Kingdoms of Amular locks content for second hand users.

[Daystar Clarion]

It just that day one dlc means we could have easily put it on the disk but we want you to pay more for it.

No, it doesn't

Games go gold months before release, which means they are locked, no more content can be added. In that time, the dev team will work on bug fixes (if they need to) and DLC.

Now if it turns out that the content was on the disk, and is just unlocked through a small DLC patch, then yes, that's money grabbing, otherwise it's brand new content they made while the game went to print.

 

[SilentFlames26]

This isn't as bad as the forum title made it out to be, I assumed it would mean that second hand buyers would not be able to access portions of the vanilla game and that would be pretty unfair, but I'm guessing all this DLC will be is cool looking armour sets and stuff like that so I don't find any reason to get angry about it even though I buy a lot of games second hand.

 

[I Max95]

honestly when developers do crap like this, my opinion completely depends on whether the game is good. in this case, it is not good at all.

i played the demo, and thought it sucked, five minutes in i got bored, so i rushed through the tuorial area and when it gave me 45 minutes to explore, i propped the control stick against something so the character would run in circlesmaking it so my screen wouldnt fall asleep, and went off to do something productive. the only reason i played it was to get special content in Mass Effect 3

and on the subject of Mass Effect 3, they are doing this to. but for them, i don't care, i'm paying 80+ dollars for the N7 edition, paying a deposit to preorder it, and i plan on buying all the DLC, no matter how trivial it is. the Mass Effect series has proven itself to be worth my money, at least to me.
Kingdoms of Amular on the other hand, not so much

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

It just that day one dlc means we could have easily put it on the disk but we want you to pay more for it.

No, it doesn't

Games go gold months before release, which means they are locked, no more content can be added. In that time, the dev team will work on bug fixes (if they need to) and DLC.

Now if it turns out that the content was on the disk, and is just unlocked through a small DLC patch, then yes, that's money grabbing, otherwise it's brand new content they made while the game went to print.

Fair enough, you win,

 

[Thyunda]

(yes I get it, Im not ignoring a system set up for days after release date, Im concerned by a wording that makes it sound as such, though Shilling was never really the most eloquent guy to begin with.)

Day 1 DLC merely means it's released on day 1...I don't see how this is confusing.

Because it is worded as if to imply if you buy it used on day 1, which I was pointing out is an unlikelihood. I guess it is my own special brand of grammar nazism. I can tolerate typos, or using their instead of there and such, but it grates on a nerve when you get phrasings that make the sentence muddled. So note...the confusion has nothing at all to do with day one DLC.. it has to do with the implication of customers buying a used copy on release date.

That's not grammar Nazism. That's like being genocidal and blaming Hitler.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

It just that day one dlc means we could have easily put it on the disk but we want you to pay more for it.

No, it doesn't

Games go gold months before release, which means they are locked, no more content can be added. In that time, the dev team will work on bug fixes (if they need to) and DLC.

Now if it turns out that the content was on the disk, and is just unlocked through a small DLC patch, then yes, that's money grabbing, otherwise it's brand new content they made while the game went to print.

Fair enough, you win,

What? Just like that?

No rebuttal? No arguments?

I just...

Win?

No, this never happens...

 

[Flailing Escapist]

Its free, it wasn't cut from the game, the devs said it has nothing to do with the main story and its free.

I don't get the title to this thread or any hate this generates. This is probably one of the most harmless things any developer could possibly do to a game.

 

[Duffy13]

Used cars undergo significantly more economic degradation due to normal wear and tear. snip.

Fair enough. Replace "car industry" with "music and film industry", that should make a bit more sense. =p

The problem here is that the biggest(?) games retailer in the world got to where it was by trading in used games and thus providing a better customer service than other retailers. Not just because they could sell the used games a bit cheaper, but also because I can trade in any game I bought that turned out to be rubbish, and get a discount on my next purchase because of it. The efforts to work around this problem should be aimed at GameStop, not their customers. That, or they could change up their distribution method or business model a bit, but apparently it's easier to antagonize people who are legitimately interested in your game. Hence the facepalm.

Film and Music are also not comparable markets.

Films sink or swim based on their theater performance, long before they get close to hitting the personal use market. Theaters themselves are the best DRM in the world; for the primary run the only way to see a film is to physically go to a special location and rent an individual seat to watch it. By the time it gets to the secondary home market it's already been declared a success or flop and made it's money. Any additional profit is icing on the cake or off-setting the loss.

Most of the Music industry is by no means a benign industry group. That aside, the majority of musicians make their money from performances, which again are a primary experience that requires special venues and conditions. The dynamic for music is also different as consumers don't buy music to experience it once, they buy it so they can experience it whenever they want because they already have some attachment to the music. I don't recall any businesses making money hand over fist reselling week old CDs.

That brings us a back to the Game industry. The only of the three discussed that sells you the best and primary experience that can then be infinitely resold. The problem is the lack of separated primary and secondary distribution markets for games. They just don't exist right now.

Even books have an enforced primary/secondary with hard/soft cover releases.

 

[girzwald]

I support it fully.

Devs (and by some extension, the publishers) put millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours into making a single game. Is it wrong for them to sneer at second-hand sales and straight-up pirates? Not in the slightest.

Now don't get me wrong, I also understand the need of some people, whether they're in school or out of a job, to buy games second-hand... but no, there's no legitimate excuse for pirating. It's wrong- end of story.

To help put things into perspective; if you write a really good, neigh, exceptional report for class, you'd want credit where it's due, right? To you.

Continuing the metaphor, a pirate would be some a**-clown that snaps a pic of it with his phone while you're away, none the wiser. This is bad... this is cheating. This is not a good thing to do, regardless of circumstances.

And second-handers... hmm... you let a friend take it home, because you wanna show it off- because after all, you won't be seeing and/or revising your handiwork again. Some of his friends, whom you don't really see eye-to-eye with, look at it and end up with more or less the same paper, with only a few minor differences. Not as bad, per se, but they just kinda mooched your work, and the teacher/professor is highly unlikely to give you any credit for their reports.

I hope that made sense... if it doesn't, disregard. :S

Your analogy is full of holes and poor logic.

First, your point of developers spending millions of dollars and tons of man hours making a game. Your point would be more well received if EA was juuuuuust scraping by. They aren't. They make billions in profit each year. So, even with the pirates, and 2nd hand game sales aren't costing them profit, they are costing them extra profit. Which, sorry, the average person isn't going to shed a tear over when you are boasting billions in profit each year.

I doubt any game can blame piracy or 2nd hand sales as the reason they weren't able to turn a profit. If your game didn't turn a profit, or turn as much of a profit as you'd like, you have only your crappy game to blame.

Second, your "copying a paper" analogy is deeply flawed. Someone taking a picture of your paper and turning it in as their own, that's not piracy, that's plagiarism.

Lastly, EA isn't doing the "Day 1 DLC" as a thank you to the players, they are doing it as a screw you to the pirates and 2nd hand.

And people wonder why there is such hostility towards corporations. They are never happy, they are never satisfied. They never truly thank the fans/customers. The never do anything for the fans/customers without expecting a return profit.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

whatever. as long as the DLC isn't a game fixing patch and isn't over $5 or $10 i don't care.

paying a few bucks form some extra missions, weps, and hair styles in exchange for paying less for the game upfront seems fair to me.

 

[2733]

looks like it's just some bonus quests, I'm not to worried about it.

 

[Julianking93]

I've never understood the hate about it unless it's a useless ploy to get more money out of gamers like say, withholding game breaking/making content for people who buy second hand.

If it's just a little something then it really is no big deal. I intend on buying it new anyway but still, this seems alright.

 

[BrionJames]

I don't see the issue here, this has been the norm for new games since 2008. Why anyone would choose to bring this up now...

 

[godofallu]

I don't like the "buy new or get punished" trend all that much.

That said they actually produced a demo. How awesome is that? You can actually try before you buy.

I disliked it, so I won't be getting the game either way.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

So long as they don't pull an EA by releasing important things like maps, then whatever, I don't care.

Reward new buyers if you like but don't punish second handers, that's all I ask for. The amount of hatred from some companies (I'm sure you know who I'm talking about) is insane. It's not theft and they're not criminals.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Good thing I was planing on getting it new anyway...

 

[viranimus]

That's not grammar Nazism. That's like being genocidal and blaming Hitler.

Well I respectfully disagree because phrasings literally can make all the difference of the meaning of a sentence.

Spoiler: Example from a film, Charlie Wilsons War I think

In the film the editor of a newspaper corrects a writer, because they wrote "The people evacuated themselves from the burning building" to which the editor corrects and explains by saying it in that way the writer implied that the people in the building shit their way out of danger

That may well be an extreme example, but with language it is often more about how you say it than what you actually say.


Anyway, getting back on track, Honestly I really do not see where people can support the notion of cutting out any content of the game to try to stop used sales. Im sorry, no corporation has right or reason to do this and games are simply in a unique position where games can be accentuated with internet connectivity that it gives the corporation the freedom to withhold content as if it were a subscription, if the user does not comply with terms and conditions set forth. What if car stereos were all internet connected (which seems like an eventuallity) to which all of your CDs could have the last half of the disc withheld even though the data is on the disc, simply because the internet connectivity allows the publisher to track their product after the sale and in turn withhold half the disc because you cannot prove you bought it new.

 

[AppleShrapnel]

Your analogy is full of holes and poor logic.

First, your point of developers spending millions of dollars and tons of man hours making a game. Your point would be more well received if EA was juuuuuust scraping by. They aren't. They make billions in profit each year. So, even with the pirates, and 2nd hand game sales aren't costing them profit, they are costing them extra profit. Which, sorry, the average person isn't going to shed a tear over when you are boasting billions in profit each year.

I doubt any game can blame piracy or 2nd hand sales as the reason they weren't able to turn a profit. If your game didn't turn a profit, or turn as much of a profit as you'd like, you have only your crappy game to blame.

Second, your "copying a paper" analogy is deeply flawed. Someone taking a picture of your paper and turning it in as their own, that's not piracy, that's plagiarism.

Lastly, EA isn't doing the "Day 1 DLC" as a thank you to the players, they are doing it as a screw you to the pirates and 2nd hand.

And people wonder why there is such hostility towards corporations. They are never happy, they are never satisfied. They never truly thank the fans/customers. The never do anything for the fans/customers without expecting a return profit.

No doubt... I felt like being metaphorical, and failed. Oops

I'd just like to bring simple principles to the forefront. No, most game companies' bottom-line wouldn't flinch at having some umpteen thousand copies pirated or sold second-hand, but that doesn't mean stealing it off the net any less wrong. Nor does it make them evil or something for putting in a little something extra for the ones that do contribute to their revenue, or charging second-handers and pirates for it post mortem. The games we play generally don't grow on trees. Someone (again, usually hundreds of people all working hundreds of hours, and the millions of dollars to pay them all, etc.) has to make 'em. Personally, if I were working at BioWare, Bethesda, or where ever, I would seethe at someone admitting to pirating. It's not right. It's very very wrong.

Agreed with your point of failing games- pirates and 2nd-handers don't kill a game on their own. (But they certainly don't help.)

On the analogy... meh, I won't defend that... it was bad. Still, I think your argument is more about semantics. Principle's the same, though; someone stole your work. "You" being the game company, and the cellphone camera wielder being a pirate that takes it without your permission. That's all I was trying to communicate.

As for your point on Day 1 dlc- I absolutely agree. If anyone's deserving of a big "screw you", it's the pirates. But not so much the second-handers themselves, but the Gamestops and whatnot that bring in money that could've gone to the studio understandably leaves a bad taste in their mouth. Even in that light, day 1 dlc is still an incentive to buy new, though...

Last point kinda makes itself:

"And people wonder why there is such hostility towards corporations. They are never happy, they are never satisfied."

Customers are no better.

"They never truly thank the fans/customers."

And how would you expect them to actually do that..? I see thank you's in newsletters and the paper inserts that come in game cases more often than not.

"The never do anything for the fans/customers without expecting a return profit."

They're a business, not a charity. If your company isn't expecting to return a profit, you're obviously doing something wrong. Something terribly terribly wrong. /:|

 

[Thyunda]

That's not grammar Nazism. That's like being genocidal and blaming Hitler.

Well I respectfully disagree because phrasings literally can make all the difference of the meaning of a sentence.

Spoiler: Example from a film, Charlie Wilsons War I think

In the film the editor of a newspaper corrects a writer, because they wrote "The people evacuated themselves from the burning building" to which the editor corrects and explains by saying it in that way the writer implied that the people in the building shit their way out of danger

That may well be an extreme example, but with language it is often more about how you say it than what you actually say.


Anyway, getting back on track, Honestly I really do not see where people can support the notion of cutting out any content of the game to try to stop used sales. Im sorry, no corporation has right or reason to do this and games are simply in a unique position where games can be accentuated with internet connectivity that it gives the corporation the freedom to withhold content as if it were a subscription, if the user does not comply with terms and conditions set forth. What if car stereos were all internet connected (which seems like an eventuallity) to which all of your CDs could have the last half of the disc withheld even though the data is on the disc, simply because the internet connectivity allows the publisher to track their product after the sale and in turn withhold half the disc because you cannot prove you bought it new.

But...your quote's grammar wasn't actually bad...in fact, to evacuate oneself is not the same as evacuating one's bowels...

 

[Sylveria]

Rewarding fans, eh?

Well I must've missed the last installment of Kingdoms of Amalur.

It appears EA has so little faith that people will keep this game that they HAVE to put a pass on it.

Not exactly encouraging.

That's kinda what I think to.. it shows a huge lack of confidence. We made this new IP, it sucks, and we NEED new sales cause no one is gonna buy this stinker once the word hits the street. People are gonna dump it, it wont sell new, so if we do get some dupes who buy it used for $20 in 3 months, we need to make something back.

Irony of it all is that because they decided to be such tools and do this kind of DLC, all it will do is hurt sales in the long run cause of all the negativity. When you make a brand new IP, you can't crap on the fan-base before it even exists. You need to give them an incentive to buy it at all, especially new, but at least get some good publicity and a positive player reaction out of it. This is the exact opposite.

Worst thing? When this game bombs, they'll blame pirates. They wont look in the mirror and think about how shitty their PR and press is. They'll just pull numbers out of their ass, like they always do, and say "We had 80billion copies pirated, that's why this game failed."