Killing...Is it always wrong?

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Axeli

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NotAProdigy said:
Pararaptor said:
I'm surprised nobody's thought of the people who want to die...
If your mother was old & sick & couldn't do anything for herself & asked you to kill her, would you do it?
The mother's life is owned by the mother and the grandmother's life is owned by the grandmother. Really, you have no right to bear anything to go against their autonomy. Even the Christian god supposedly allows free will. Dying is a part of the human condition and life outside your own isn't yours. Suicide = just?
If you were the only close relative, her death would only hurt you, not her. The one who dies could not care less. The dead tend to be that way.
It's the living who have to deal with the loss, making killing a crime against the people who cared about the victim, not the victim themselves.

But if the only person truly close to the victim were the killer, what then?
 

Sick boy

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Feb 23, 2009
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I personally could never take a human life unless that person didn't deserve to be around anymore, but the thing is, who am I to judge whether someone should be alive or dead? It's not my decision to make and I hope I never have to make the decision because it'd be depressing, stressing and seriously hurt me mentally.
 

G1eet

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Mar 25, 2009
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Whenever you can save more lives than are lost, I take that as a victory.
 

AvsJoe

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May 28, 2009
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Ahh... this is always one of my favourite arguments: the greater good (The greater good...) argument, the pragmatism argument, the ends justifies the means argument. Yes, I would kill 10 to save 100. It's the greater good (The greater good...). Pragmatism is frowned upon these days, especially now because villains in movies are usually pragmatists if they're not businessmen. But I'm not going to elaborate on my opinion in this conversation because it always makes me look like an asshole thanks to the negativity placed upon pragmatists, despite the fact that we fight to achieve the greater good (The greater good...).
 

mykalwane

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Oct 18, 2008
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Well it is without reason as in someone looks at you wrong you kill them, yea that is wrong. Death much like life must have a purpose. Killing another person is the same as killing an animal in that sense. We take a life to extend our own. Why should we say that killing of another species be any different then another human, we still are taking a life that would live. Killing someone for the sake of killing them is the same as killing a dog for no reason. Murder is wrong because it is killing for the sake of killing. It is not seeking a reason there.
 

Korolev

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Jul 4, 2008
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Killing someone because they want to kill you, for no reason, is not unjustified and is not "wrong". Unpleasant, yes, killing is and always should be viewed as unpleasant, nasty and generally not the solution we want to our problems. Killing should NEVER be glorified, even if it is for a good cause - for example, I always get a bit annoyed when soldiers for a good side, gleefully kill soldiers on the bad side. Remember the Gulf War? I don't, because I was, what 4 years old when that happened, but I have done research on it. Unquestionably, what the Iraqi Republican Guard did in Kuwait to the Kuwaiti citizens was sick, horrible, disgustingly appalling on every level. It was a good thing that the US kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

But when the Iraqi army was retreating in full flight, and had no possible way of fighting back, did the US army really need to send in the A-10s and start a massacre? Some of the Iraqi soldiers were NOT evil and did not deserve to die and did not pose a threat. You could sya that it was Saddam's fault for not surrendering and that he might have used those soldiers again later in another war.... okay, fine. But did US pilots reallt need to gleeful say that it was like "killing cockroaches" when asked to describe their actions? Killing to protect people, yes fine. Boastfully gloating about it? No, especially when some of the Iraqi soldiers who died were NOT part of the Republican Guard and did NOT commit the atrocities in Kuwait. Those Iraqi soldiers had families too you know. It's not the fault of the US pilots that the soldiers died - the US was fighting a just war against a horrible dictator (saddam). But to so triumphantly prance about, laughing about how many "aye-rabs" got blown up? That's sick, appalling behavior.

If you have to kill someone in combat, then yes, do it. It's not unjustified. It's nothing to be ashamed of. But I really hate it when people boast about how many "sand-n****** ah killed" or how many "Krauts" they shot or how many "Jerries" they blew up. Yes, it is necessary to pick up the sword or gun or missile to fight for a "good" cause. There are "good" sides and there are "bad" sides, yes. But the war itself is never good. The act of killing is always a sad thing. Some soldiers dehumanize their opponents in order to cope. I can understand that, but I can't support it.

Killing is always nasty. But sometimes it is justified. Just don't boast about it, or gloat about it. That's sick.
 

Barciad

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Apr 23, 2008
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I keep thinking, 'couldn't we just get rid of all the rich greedy people and then everything would be fine'? Alas, then I remind myself, that was exactly what they tried in Russia circa 1920.
 

Assassin Xaero

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HappyPillz said:
When is it OK to to take human life? How do you measure an individuals worth? Is everyones life equal?
When the human life is someone like... hmm... Hitler? Everyone's life equal? Well, everyone had an equal right to live...
 

Tron900

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Sep 10, 2009
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...unless he's trying to kill you.

but seriuosly, we all at some point thought about throttling somebody, be it they just shagged your girlfriend or accidently bumped into you on the street when you've had a bad day.

It seems like its programmed into us that we must attack the problem physically, but with todays civil society, we all know better.

but its a good question.....why is you first response to getting properly pissed off with someone is to harm them, even if its for the first nano second?
 

alex1314159

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Jun 24, 2009
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your argument is a flawed one, the 10 people were gonna die regardless, what you have done is simply killed 4 people by your hand. At least killing should be a last resort.
 

alex1314159

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Jun 24, 2009
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i agree, we have all thought about killing someone that pissed us off acting on that decisions is what makes someone a murderer
 

Epitome

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Well you have to think long term aswell, antibiotics are amont the greatest invention ever made, sanitation all have extended teh lifespan, but now we are vastly overpopulated and genocide may be the only way back to a stable sustainable scenario. Killing is never absolutely wrong, if fact we are the only species to attach such a stigma to it. Im not saying it right or wrong absolutely all the time but i can see scenarios.
Is it right to kill people who are in perpetual suffering, is it wrong to kill a potential rapist, is it right to kill a man who has served his sentence for murder and reformed? Intuition is a funny bastard, nothing is clear cut.
 

The Cheezy One

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Dec 13, 2008
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this isnt a search bar rant, and is actually very little to do with this, but it was about "is killing ok if:" the guy was just trying to be as offensive as possible to boost the number of people replying
it was basically at the point of "if you could save 30 white people by eating a black baby, is it ok?"
OT(because that wasnt): yes, if you are forced to by your government/more important factors

EDIT: sorry, what i mentioned before the "OT" was a different thread, didnt make that clear
apologies for anyone that got the wrong idea
 

dududf

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Aug 31, 2009
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Murder is Murder.
There are situations when the law may turn a blind eye but it is still murder.
No matter how you morally justify it you have ended another living creatures life.

OK with my annoying pacifist side out of the way allow me to get to my point.

Murder is not wrong. It's merely a subject of context. If say a man has raped beaten, and crucified 40 people I feel obliged to torture that man for a solid week, feeding him his own blood and urine and feces.

Where as a person has done a action that has accidentally caused someones death, that would be the "Gray" area, where it isn't clear. What are you going to do? Put her/him in prison? For what? Making a mistake? All the result would be is a new criminal on the street, because honestly all prison is, is school for criminals (and for some they get the message yatatatata) All this Wo/man has done is made a mistake that could not have been predicted and ended another persons life, essentially doing same thing.

Where as murder in defense of your self or family/friend is Right (Atleast in my eyes) because regardless as to how you think about it, the end result without your intervention is that someone is going to mentally injured for life, or physiclly injured for life, or a lack of living. All you can do is choose who gets injured and if possible minimize the dammage done.



Anyways that's my outlook on it.
 

random457376

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Oct 7, 2009
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Deprivation of life, be it of someone or something, has always been a topic of must debate the world-over. Religions, organizations, political parties and whathave you all seem to have their own stance on the matter. You have those that clearly condemn it such as with certain practices of Buhddism and shall not even harm the smallest creature, to those that justify it as within select examples of Islam, and then you have the clearly hypocritical as portrayed by old-age Christiniaty when their 'crusades' amounted to little more than sponsored slaughter.

Wherever you go and whoever you are, you need to understand that there is someone somewhere else that vehemently disagrees with you. There is no global standard and people have always been trying to establish one, but as we can see throughout history and to the present day, none have managed to convince the remainder of the populace that they were right. It just won't happen so long as we maintain our free-will in the matter. You might think something on the matter of killing, but chances are there is some organization across the world, some local religious caste, or even your neighbour who subscribes to a different political party that thinks otherwise.

This is unlikely to change in the near future unless mass-communication becomes flawless and the global population becomes localized in one area, allowing for a cultural homogenization. Such an eventuality (at least the latter) is extremely doubtful in itself and there would probably be people to oppose that issue as well.

It depends on whatever you believe then? Is that it? Seems a bit of a cop-out. Yes, it is, because whatever might be said in this forum amounts to very little in the end, on a global or even personal scale. Though if you are still interested in purusing the concept then I have my own reasoned beliefs noted down underneath .. For as much good as they will do!

In western cultures a common belief (as seen in the law that governs) is that self-defence is justified means of killing. After all, isn't it safe to assume we'd all rather not die ourselves if we have the option of preventing it? Still, though, you're not expected to go bragging about it. Why? Simply because, killing is still tabboo and sometimes prosecutions still go ahead if more than adequate force was utilised or certain other aggravating factors were present.

I don't believe the law is exactly moral in itself though. If you don't understand this it might be helpful to consider the alignment axis used in some roleplaying games, wherein it is split between good/evil and law/chaos. Neither law nor chaos are specifically good or evil. I have more backing than obscure RPG examples though.

At least over here in Britain, the majority of law students will tell you that the law strives to be equitable rather than morally just. It doesn't matter if you feel sorry for the smaller guy in this business agreement with a substantially more powerful corporation, if he made a bad call and the terms of the agreement are solid then there's no justification to help the underdog. If the sole-provider of this old lady dies at sea whilst on a voyage for a lump-sum payment to be given at the end of the trip, she still doesn't get a dime because his contract wasn't fulfilled. Tough, but fair - perhaps morally unsound but equitable to both parties.

Back to the subject at hand though. Is killing ever okay? Examining the issue further, I don't think killing is okay even in terms of self-defence. It is still tabboo if you end up boasting about it, people sometimes end up terribly scarred by the experience, and in the end it just seems like people try to sweep it under the rug with a self-defence ruling and try to pretend it didn't happen. As previously outlined I don't think the law in general doesn't make many efforts to be a morally sound system. Completely accidental killing, wherein you could not have taken any measures in your power to stop it happening, would be acceptable on the other hand - but these are rare and far between - if you had no control over the situation whatsoever (such as an -unprecedented- mechanical fault for example that had no telltale signs of occuring before the incident) then it can't reasonably be considered at your expense.

Likewise, I don't understand the belief that killing some in favour for more or others can be morally justified. By numbers you are 'winning', but, would you really want someone to consider you little more than a numerical representation of a person? They are a person, they may not be saintly or even good or even deserve your kindness, but for all you know you might've been born in the same shoes and ended up in their spot - and they deserve life just as much as you do in that reasoning. Courtesy to them is to yourself. I don't understand the 'survival as a species' bit either in committing massacres. If we're willing to make such sacrifices of our own flesh and blood, so brutally and in a calculating fashion, do we really deserve to survive at all? Evil begets evil. You never achieve a morally positive act through use of evil means no matter the motivation. That would be like saying 1 + 1 = 3.

I don't even want to consider those situations where you supposedly have 'no choice' and 'must' decide. What sort of deranged madness is that? There are -always- choices, even if that choice is to not partake at all and let everyone die. You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. There is no middleground in this.

By taking away life you are removing someone's right to exist. How do you make a judgement call on that, even? By their actions? Can you really understand their motivations? Think about all the times you've yourself been misunderstood, or someone has presumed something in error, or anything along those lines. How about all those secret thoughts and ideas that you have which will never know the light of day to another living person? I don't know, let's throw in another difficult factor, maybe they're mentally ill? For all you know this person is far more justified in their decisions and actions than you are in deciding to wipe them off the earth.

In the end though, you will believe whatever you wish to believe - and for that humanity is probably better for it.

Regards,
MultiMasky
 

FiveSpeedf150

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Sep 30, 2009
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Le_Lisra said:
And no, every life is equal. If you start making "ranks" then we can just as well burn down civilization and start again.
We're all born into this world the same. Naked and crying. After that the real world starts and that feelgood equality stuff goes right out the window.

The life of a murderer or rapist is not as valuable as that of their victims, to me.