Know of any mature/serious anime?

[Dr. Cakey]

Avoid that magica/crap- tried it, no-go.

You're clearly just trying to hide the fact that you cried at the end of episode three. Don't worry, you can admit it, we won't make fun of you.

Edit: Also, people keep saying "Code Geass isn't that bad for fan service", and that may be true compared to other anime, but like I said, I've got a low tolerance for that sort of stuff and even the allegedly small amount in Code Geass grates on me (it's the worst I've ever come across, with at least one instance of gratuitous titillation per episode).

Okay, let me clarify something here. Broadly speaking, Code Geass isn't "that bad" for fanservice, no. But that's only true if you lump everything together. I mean, by that logic High School of the Dead isn't "that bad" because it has no bare breasts - after all, Code Geass has a full 0.0000021 seconds of nipple. I think I can say with some confidence that Code Geass has the most fanservice out of any Robot Warfare Political Drama anime.

Well, by "weird shit" I'm not really referring to fantastical elements as much as I'm referring to tonally incongruous elements, such as an otherwise serious show suddenly having an "all the female characters dress in bikinis and chase the guys around" episode. With something like Fullmetal Alchemist, it at least remains consistent and I can tell what I'll be getting from the beginning.

Secondly, what I like at any given point (as with most people) largely depends on my mood, and right now I'd like to see what anime has to offer in the "serious/though-provoking" department. Though maybe I'll remove the reference to FMA, just so people don't get confused.

Let me give this another stab.

Basically, I can give you serious, I can give you thought-provoking, and I can give you good. Pick any two. The trouble, I suppose, is that a lot of anime, particularly contemporary stuff, treats thought-provoking stuff in an...odd way. "Irreverent" is what somebody in the thread said, and I think that's a good way to put it. For example, there's:

Bakemonogatari
A novel about relationships, the male gaze, and Japanese wordplay. And then the most psychotic studio in Japan animated it. Thought-provoking, good, yes. Serious, no. Tonal inconsistency is the tone. It's also completely incomprehensible without a couple years of anime behind you - enough to guess at the meaning the subtitles can't get across.

Star Driver
Probably the smartest anime of the last decade, and nobody knows it. It's a needle of a philosophy lecture hidden in a haystack of magic giant robots fighting in pocket dimension piloted by highschool students in stripper outfits. It's mostly about sex. Thought-provoking, good, yes. Serious, LOL.

What you are looking for has been mentioned already: Mushishi and Kino's Journey. I found Mushishi to be dull, but that may have been because I watched it on the heels of Code Geass. Kino's Journey, however, I've seen just one episode of and I fell in love. I'll get the DVDs, you know...someday.

In the thought-provoking but not good category, we have things like:

Ghost in the Shell (the 1995 movie)
A simple detective plot made completely incomprehensible - even after multiple viewings - by what I suppose is genius editing, of a sort. What it means to be human is questioned, but it's not explored and doesn't really have anything to do with anything, so you can basically ignore that. The Bible's quoted once or twice. And if you thought the Major didn't wear much in Stand Alone Complex, well, at least she wore...clothes. Ever. But no, this is a very serious movie. Yes. Very very serious. And deep. Very deep.

Serial Experiments Lain
Eh...this doesn't quite belong here. The story was apparently written by someone who decided that the problem with Evangelion was that its plot was much too logical and straightforward. Like GitS, it raises questions but doesn't address them in any meaningful way. However, as a purely visual experience Lain is pretty much unparalleled.

And coming in to save the day, in the serious and good but not thought-provoking:

Fate/Zero
Fate/stay night is to Fate/Zero as Batman & Robin is to Batman Begins. The universe is so dense and there are so many characters at play the first episode is 40 minutes long just to introduce everything to you, and the series as a whole is surprisingly slow, but, well, take a look:
FUCK. YES.

And before I forget, the triple crown of serious, thought-provoking, and good does go to a couple movies - already mentioned of course. Satoshi Kon was a brilliant director with a psychedelic style that blurred the distinction between reality and dreams. Here are two of his films:

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

Millennium Actress
Serious more in the way Pixar is serious than straight "serious", although it's nothing like a Pixar movie. A thousand years of time told as the biography of an actress told as a series of movies.

 

[ksn0va]

However, if you want a "serious" anime, I suggest Monster.

My recommendation have been stated before but I'll throw in my suggestions as well:

Monster The first anime that comes to mind when I think of mature anime. It's slow paced but very well grounded. It's all about a young surgeon who saves the life a young boy that grows into (well he sort of already was) a murderous sociopath. His whole life gets thrown upside down and he's got to stop the Monster he created.

Monster, just Monster.

Definitely sounds interesting. Is the dub any good, or should I watch it with subtitles?

Either is good actually.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Okay, let me clarify something here. Broadly speaking, Code Geass isn't "that bad" for fanservice, no. But that's only true if you lump everything together. I mean, by that logic High School of the Dead isn't "that bad" because it has no bare breasts - after all, Code Geass has a full 0.0000021 seconds of nipple. I think I can say with some confidence that Code Geass has the most fanservice out of any Robot Warfare Political Drama anime.

I think if we include "striking ridiculous poses to look grandiose" and "obliterating entire armies with one attack" under the category of fan-service, it could get up to par against most anime.

What you are looking for has been mentioned already: Mushishi and Kino's Journey. I found Mushishi to be dull, but that may have been because I watched it on the heels of Code Geass. Kino's Journey, however, I've seen just one episode of and I fell in love. I'll get the DVDs, you know...someday.

I'm not so sure about Mushishi; the lack of an over-arching plotline seems like it would get boring.
Kino's Journey sounds interesting. I found the description on Wikipedia almost startling: "It's about a kid named Kino and his talking motorcycle who travel around the world savouring its beauty. Isn't that nice? Anyway, he carries the following weapons: a revolver with explosive rounds, an automatic pistol, a pump-action shotgun, a semi-automatic sniper rifle..." Wut.

Ghost in the Shell

Oh God, tell me about it. Did you see the second film, Innocence? I have literally never come across a more pretentious film in my life. 50% of the dialogue is quoting philosophy.

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

I find it really interesting that you would say that, despite not even liking it. How could something be "objectively one of the best movies"?


Incidentally, I enjoy reading your posts. I can tell you have practice writing about this stuff: you have the kind of effortless insight and clarity that comes from solid experience. I think I'll check out your blog.

 

[Little Woodsman]

Oh, I totally forgot...if you can find it Romeo's Blue Skies.
Set in the 1800's story of a young Swiss boy who becomes a chimney sweep in Venice.
Very thought provoking about social themes and the things people do to each other.
I think you can find it all on youtube...

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Oh God, tell me about it. Did you see the second film, Innocence? I have literally never come across a more pretentious film in my life. 50% of the dialogue is quoting philosophy.

Nah, never watched the second movie. I mean, I didn't like the movie, the two episodes of the show I saw were dull, so why would I watch it? There are so many better things I could be doing, like watching Hyperdimension Neptunia having sex watching Sunday Without God.

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

I find it really interesting that you would say that, despite not even liking it. How could something be "objectively one of the best movies"?

Well, first you have to believe that a story can be "objectively good", which is an idea I cling to despite its obvious falseness. But I suppose what I mean is that it is a model movie. It's compact, every scene has a purpose, I felt the emotions the movie was trying to make me feel, and the editing was - from the perspective of someone who has neither gone to film school nor shot a movie - brilliant. It also strikes an incredible balance where, while you're watching you literally have no idea what is real and what's a hallucination, but by the end everything makes sense.

Incidentally, I enjoy reading your posts. I can tell you have practice writing about this stuff: you have the kind of effortless insight and clarity that comes from solid experience. I think I'll check out your blog.

I was also voted People Magazine's Sexiest Man Alive three years in a row.

And thank you. I think you'll find my blog incredibly disappointing, though.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You know what the funny thing is? The religious names and imagery was never supposed to be anything exept a framing device for the lore of the show. It's only because it's Christian, and thus meaningful to the western world, that so much emphasis is placed on it by both fans and non-fans. People often draw the "Gainax admitted the religious symbolism holds no real meaning" card as being a fault of the show, but it's just them reading too much into it.

And that's why you're worthy to be my eternal rival =). That is exactly my point, you just explained it better. Christian symbolism has no resonance with the Japanese cultural consciousness, because a whopping 2% of Japan is Christian (Thanks, CIA World Fact Book!). It's really not much more than a leitmotif (although I think there was some actual Jewish symbols in End of Eva, but I've only seen it once so I'd have to watch it again so if that's really the case).

For example, suppose instead of Angels the alien monsters were called Genies, and they were attacking NERV attempting to claim a giant black meteorite kept in the Terminal Dogma. Well damn, now they're just throwing in a bunch of pointless Islamic religious symbolism...that you didn't even know was there.

It's not like the names are totally devoid of anything - there is an inherent weightiness to words like 'Angel' and 'Adam'. They're infused with a history which can reflect on the importance of the situation or object. It's cheap, but it works. After all, can you think of a more badass name for a trio of super computers than Casper, Balthasar, and Melchior?

As for Jewish imagery, the Tree of Life diagram you see in the opening of the series and in EoE is from Kabbalah.

The only real meaningful religious subtext the series has is that of the story of Job, i.e. random individual is choosen by the powers that be and gets physically and mentally tortured to test his faith. In NGE's case, faith in ones self.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

hmm...Ergo Proxy is a serious and strange anime.. and so is Witch Hunter Robin... Black Lagoon is totally fucking awesome and mostly serious too. all the series i listed I've only watched dubbed in english since I never watch anime that's subtitled, but there'all really good even if you wanna watch it in sub form

 

[rbstewart7263]

I've never been big on anime, but I recently decided to give it another shot.
The thing is I have quite a low tolerance for "weird shit" (for lack of a better term), which makes it hard to find anime that doesn't get on my nerves after a while.
I was just wondering if you guys had any recommendations for "serious" anime (also for lack of a better term) that manages to avoid common anime tropes like gratuitous fan service and seemingly schizophrenic characters.

Here's what I've tried already, and what I thought about it:

Spoiler

Death Note - One of my favourite animes, even though I really hated the "Misa-Misa" character; was cleverly written with interesting characters and a cool premise.

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Pretty good, though there was too much expository dialogue for my liking, especially amongst the annoyingly out-of-place cutesy robots. Also, it was hard to take the Major seriously as a badass military commander when she constantly dressed like a stripper.

Cowboy Bebop - This is what got me back into anime after a long time. I thought it was really cool, with its bluesy atmosphere and subtle character development. Although Faye annoyed me in almost every possible way; even the character herself seemed to realise her only real purpose was to wiggle her bum in front of the camera.

Trigun - I watched this because I heard it was similar to the above. I found it bearable at best. The world was dull and none of the characters made sense in their motivations or choices. Every single thing that happens is unrealistic and contrived, without any kind of clever writing to back it up. It was just "Rule of Cool" gone awry, and I found it a bit sophomoric.

Baccano! - Similar to Trigun, very little makes sense. Which is compounded by the crazy non-linear story-telling. Although that was interesting to watch unfold, and I understood the sequence of events by the end, I just don't understand the point. I didn't really identify with any of the characters, who all seemed insane in one way or another, and the story just seems to meander around without any kind of unifying theme or over-arching goal. I didn't actually mind Isaac and Miria... maybe my tolerance for bullshit anime antics is increasing.

Code Geass - Currently watching this. It's very enjoyable, especially the second season. Reminds me a lot of Death Note. But goddamn, they never seem to miss an opportunity to have the principle female characters get naked, or frame an upskirt camera angle, even when they're in the middle of a battle you're supposed to be taking seriously. It undermines both the characters, and the themes, tone and tension of the whole show when important characters are gratuitously sexualised to such a ridiculous extent. Imagine if Walter White from Breaking Bad was constantly surrounded by schoolgirls in miniskirts flashing their panties at the camera... it would not be the same show. It just ruins it a bit for me.

Other anime that looks interesting are: Gantz, Berserk and Elfen Lied.
Possibly Neon Genesis Evangelion too, though several people have tried to talk me out of bothering with that series.

So, know of any other "serious" anime?


Edit: Oh yeah, and do mention whether the dub is decent or I should watch it subtitled. Nothing turns me off quicker than goofy, bad voice-acting.

attack on titan is amazing and sword art online will surprise you in its maturity.

 

[Seydaman]

Hmm.

Blood+? Young girl vampire thing killer. Although it feels like most of the story is focused on everyone else with this schoolgirl more like the magical mcguffin rather than a character...

Do you mean weird as in, "This is fucking nuts"? Or "Dragons be weird"?

If it's the first, try Claymore, consistent and grounded world, without random DERP. (See: FLCL)

Otherwise, Darker than Black is pretty good.

I think I'll go watch that magic girl deconstruction one, that sounds neat.

edit: Holy fuck I love this.

 

[littlewisp]

I'm not done just yet, but I am struck at how reasonable the discussion is. I started reading the thread to sift for more anime recommendations (sadly only a few new ones to try), but by page 4 I'm hooked by the rather genteel discussion. Good job, guys!

(knock on wood)

 

[Quaidis]

A bunch of main staples were already said, such as Monster, Black Lagoon, etc. I would not watch Evangelion dubbed unless you really enjoy very whiney main characters.

Two maturish animes that I really enjoyed were Mushi-Shi (pretty weird, but it's about spirit elements causing people problems and a guy solving the problems), and Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit (about a female warrior who goes on a journey to rescue a prince.) They're slower paced and not all blood and murder, neither having giant robots nor over-the-top gore. But I really appreciated the stories of both.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I think I'll go watch that magic girl deconstruction one, that sounds neat.

edit: Holy fuck I love this.

It gets better.

I'm not done just yet, but I am struck at how reasonable the discussion is. I started reading the thread to sift for more anime recommendations (sadly only a few new ones to try), but by page 4 I'm hooked by the rather genteel discussion. Good job, guys!

(knock on wood)

*glances left*

*glances right*

Fuck Sword Art Online.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Elfin Lied ain't bad, but it has a tendency to underestimate your intelligence. From what I've heard, the manga's better, but if there's a bloodier anime, I haven't seen it.

EDIT: Okay, I did some digging, and apparently the manga isn't all that better. I do know the show leaves some plot threads hanging, so I guess if you like the show, read the manga?

 

[Seydaman]

I think I'll go watch that magic girl deconstruction one, that sounds neat.

edit: Holy fuck I love this.

It gets better.

I'm not done just yet, but I am struck at how reasonable the discussion is. I started reading the thread to sift for more anime recommendations (sadly only a few new ones to try), but by page 4 I'm hooked by the rather genteel discussion. Good job, guys!

(knock on wood)

*glances left*

*glances right*

Fuck Sword Art Online.

Wow. Just watched the whole thing in one run.

All my tears ;_;

 

[Seydaman]

Thread revival or whatever.

Going to go ahead and throw support behind:

Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica

Steins;Gate

Witch Hunter Robin