm american, i just know our kind all too well)

Congratulations, you get +10 irrational bigotry points for making a sweeping generalization about a nationality of people while at the same time being wrong on every level possible!

regardless as to whether i was wrong or not about the location of the parent involved (which i clearly, if you had read, mentioned in my edit), it doesn't change the fact that it's true about us americans. call me a bigot, i call myself a realist.

 

[kouriichi]

Dude, i get a statement every month in the mail that tells me my balance.
Your saying she never once looked at it? That for SIX MONTHS she never once checked her balance? That when she put or removed money for the bank, that she never looked at theyer balance?

Im sorry, but if your that bad with money, you should be blaiming your kid. Seriously! How do you miss £1082 being removed from your account OVER TIME. Maybe if he had racked it up over a week or two i could understand, but over six months?

While id hate to be sexist, many women are bad with money, and this sort of reinforces that notion.

1700$, and she didnt notice a thing? And then she blaims microsoft, and DOESNT scold her kid!?! Its not microsofts fault your horrible money management, freely given debt card and child's massive spending spree all happened one after another! You couldent have just bought him a 20$ microsoft card?

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

Since when does being a single mother mean you are an irresponsible piece of shit that can't handle her kids? I lost my father when I was 6 yrs old and was brought up by my mother, if I had done something like that I would be one handed Eddie right now.

 

[Woodsey]

"Sadly, nobody has figured out yet how to make parents automatically default to "pay attention to what your kids are doing.""

You know what? Fuck that.

MS have been charging me for XBL on a monthly-base, without asking permission and giving the impression that I was only going to pay for a month before being asked again, and the only way to cancel this little fucking scheme is to go out of my way to call them.

I HAVE TO CALL THEM TO GET THEM TO STOP TAKING MONEY FROM ME.

How about the fucktits call me?

Woodsey's 'bout to get medi-fucking-eval.

It's in the T&C bro. Like most subscription services (See WoW)

Believe it or not, I couldn't give a flying fuck if, beneath a load of other large writing in a tiny box, they filled a line and a half saying I'd have to jump through hoops to cancel it.

If something says: "Buy this for:

- A year
- A month"

I expect them to fucking well ask before charging again. At least put the option to turn off auto renewal on the fucking screen - this is them doing as much as they can to hide what they're going to do.

 

[Susan Arendt]

While id hate to be sexist, many women are bad with money, and this sort of reinforces that notion.

If you didn't want to be sexist, you shouldn't have been. While I certainly don't argue that this woman is a blithering idiot, let's take her stupidity on an individual basis, shall we, and not as an indication of the gender as a whole.

 

[AmayaOnnaOtaku]

As I said in the other thread:
Make the kid work off his debt
Sell that Xbox
GROUND his ass!!

And for mom:
Ok your laptop was broke but most banks have mobile banking and text banking. And you could always check on your account by walking into a local branch like most people did pre 2001

 

[Dastardly]

I disagree to be honest.

Try going through the normal purchasing process. You just see, "Oh, it's x number of points for this item." (Unless it's a full game, in which case the price is listed in dollars). Now, when you're buying the points, you see "x dollars for y points." Why is that?

Simple. It puts an extra calculation between the money and the item, and people are psychologically bad with numbers. Companies do this because it takes our minds off of just how much we're spending on something. Go to a big name arcade (like Dave&Busters, for instance)... you're getting "credits" or "tokens." This mini-economy effect helps loosen up spending, and it's a tried-and-true psychological tactic.

As I pointed out in my last response, the people I'd be pointing fingers at are the credit card people, because honestly their security is supposed to catch things like this. Given some of the reactions I've got from legitimate purchuses over the years, I think THEY dropped the ball big time by not inquiring on those charges.

Why would they? Companies tend to inquire when there are single large purchases, or when multiple purchases occur in geographically distant areas in a short period of time. Those are red flags. This isn't necessarily one.

Of course then again parts of this do seem dodgy, for example her not noticing it on her statements, the (above) failure of credit card security (which I suppose is possible), the ignorance of prepaid cards, and how she went immediatly to the media. As others have pointed out this does seem similar to the case with the autistic kid getting himself banned.

I partially suspect that she's exactly the kind of person that makes it so that Microsoft doesn't refund charges for this kind of stuff under any circumstances. People who will run up a bill, say "my kid did it" and then expect their money back while either getting the stuff for free, OR already having enjoyed it and really not be losing anything at the time they make the complaint.

I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft since they can be quite the evil corperate giant, but that doesn't mean they can't defend their own business or have people try and scam them.

I agree that she's an idiot. I've said as much. But I do think this cases raises the point that Microsoft isn't doing everything in its power to prevent things like this from happening... and I think it ought to. Yeah, in principle, it's the customer's responsibility to individually research the intricate ins-and-outs of every single item they purchase... but be honest. How many times have you clicked "Accept" to an agreement you didn't read in its entirety because it was just too damned long?

As it happens, Microsoft's handling of credit card information is not as secure as it ought to be. If you've ever bought anything with your card on XBL, and I get hold of your password, I can run up quite a bill. Granted, I can't buy it for myself, but I can still make your life hell. And there's always a chance I could farm that credit information out of XBL and use it elsewhere, if I know what I'm doing.

But really, I think Microsoft is banking on people making impulse purchases because of the convenience. It's why stores have candy and soda right next to the register. And part of those "impulse purchases" can come from people using someone else's card on their account. What would be the harm of introducing a PIN system, just for that extra, quick-but-effective layer of security?

Again, just because it wasn't technically illegal doesn't mean Microsoft is off the hook for making any changes to its policies. If someone comes to your house and trips on your front steps because you don't have a handrail, you might or might not be legally responsible... but shouldn't it make you consider putting up a handrail to avoid further potential problems?

If something can be improved, and a stupid person happens to point that out, why not fix it?