kotor 1 vs kotor 2

[SonOfVoorhees]

I loved them both but KOTOR 2 was over kill on the talking, they just rambled on and on.

 

[DEAD34345]

Well, if KOTOR 2 was ever finished it might have ended up as the better game. As it stands, it has the same gameplay (but more buggy), and a far, far worse story that makes no sense whatsoever and then ends. Oh, and Taris was bad, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the mining asteroid level.

What didn't you get? I'd be more than happy to explain anything and everything about the story.

Spoiler: My very hazy recollection of KOTOR II

I remember that for some reason I was on an abandoned asteroid, then Kreia is there (I hated her). Then Atton is there (I especially hated him). Uh... then I escape... Kreia's hand is chopped off and for some reason I have a "force-bond" with her so mine hurts too.

I go to Nar-Shaddaa at some point and pick up a wookie bounty-hunter.

Um... a while later my quest is to find some Jedis and either kill them or save them for some reason. Oh, and if I save them they just try to kill me later anyway.

Then... I go to the evil planet where I set off an evil-bomb before I was an exile, I kill the zombie sith guy, and Kreia wants me to kill her too for some reason. I am only too happy to comply. I push her body off the edge of the platform thing we were fighting on. The game ends. I swear violently.

Ok, so I don't remember all that much, admittedly. I do remember that I didn't understand the plot even while I was playing it though, and what annoyed me the most is that I had no idea why I was doing any of this crap. What was my character's motivation supposed to be?

 

[DustyDrB]

KotOR had "the twist" that no one saw coming. KotOR II has a fantastic story that subverts Star Wars lore. And Kreia is the best video game (and Star Wars) character ever.

I love both equally. If KotOR II hadn't been so rushed, then it would probably be my favorite game of all time.

 

[Avatar Roku]

You might have a point, Obsidian seems to have good ideas with the gameplay and genuinely good stories (goes for both KotOR 2 and Fallout NV). But they don't finish their projects. I don't care why, they aren't finished. They ship buggy with soryline areas walled off at the last second because they ran out of time, they are never properly patched and goes a bit too far.

Take for example your companions being jedi. Jedis were awesome in KotOR, something Obsidian wanted to repeat. So now you get a jedi companion. And you can train another companion to be a jedi. And another. And another. Actually, the droids are the only ones who won't be jedis by the end. What the hell!?!

Too much of a good thing is not a better thing, it's just too much.

I'd say KotOR 2 showed some real potential, but I didn't buy the potential, I bought a buggy, unfinished game that they never bothered to complete or fix. No, that does not make it better.

KotOR II being unfinished was really, genuinely not Obsidian's fault. Lucasarts decided they wanted a 13 month development cycle several months after the game started to be made, with the plans originally having been to have at least 2 years. Lucasarts was also the reason it was never patched; Obsidian wanted to release a patch to fix it but Lucasarts said no.

Good point about the Jedis, though, I hadn't really caught that. I mean, narratively it made sense (part of the Exile's whole thing is that she attracts Force Sensitives), but I hadn't really thought about that in terms of gameplay before. Probably because The Exile becomes so OP that the party doesn't even matter.

(also, FYI, Mandalore doesn't become a Jedi, but that's probably because he's more machine than man (heh))

 

[luke10123]

I really liked KotOR 2.

But KotOR 1 had one of the best plot twists of all time. Who ever saw that coming? I certainly didn't, but when you look back, it all makes perfect sense.

ahh i LOVED IT! still remember my jaw hitting the floor during that cutscene...

 

[Irridium]

Pretty much. If only Obsidian actually polished and finished their games. I hated the unfinished sub-plots in my game (which I can't mod, due to it being the EU version).

Actually, it was Lucasarts who screwed Obsidian in the end. They forced Obsidian to cut a year of development time so they could release Kotor 2 during the holiday season, leaving Obsidian only about 8 months to actually make the game. They did this so they could stick with their "at least 1 Star Wars game a year" business plan.

Granted, the game would still have been buggy as all fuck, this is still Obsidian after all, but if Lucasarts didn't do that, the story would have at least been complete.

 

[the27thvoice]

You might have a point, Obsidian seems to have good ideas with the gameplay and genuinely good stories (goes for both KotOR 2 and Fallout NV). But they don't finish their projects. I don't care why, they aren't finished. They ship buggy with soryline areas walled off at the last second because they ran out of time, they are never properly patched and goes a bit too far.

Take for example your companions being jedi. Jedis were awesome in KotOR, something Obsidian wanted to repeat. So now you get a jedi companion. And you can train another companion to be a jedi. And another. And another. Actually, the droids are the only ones who won't be jedis by the end. What the hell!?!

Too much of a good thing is not a better thing, it's just too much.

I'd say KotOR 2 showed some real potential, but I didn't buy the potential, I bought a buggy, unfinished game that they never bothered to complete or fix. No, that does not make it better.

KotOR II being unfinished was really, genuinely not Obsidian's fault. Lucasarts decided they wanted a 13 month development cycle several months after the game started to be made, with the plans originally having been to have at least 2 years. Lucasarts was also the reason it was never patched; Obsidian wanted to release a patch to fix it but Lucasarts said no.

Good point about the Jedis, though, I hadn't really caught that. I mean, narratively it made sense (part of the Exile's whole thing is that she attracts Force Sensitives), but I hadn't really thought about that in terms of gameplay before. Probably because The Exile becomes so OP that the party doesn't even matter.

(also, FYI, Mandalore doesn't become a Jedi, but that's probably because he's more machine than man (heh))

Oh yeah, forgot about Mandalore, my bad.
EDIT: The wookie too, when I think about it.

Rest of your post just made me sad. God damn it, why does LucasArts want to kill everything that's good?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

This scene alone makes The Sith Lords superior in my mind.

Kreia is fantastic.

 

[Vidiot]

Between the finicky influence system and the game bugging out/crashing constantly (more than once per hour on average) I just couldn't bring myself to finish it. I hate it when games force you to micromanage your decisions based on who approves of what bloody actions. KotOR II did it, both Dragon Age games did it, and it pissed me off to no end.

(Alastair disapproves -30)

 

[SpaceBat]

Granted, the game would still have been buggy as all fuck, this is still Obsidian after all, but if Lucasarts didn't do that, the story would have at least been complete.

But KotoR 2 isn't the only game where this happened. The same happened to one or two sub-plots in Alpha Protocol, which is why I got the feeling that the lost sub-plots might be Obsidians fault as well. Unless Sega was behind Alpha Protocol being unfinished.

In that case, what the fuck. For fucks sake, you goddamn shitty publishers, let Obsidian finish their games!

 

[Scorekeeper]

KOTOR was the better game by far, due to actually being completed and not screwed over by LucasArts. KOTOR II would've been incredible had it been given reasonable development time. Since it was an Obsidian project, it would've remained bugged to Korriban and back but at least the story would've been finished. Cut content makes me sad.

I love Kotor 2's story. I love how it actually explains how and why things are happening instead of just going with the old "because it's the force" standby that's in every damn star wars story.

Well, it is in Kotor 2, but it's at least explained.

Spoiler: spoilers inside

Your character can't feel the force. Instead you used the force through everyone around you. This is why you are able to form such strong force bonds with people, and why it makes it so easy for others to follow you and do things they normally wouldn't do(common RPG trope, this is the only game where it makes a lick of sense). It also explains how your powers return. It is also why you must face Nihilus. Nihilus feeds off of the force, but you have no trace of the force in you, so he can't feed on you. That makes you the best choice to fight him.

It also explains why Kreia always hounds you for making plain good/evil choices. You can completely turn away from the force, ignore the force, yet you keep choosing to submit to it. This drives her crazy, and as I said explains why she always hounds you.

It also explains why you're so dear to Kreia. Through you, she can kill the force, so it can no longer hold influence over her, or anyone's life, ever again.

Damn great story, damn great characters... this game's story is easily the best star wars story in any medium ever.

What this guy said.

 

[Smertnik]

I didn't enjoy Obsidian's KoTOR as much as the original by far. The story didn't grab me, the characters weren't that interesting and I actually liked the graphics in BW's game more.

 

[Irridium]

Granted, the game would still have been buggy as all fuck, this is still Obsidian after all, but if Lucasarts didn't do that, the story would have at least been complete.

But KotoR 2 isn't the only game where this happened. The same happened to one or two sub-plots in Alpha Protocol, which is why I got the feeling that the lost sub-plots might be Obsidians fault as well. Unless Sega was behind Alpha Protocol being unfinished.

In that case, what the fuck. For fucks sake, you goddamn shitty publishers, let Obsidian finish their games!

Alpha Protocal was Obsidian's fault, I think. Poor management I believe. Sega actually delayed the game so Obsidian can try to get it fixed up, but it was for naught. In fact, an anonymous Obsidian employee stated that the Alpha Protocol was essentially "fucked from the start". So yeah.

Obsidian's a strange duck it is. But, good news, it seems they finally cured their bug problem. Dungeon Siege 3 was actually bug-free. Of course, it didn't help that everything else about the game save for it's story was completely boring as balls, but hey, progress!

 

[CommanderL]

I really liked KotOR 2.

But KotOR 1 had one of the best plot twists of all time. Who ever saw that coming? I certainly didn't, but when you look back, it all makes perfect sense.

I did and it surprises me that there is somebody who didn't saw it coming, the game does everything but outright tell you that you are Revan.

well that plot twist was back one it was still considered at plot twist and not something everything has kinda like the any movie that has a good twist all other movies milk that twist until its no longer origanal

 

[DustyDrB]

Granted, the game would still have been buggy as all fuck, this is still Obsidian after all, but if Lucasarts didn't do that, the story would have at least been complete.

But KotoR 2 isn't the only game where this happened. The same happened to one or two sub-plots in Alpha Protocol, which is why I got the feeling that the lost sub-plots might be Obsidians fault as well. Unless Sega was behind Alpha Protocol being unfinished.

In that case, what the fuck. For fucks sake, you goddamn shitty publishers, let Obsidian finish their games!

Alpha Protocal was Obsidian's fault, I think. Poor management I believe. Sega actually delayed the game so Obsidian can try to get it fixed up, but it was for naught. In fact, an anonymous Obsidian employee stated that the Alpha Protocol was essentially "fucked from the start". So yeah.

Obsidian's a strange duck it is. But, good news, it seems they finally cured their bug problem. Dungeon Siege 3 was actually bug-free. Of course, it didn't help that everything else about the game save for it's story was completely boring as balls, but hey, progress!

Yeah...we've been waiting for an Obsidian game without all the bugs and then we get...that. So it goes...

In good news, did you hear that one of the creators of the original Fallout games and co-founder of Troika has joined [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37844/Fallout_Creator_Troika_CoFounder_Tim_Cain_Joins_Obsidian.php] Obsidian? Now I Bethesda to give Obsidian another go at Fallout even more than I already did.

 

[CommanderL]

Granted, the game would still have been buggy as all fuck, this is still Obsidian after all, but if Lucasarts didn't do that, the story would have at least been complete.

But KotoR 2 isn't the only game where this happened. The same happened to one or two sub-plots in Alpha Protocol, which is why I got the feeling that the lost sub-plots might be Obsidians fault as well. Unless Sega was behind Alpha Protocol being unfinished.

In that case, what the fuck. For fucks sake, you goddamn shitty publishers, let Obsidian finish their games!

Alpha Protocal was Obsidian's fault, I think. Poor management I believe. Sega actually delayed the game so Obsidian can try to get it fixed up, but it was for naught. In fact, an anonymous Obsidian employee stated that the Alpha Protocol was essentially "fucked from the start". So yeah.

Obsidian's a strange duck it is. But, good news, it seems they finally cured their bug problem. Dungeon Siege 3 was actually bug-free. Of course, it didn't help that everything else about the game save for it's story was completely boring as balls, but hey, progress!

Yeah...we've been waiting for an Obsidian game without all the bugs and then we get...that. So it goes...

In good news, did you hear that one of the creators of the original Fallout games and co-founder of Troika has joined [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37844/Fallout_Creator_Troika_CoFounder_Tim_Cain_Joins_Obsidian.php] Obsidian? Now I Bethesda to give Obsidian another go at Fallout even more than I already did.

i didnt mind alpha protcal its just all thoose bugs and clithes and getting stuck on,in or around walls stop the game from reaching the greatness it would have it been more polished

 

[The Black Ghost]

Kotor 1 had the better story and best twist of all time

Kotor 2 had a clunkly, cut-down story but the best character of all time...Kreia. Her monologues make my eyes water from awesomeness. She is the main reason I loved the game...and making you actually have to think about your decisions. However, the game was too linear and felt consistently too dark and lonely.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

KOTOR 2 had a much better story to me. It was darker, murkier, and had many levels to it. One really saw the culture of the galaxy in that game, especially on Nar Shadaa. Most characters could be turned into jedi, and the Mandalorian Wars were greatly explored.

Everything about that game was more in-depth whereas the first was kinda like the original movies where the plot was simplistic (although glorious in its own right) and had a giant twist in it.

I love both to death, but 2 is just fucking godly.

 

[SpaceBat]

Alpha Protocal was Obsidian's fault, I think. Poor management I believe. Sega actually delayed the game so Obsidian can try to get it fixed up, but it was for naught. In fact, an anonymous Obsidian employee stated that the Alpha Protocol was essentially "fucked from the start". So yeah.

Well that sucks to hear. Still, got a source article for that statement? I would like to know more about what he/she meant with that.

but hey, progress!

What? How is throwing away excellent writing in return for good gameplay progress? If you ask me, that's a step down from what they've usually been doing. I mean, I can fix bad gameplay with unofficial patches, but I can't fix a boring story.

Honestly, it may be more common than you think. Most AAA games only get finished because the developers forgo all attempts at a social or family life and spend the last few months of development time living at their desks trying to get the game finished. You'll be lucky if a publisher gives you more than two years to build a game from scratch. More often than not, it'll be less than that now.

I know publishers like to make a lot of noise about how they look out for developers, but behind the scenes they really do enjoy screwing developers like Obsidian out of development time, funding and royalties.

Hmm, yeah, I do constantly read about AAA game devs nearly abandoning their family and whatnot for months just to finish the game, so you're probably right. Pretty depressing if you think about it. Both the fact that developers rarely get enough time to finish their games and the fact that they have to abandon their lives in order to do so.

 

[Robert Ewing]

KoTOR 1 is clearly far superior.

When I played KoTOR 2 I thought I had gotten some discs mixed up, because it seemed as if it was made several years before KoTOR 1. It was really disconcerting.