Kylo Ren was the highlight of TFA SPOILERS

[Beliyal]

I wonder if people want to see him redeemed or remain on the dark side?

I'm not sure personally. Having him be redeemed would perhaps feel like repeating Vader's storyline, but then again, that would fit here seeing as Kylo wants to be Vader so much. Him being redeemed would put a nice thematic connection between Kylo and Vader. Kylo realizing the truth about Vader and how he had ultimately forsaken the dark side for family would be very interesting.

On the other hand, there would also be a significant and interesting plot with Kylo aspiring to be so much like Vader, but in the end finishing as a polar opposite of him by not being redeemed. Kylo trying so hard to be more like Vader and missing the point and the end of Vader's journey would be a compelling thing to watch. And it would also present something to the series.

I lean more to the redeeming option, if anything, then to not watch and think about Leia suffering so much for completely losing her entire family. And also because Kylo himself still seems conflicted about everything. This conflict was done really well in this movie and it would perhaps be a shame to remove it entirely from the character in the next two movies and finish this arc right now with "From now on, he's evil forever."

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

So, yes, the idea that someone could be very talented with a melee weapon they have never used because they are extremely talented with a different melee weapon isn't just plausible, it's reality. That is how fighting works, period.

Kylo, on the other hand, seems entirely reliant on his own power rather than his skill, and was fighting with a wound, likely severely diminishing that power. Could they have done a better job making it clear that was the issue? Maybe, but I'm not certain how they could do that without having him straight up say it. He was pounding on his side every thirty second for fuck's sake.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

hey I hate SJW as much as the next guy but come on, Rey is the most awesome movie character I've seen in a good while. Who gives a shit if she's a Mary Sue, everything about her just seems to work

 

[Mudman1234]

Dressing up in all black (like every Dark Jedi since...ever?) and having long dark hair automatically makes Ren "emo"? Really?

Also Finn the best part? Jar Jar made more sense as comic relief than this moron. Someone who's been indoctrinated since a young child to be a Space Nazi is suddenly cracking all wise jokes and trying to be the funniest guy in the room? It was cringeworthy as all hell. Especially when he confronts Phasma towards the end. I hope he's either killed off or the writers try to come up with something better than "black guy trying to be funny" for him.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll only be happy if episode 8 has Ren turn into an actual threat and Rey carries on the family tradition and gets her hand chopped off.

 

[Zakarath]

Ugh, Darth Angst was just really obnoxious and nonsensical. And having Han and Leia's kid be the villian felt like cheap, weak writing. Is that really the best they could come up with? Those heroes everyone loves had a kid, and he's some weak-willed emo asshole with anger maneagement issues who turned to the dark side because Some Guy told him it would make him strong? Give me a break.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Highly disagree with OP on this one. I really enjoyed TFA, but I thought Ren was bar-none the weakest part of the movie.

-I criticized the casting of Adam Driver when it was first announced, and after seeing the movie I'm doubly convinced. He is possibly the least intimidating human being I've ever laid eyes on. Dakota Fanning looks meaner than him. As my friend said: "He has maybe the most punchable face I've ever laid eyes on". People in the theater literally laughed at the scene where he took his helmet off for the first time, like "Really? THIS is the guy we're supposed to be afraid of?"

-He's a moron. He finds out Rey is super strong in the force, so of course he walks off and leaves her alone in the cell with one Stormtrooper. If he'd just left one more Stormtrooper in there she wouldn't have escaped.

-He's a petulant child. Whenever anything goes wrong, he throws temper tantrums and starts destroying everything around him. Compare this to Vader, who force chokes whoever fails him, and then moves the fuck on. Bad-ass.

-The whole thing with Rey defeating him and whether it was believable has been argued to death already in this thread, so I won't rehash it, but even if you can logic leap your way into saying it was believable that this girl who has never even touched a lightsaber and has no training in the force defeats a guy who trained for years under Luke Skywalker, it still makes him a shitty villain. Imagine if in the original "Rocky", they had made it so that Rocky was a baker, but he still stepped into the ring and defeated Creed with zero training because he possesses the mystical "Eye of the Tiger". When the villain trains and prepares for something extensively, and then the hero does absolutely nothing but still wins, it doesn't make the hero compelling in the slightest.

 

[Glongpre]

Ren is actually a very well done character. He has more character than the main characters, more character than previous Star Wars villains that aren't Vader. He is on par with Vader I would say.

God forbid we get a villain that is multifaceted, that actually has a personality!!!!

 

[BOOM headshot65]

I'll just post this before the mods move the thread, but Ben was a really dumb character with no motivation, no development or arc, no motivation beyond being a dick, an incredibly lazy and shoe-horned connection to Han, and a dumb as fucking fuck haircut.

Also he apparently sucks as a Sith because a literal random chick who no fighting experience kicked his ass.

A couple things about that final fight, Rei did seem to have some fighting experience earlier in the film. Ren was also hit buy Chewie's bowcaster after Han's death and you see the blood on the ground. He also had the emotional weirdness of having killed his father. I also dont see much of a difference between Rei at the end this movie and Luke a farm boy turning out to be an ace pilot the first time he climbs into an Xwing. Luke is also not able to make the shoot on the thermal port until he just gave himself over to the force.

Actually, now that you mention it hat is a VERY good comparison. Luke had flying and dogfighting experience, but it was with a subsonic air-speeder with an underpowered laser cannon, somehow he still learned how to fly a light-speed capable starfighter with 4 highly powerful lasers and torpedo launchers. Rei had experience with melee fighting, but it was some sort of metal staff, not a light saber.

In both cases, it was enough for them to go on, but then their force powers help them out.

EDIT: Also, my family is calling it now for the next film: Rei is the daughter of Luke Skywalker, and Finn is the son of Lando Calrissian.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

It seems like Rey should be the new Luke for this generation but the more that in think about it the more i sees Luke's journey in Kylo.

I wonder if people want to see him redeemed or remain on the dark side?

My problem with Rey is that writers want her to be the new Luke AND Han at the same time.
I mean, she can use the Force without proper training, she has great skill when it comes to melee weapons, same with repairs, she can fly the Falcon so well even Han is impressed and then she inherits the damn ship. Together with Chewie as the bonus.
I know the definition of Mary Sue is questionable, but DAMN, don't tell me she doesn't fall very close to one, at least.

As for Kylo Ren, I think i'd rather see him sticking to the Dark Side. If only to see something different than repeat of his grandpa's heel/face turn.

Compare this to Vader, who force chokes whoever fails him, and then moves the fuck on. Bad-ass.

You mean compare to mopey Not-yet-Vader in his early twenties, who whined whenever someone disagreed with him, and had problems with anger management? Cause Ren is at similar stage of his life.

 

[xaszatm]

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this. Kylo Ren (Ben Kenobi) is single-handedly the worst Star Wars villain of the movies, outdoing morons like the entire Trade Federation and Admiral Ozzel. He's pathetically weak for someone so high up on the First Order's chain of command, has next to no tactical strategy, goes into childish temper tantrums the second things don't go his way, and is all together not fit for his role as the Heavy. Even Annakin, for all of his idiocy in the prequels, at least was competent with a blade and was willing to do dark things (even if the movie doesn't do a good job at making them seem dark).

What really sucks is that I greatly enjoyed every other new main character in the movie. I loved Ray, Finn, Poe, and BB8 as characters and could watch multiple movies staring them because of the interactions and chemistry they share. I just can't like Kylo Ren though. He's just too pathetic and completely not deserving of his role. I'd have greatly preferred it if Kylo Ren wasn't the leader and was treated as the rookie he was instead as this badass. It'd at least make more sense for his incompetence then him being somehow the second-in-command. The only reason why this makes "sense" is because Darth Vader was second-in-command and TFA tries to mimmick ANH a bit too much.

 

[xaszatm]

Compare this to Vader, who force chokes whoever fails him, and then moves the fuck on. Bad-ass.

You mean compare to mopey Not-yet-Vader in his early twenties, who whined whenever someone disagreed with him, and had problems with anger management? Cause Ren is at similar stage of his life.

Yeah, but mopey Annakin is just a Padawan, not the most powerful man in the galaxy. He's friends with the Chancelor but he's stuck guarding the love of his life, not given power of an army. Hell, when he finally does get power over an army, he's not an idiot like Kylo Ren is. As much as Annakin is bad in the prequels, Kylo Ren is so much worse.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Kylo Ren was honestly my least favorite new character. His character's level of ability was all over the place. At the start, he force-tortured the most trusted resistance fighter into giving up information after he had resisted physical torture. Later, he barely beat Finn, who is untrained with a light saber and doesn't seem to be force sensitive (so really he shouldn't be able to wield a light saber at all). His draw in the light saber fight with Rey makes more sense because she is apparently very naturally force sensitive and he had just been shot, making him not winning a physical battle reasonable, but him losing the force dual for Luke's light saber with her is a bit ridiculous seeing as she had no training. It does make sense to me that he is Han and Leia's son though. Leia is very force sensitive, although she doesn't focus on that aspect of her ability, so it makes sense her son would be too.

The most interesting new character seemed to be Rey. Her life as a scavenger on what is apparently an interplanetary market world left her with a really diverse skill set and her immense ability with the force despite a lack of training indicates that there's far more to her than this movie shows. I really want to know exactly who is her family that abandoned her on Jakku. Whereas Kylo Ren might be a better villain next movie now that he is wholly dark side, Rey is certain to be really bad ass with Luke's training. Hopefully Ren gets a lot stronger between movies too to compensate.

And as for Finn, well, he's not much. He's almost wholly tabula rasa, other than his ability with firearms, due to the details of his upbringing by the First Order. John Boyega has really good on screen charisma and that makes him cool, but without that the movie could have done without him entirely and not been too much worse off.

 

[Loonyyy]

I think that Adam Driver did a terrible job with Ren. He came across as whiny and annoying, which doesn't pair well with the violence, murder, slaughter, and dark side bit. A petulant child may be believable, but hardly interesting. And his accent was all over the place.

With the mask on, he did a lot better. I think there could be some interesting stuff with more of him in it, but he felt like a cheap Darth Vader, right down to the cosplay of his design, and he let his Tarkin upstage him.

The one thing they got right is that he was scary and unpredictable. His design was neat, and at every moment he was there, I expected him to hurt someone badly. I had been spoiled on him killing Han, but I thought it'd happen suddenly and brutally on the forest world, just based on his presence.

Also the ending fight? Ren throws stasis fields, he has a far greater ability to read minds than any Jedi has shown, he's on a level with Vader reading Luke's mind in Return. He has power, he is strong, Rey beat him because reasons. It was a nice fight, and it fit thematically, and it worked, but it's ending also completely undermined the character and made him almost Hayden Christensson like.

Still, he's the low point in a great film for me. Poser Vader and giant Palpatine (I know it's a hologram) were never going to live up to the originals, that's the peril of making your sequel a remake.

 

[Chris Mosher]

Actually, now that you mention it hat is a VERY good comparison. Luke had flying and dogfighting experience, but it was with a subsonic air-speeder with an underpowered laser cannon, somehow he still learned how to fly a light-speed capable starfighter with 4 highly powerful lasers and torpedo launchers. Rei had experience with melee fighting, but it was some sort of metal staff, not a light saber.

In both cases, it was enough for them to go on, but then their force powers help them out.

EDIT: Also, my family is calling it now for the next film: Rei is the daughter of Luke Skywalker, and Finn is the son of Lando Calrissian.

If anything I actually saw Kylo's story as the parallelt to Luke's given the conflict between the light and the dark.
I dont want 8 to be a retread of Empire but i do think that Rey needs to suffer some setback. Perhaps have it come midway and then gave a victory that somehow benefits both the First Order and the Resistance.
As for parentage I can see Rey being a Skywalker as well but i hope that Finn stays not connected to the past. The worlds already feels too small with the connections to the past but if Finn is Lando's son I would not be surprised.

 

[Chris Mosher]

My problem with Rey is that writers want her to be the new Luke AND Han at the same time.
I mean, she can use the Force without proper training, she has great skill when it comes to melee weapons, same with repairs, she can fly the Falcon so well even Han is impressed and then she inherits the damn ship. Together with Chewie as the bonus.
I know the definition of Mary Sue is questionable, but DAMN, don't tell me she doesn't fall very close to one, at least.

After I saw the movie, I read an interview where Poe was supposed to die in the Tie fighter crash but they liked Isaac so much they kept him for around for they fighter sequences. I had always pegged him as the Han character but because if the script changes he ended up with the thinnest character. That being said i can see how you would get the Han/Rey thing especially with how close they become to the point where even Kylo senses their attachment when interrogating Rey. I love the you would be disappointed line.

Finn and Poe have great chemistry and I am sure the line "You keep the jacket" will launch a thousand shippers. So i am glad he will be around and i hope the writers give him a chance to come into his own.

 

[WolfThomas]

-The whole thing with Rey defeating him and whether it was believable has been argued to death already in this thread, so I won't rehash it, but even if you can logic leap your way into saying it was believable that this girl who has never even touched a lightsaber and has no training in the force defeats a guy who trained for years under Luke Skywalker, it still makes him a shitty villain. Imagine if in the original "Rocky", they had made it so that Rocky was a baker, but he still stepped into the ring and defeated Creed with zero training because he possesses the mystical "Eye of the Tiger". When the villain trains and prepares for something extensively, and then the hero does absolutely nothing but still wins, it doesn't make the hero compelling in the slightest.

It has been argued to death and in many ways I agree. But your Rocky metaphor isn't exactly accurate. More like Rocky the Baker defeats Apollo Creed who has just stabbed his father to death and then been shot in the gut.

 

[Glongpre]

I was just thinking.

Ren is so unrefined. Who taught him about the dark side? (The terribly named) Snoke? What does Snoke actually know? Maybe Ren just thinks showing anger all the time is what the dark side is all about, hence his frequent tantrums?

If we recall the other sith, they always seemed fairly composed outside of combat. They would use all the failures around them, take it in, let it stew until they needed the energy to defeat their opponents. Take Darth Maul. During the brief moments we see him, he is relaxed, monotone. Once he starts fighting, he uses all that pent up anger and passion to fuel his martial abilities, like an adrenaline rush. At the end when waiting for the force fields, he paces back and forth, anxious to fight.
Similarly, Palpatine. Seems really relaxed, but once in combat, he goes batshit insane, yelling and laughing passionately (which is almost comical).

Anakin went through the same thing as Ren, and once he became Vader, he became the terrifying dude everyone loves from the OT.

Ren is good because he has something to improve! His understanding of the dark side perhaps is lacking. He can only get better as the series goes on, which is interesting. Who will he turn to in the next movie for training? Imagine how much more powerful he will be when he learns to compose himself and unleash his powers in combat.