kotor 1 vs kotor 2

[Avatar Roku]

On a side note, something that irks me is that the Exile in Star Wars canon is much less important than Revan, despite them being on par with each other, and both of them saving the Republic. The Exile can even instantly learn an opponent's or teacher's moves, *and* survived a complete disconnect from the Force. To me, that seems more impressive, everyone talks about Revan....sigh....

Well, it's probably because KotOR 2 was really mostly an inward journey for the Exile. True, she did save the galaxy from the Triumvirate, but how many even knew the Triumvirate existed?

 

[Avatar Roku]

On a side note, something that irks me is that the Exile in Star Wars canon is much less important than Revan, despite them being on par with each other, and both of them saving the Republic. The Exile can even instantly learn an opponent's or teacher's moves, *and* survived a complete disconnect from the Force. To me, that seems more impressive, everyone talks about Revan....sigh....

What can you expect? At the risk of sounding like an elitist, Star Wars fans don't go for introspective, well-written heroes. They go for memetic badasses. The Exile is a Jedi with a bizarre relationship with the Force, who deals with morally ambiguous characters and who defeats a trinity of Sith Lords that no-one even knew were there. Revan is a Sith Lord who stomps all over the galaxy with his Sith army in a tried-and-tested Light vs Dark conflict. When you're dealing with fans who think an evil telekinetic cyborg is the scariest villain of all time, it's obvious that finesse and ambiguity are not what Star Wars fans look for.

*raises flameshield*

I think fundamentally, it comes down to the idea that KOTOR II is essentially an essay on just how stupid the whole Star Wars mythos is. Kreia in particular takes no small pleasure in pointing out all the inherent contradictions, fallacies and downright stupidity in a universe where psychics make war against each other with laser swords. The original KOTOR was a love-letter to the original trilogy in almost every way, meaning it won the hearts of a lot of jaded SW fans. KOTOR II was an extended lecture on just how stupid Star Wars fundamentally is. And if there's one thing SW fans don't like, it's being told just how silly their favourite franchise is.

Fair enough. And it's worth mentioning that, in KotOR2, they sorta retconned (not really a retcon as much as a clarification of what happened in a time period we hadn't heard much of) Revan to be less of a memetic badass and more of a sly manipulator. Granted, we heard a lot of that from Kreia and she lies constantly (and may have been trying to justify her student turning to the dark side, i.e "he didn't turn, he just tricked everyone!"), but some of it simply has to be true even independent of Kreia.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Fair enough. And it's worth mentioning that, in KotOR2, they sorta retconned (not really a retcon as much as a clarification of what happened in a time period we hadn't heard much of) Revan to be less of a memetic badass and more of a sly manipulator. Granted, we heard a lot of that from Kreia and she lies constantly (and may have been trying to justify her student turning to the dark side, i.e "he didn't turn, he just tricked everyone!"), but some of it simply has to be true even independent of Kreia.

I have to admit, I'm inclined to agree with Kreia on Revan's 'fall' for a number of reasons. Firstly, it makes him seem like a much more interesting character than your standard 'I iz teh evil Sith Lord! I iz tekking over teh galacksee!!!1!' that he came off as in the original. It worked well in the original trilogy, but when the Sith are producing nothing but evil Dark Lords who want nothing more than to rule the galaxy for no real discernible reason, it all gets a bit repetitive after a while. Xanatos Gambits FTW.

Secondly, it would mean that KOTOR II is one of the only examples I can think of where a new developer pulls a major retcon on an existing work, and actually manages to make it all work. You've got to admire the brass balls on Obsidian for that alone.

Besides, as loth as I am to give The Old Republic any kind of credit, they do seem to be going with the "Revan fell to save the galaxy from the True Sith" angle. Except according to them he fucked up. Go figure...

Oh yeah, it makes Revan much more interesting. And as I said, even if Kreia was wrong or lying, some of it simply HAS to be true. But I really, really like the idea of the whole thing being Kreia's attempt to lie to herself, after lying to the Exile the whole game.

Also, as I said, it's really not a retcon. I mean, we never really knew anything about the whole period in question; Revan forgot it, Bastila never knew, and the Council has been shown to not have the clearest mindset when it came to Revan. All that being the case, how would we know that Revan was really a manipulator?

Granted, I get that it kind of changes the spirit of the thing, but it's not the retcon it's made out to be.

 

[Suijen]

KOTOR had more memorable characters and a tighter story. Although KOTOR 2 was buggier and less complete, it had a more complex story that dealt with the force in a deeper dimension. Kreia is also one of the most interesting characters in video game history. Finally, I liked how KOTOR 2 expanded on the mythos of KOTOR, and even developed Revan's backstory even more, making Revan even more interesting.

 

[Substitute Troll]

I have this dream of one day making KotOR 3 if it hasn't been released yet. And seeing how Bioware has become EA's lapdog with TOR, it doesn't seem likely that will happen in the near future. So that's why I decided I would do it.

I had this great idea of being able to choose to play as the Exile or Revan in the third game. The other one becoming your primary companion. (possible romance?) I think both characters are equally badass. Revan is, well, FREAKING REVAN! And the Exile is a leecher who can KILL. THE. FORCE.

:O I'm tempted to include Kreia as a force ghost just because it would be awesome, even thought that would be fucking stupid. xD

 

[Continuity]

In fact the only reason why kotor 2 is hated is because its a buggy game, its story is praised.

Not by me, I found its story execrable, frankly I could of done better. Kotor 1 on the other hand has one of the best RPG plots i've seen.

Question of taste I guess (as in I have taste and you don't

 

[putowtin]

KotOR II is quite possibly my favourite game ever, yes I know it's buggy, and you really need the Mod's to make it:
1: Run better
2: Make sense

But I love the story line, I love the characters and I love the darker feel to the whole game!

 

[Payned]

Oh, and Taris was bad, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the mining asteroid level.

Wo, wo, wo. Wo. Taris was bad?? Taris was my favourite level from any game ever! But yes the mining asteroid level in KotOR 2 was pretty boring, and the fact that it was automatically compared to Taris made it so much worse for me. It's actually why I haven't been able to do a second run through of the game yet, I just can't bring myself to play through that whole level again.

In my opinion, KotOR is easily better than the sequel. I enjoyed the first game immensely (it's actually my all time favourite game), and probably in a big way because of that I found the sequel really disappointing.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

The story for KoToR 1 was impressive, I would play it again for that alone. I did enjoy the gameplay in KoToR 2, but the left me empty inside and left me with questions.

Theres a mod out for it? What kind of mod?

 

[The Madman]

Replayed Kotor 2 a few months back with the Restored Content Mod and really enjoyed it. I like that it takes a look at the Star Wars setting from a slightly different angle, questioning various ideologies of the setting and creating a cast of characters that can be defined beyond various Star Wars tropes.

But then maybe the reason I like Kotor 2 so much is because I've been getting steadily more and more sick of Star Wars in general. I'm bored with the good/evil thing, the stupid lightsabers, the kung-fu force shit. Bored. So when a game comes along that questions a lot of those things and explores a setting I used to enjoy in a new and intriguing way it's got my attention.

Just gives me that spark of interest and intrigue towards a tired setting I'd otherwise probably ignore.

 

[Continuity]

I don't mean to sound like a condescending prick, but I think you need to give KOTOR II's story another chance. It was written by the same guy who wrote Planescape: Torment, and that was a game worthy of best RPG plot ever. No offense, but I doubt that you could have managed to write a story with the same level of satire, deconstruction and thematic depth as what Obsidian managed to produce. There are people who study philosophy who use KOTOR II as an example of philosophical symbolism in videogames. It's a deep, deep story.

Well I played it through twice, lightside and darkside, and beyond the obvious and frankly unbelievable plot going on with Kreia which was uninteresting at best and fully irritating at worst... FFS she's got to have one of the most boring personalities i've come across in a computer game. Add to that that the plot was served up in broken and disjointed quest hubs that did very little to tie into each other in an obvious way that I cared about at all.

The big problem for me, with Kotor 2 is simply the lack of interesting characters, combined with the broken and disjointed, not to mention boring, plot.

If you can get past that then... well frankly even then, there is just nothing there.

Kotor on the other hand was a coherent and flowing space opera with memorable and well characterised characters, and polished quests.

no comparison.

 

[EHKOS]

Thats debatable. KOTOR 2's story is unfinished unless you mod it, and KOTOR 1's story is far superior.

yes because the game in unfinished because it was more or less a cash in, and yet the game developer was able to make a more intertresting story that kinda broke the sw mode, and explained sw repeats itself again and again.

I wouldn't call it a cash in, Obsidian put love into the game. It was the publishers deadline that killed the ending, and even though it was a shit ending, the ride to get there was pretty fucking sweet. Peragus had amazing atmosphere (hahaha)for me.

 

[Namulith]

KoToR 2 sounds like it has a great story. But that opening level was just so boring that I couldn't be bothered to find out. Gonna go with KoToR 1.

 

[Continuity]

KoToR 2 sounds like it has a great story. But that opening level was just so boring that I couldn't be bothered to find out. Gonna go with KoToR 1.

Kotor 1 is the better game IMO but it has an even slower open than Kotor 2. Just FYI.

 

[The Madman]

Well I played it through twice, lightside and darkside, and beyond the obvious and frankly unbelievable plot going on with Kreia which was uninteresting at best and fully irritating at worst... FFS she's got to have one of the most boring personalities i've come across in a computer game. Add to that that the plot was served up in broken and disjointed quest hubs that did very little to tie into each other in an obvious way that I cared about at all.

The big problem for me, with Kotor 2 is simply the lack of interesting characters, combined with the broken and disjointed, not to mention boring, plot.

If you can get past that then... well frankly even then, there is just nothing there.

Kotor on the other hand was a coherent and flowing space opera with memorable and well characterised characters, and polished quests.

no comparison.

I don't think any sane human being is going to argue that Kotor 1 is the more well polished and designed game, but the rest... that's subjective. I honestly have trouble remembering the characters from 1, which I played around the same time as I played the second a few months back. There was Bastilla and... um... HK-47 obviously and... erm... the blue kid and her wookie. Oh, and Kaidan was there too, that guy seems to get everywhere.

For the most part however it was just bland. Awesome twist mind you, but the actual plot beyond that... such boring Star Wars tripe. Oh Noes, sith badguys doing badguy stuff because they're sith. Quickly, assemble my typical cast of mismatched heroes to save the proverbial day. Oh noes, I had amnesia all along, I AM the sith badguy. Guess it's redemption time (Or not, which admittedly I find much more entertaining!).

Kotor 2 however I felt like I understood the motivations behind the companions. I know why they were there and I felt I was having a tangible effect on the characters themselves through dialogue. Not only that but they react believably as well, I was pleasantly surprised when at one point one of the characters in Kotor 2, Mira, stopped to say "What the hell, I'm not a peaceful person but at least I don't kill people... till I met playercharacter anyway. Since we've been cutting people down like crazy, WHAT IS GOING ON? Why hasn't anyone stopped us yet, why am I even okay with this?". It was just a fantastic bit of dialogue that went out of its way to break the proverbial fourth wall by trying to explain what otherwise would have been dismissed as game mechanics, and in so doing making Mira a more believable and sympathetic character.

By contrast in Kotor 1 that blue girl for example is supposed to be like, what, 12? 14? And by the end of the game she'll have killed hundreds of people without a single pang of conscience or the slightest dip in that cheerio street urchin attitude of hers... Right up until I have her best friend kill her, but that's probably just me. The point I'm making is that it doesn't make any sense and I'm glad that Kotor 2 at least tried to explain these things, to make the characters question what's going on and reacting believably. Kotor 1 only scrapes at this *IF* you play Dark Side, confronting the Jedi companions and slaughtering the rest. But Kotor 2 goes the full distance and I appreciate that.

I hope you see what I mean. Not by any stretch saying Kotor 1 is a bad game. Distancing myself from personal tastes Kotor 1 is, objectively, the better game in nearly every sense over Kotor 2. I can see why people would prefer it over the second.

But Kotor 2 has its strengths as well, and I for one enjoy the game much more for them. Plot and characterization I'd say is one of those strengths.

 

[RuralGamer]

KOTOR 1 was way better for me; the second game had some great characters, but I didn't like many of the changes, especially the more randomised loot drop, which kept giving me more double-bladed lightsabers when I wanted a normal one (seriously though, I went through one game, deciding I was going to dual-wield regular lightsabers; I got seven (SEVEN!) double-bladed ones and a short from loot drops (sighs...)) Also there was a ton of cool items I only ever got once in all my playthroughs.
I also prefered KOTOR 1's story, even if there were some cliches (is that the word) with all the ancestors' items for some of the main characters in the trilogies. Still, ignoring its bugs and cut-content state, it was really enjoyable.

 

[BLAHwhatever]

Can't remember specifics, but I remember the first game to be the better one. I think I just liked the story better

 

[Foxpack1]

Kotor 2 by miles because:

Kreia and Hk-47 who has become 50x more homicidal XD
The amazing dialogue, influence and philosophy.
Sion for being a badass with an amazing voice.
The small things, like interaction between party members without the Exile.

 

[MrTub]

I liked both games, but I prefer Kotor 1. I thought the story was better.

 

[Continuity]

Really? Kreia was boring? I found her to be one of the most interesting characters from any Star Wars story ever, and indeed, she's seen as one of the game's absolute highlights. She's an old Force user who readily admits that she's a former Sith Lord (Lady?), who not only trained the Big Bad from the previous game but also the two (quite frankly terrifying) Sith Lords who are hunting you this time around as well. She's one of the only female characters I know of in videogames to combine extreme cynicism with an incredibly well written maternal streak. She is ever ready to point out every flaw you, the Exile make, yet it is quite obvious that she loves you, and she says as much at the game's finale.

And she has the single most interesting relationship with the Force of any EU story written. She views the Force not as a benevolant life-force, but as an omniscient tyrant which readily sacrifices people from both the Light and Dark side in order to pursue its own agenda. She is essentially the only character fighting for free will in a universe enthralled to determinism. That issue alone throws up a whole host of philosophical questions, all of which the game answers in some form or other.

Quite frankly, Kreia shits over any NPC from the original. All the characters from KOTOR are well worn recycled archetypes: the spunky streetwise teen, the jaded soldier with a tragic past, the crusading Jedi with conflicting inner-feelings, the grim mercenary with a hidden sense of honour... None of them offer up anything close to the philosophical insight or ambiguity of Kreia. Compare some of the character motivations from the first game against the second:

"Waah, my family is dead and I am sad. I cannot trust anyone ever again."

"Ha Ha Ha! I am taking over the galaxy because I am evil, and therefore I shall laugh heartily! Ha Ha Ha!"

Compared to:

"The Force is the enemy of free-will, and I am going to humiliate those who wronged me into admitting as much, and in doing so I will destroy everything they ever believed in."

Fine, except I don't really recall caring about any of this when I played the game (admittedly several years ago when it first came out), starwars is about light and dark, that is the quintessential essence of starwars.. exploring the grey in-between just left me cold.

When I play a game like kotor i'm going to focus on being the ultimate paragon of the lightside or the very epitome of a darkside sith lord. Anyone who falls into the grey in-between is just going to earn my scorn and disinterest as I roleplay one of the two typical starwars role I describe above... and to base the whole plot around a character that from a typical starwars perspective make no sense at all is just a horrible waste.