Lack of JRPGs entirely predictable.

[Eclipse Dragon]

>Ni No Kuni

..Did you really list a JP-only game?

Ni No Kuni is actually getting localized, the release date is early 2013... I'm looking forward to it.

Here's an English trailer
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/trailers/5587-Ni-No-Kuni-Wrath-of-the-White-Witch-Trailer

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh, no, don't tell me you're one of the people who takes Extra Credits seriously on RPGs (or in general).

You and I agree on a lot. But not here. I'm with Extra Credits on this one, that while "jRPG" might not be the best term. jRPGs and wRPGs seem to be two distinct genres.

Oh, I do think they're two distinct genres

I just don't think that Dark Souls, a game released in Japan for consoles that plays exactly like a Japanese action RPG, is a WRPG.

 

[Kahunaburger]

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halp why is the text not turning green

 

[DigitalAtlas]

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

They're not?

I wish they weren't. And I hate how people use their lack of popularity this generation, against them. With things like "Japan needs to stop making jRPGs ever again, Westerners don't want that anime crap." But I can't deny they're right that the genre has become less popular or plentiful just to spite them. Believe me, I'd like to pretend otherwise. I really would. Furthermore, Japanese style RPG numbers are starting to be replaced by Japanese developers trying to make Western RPGs.

Here, let's us the limited, but still best database for video gaming in the internet I know of thus far, to help me show this and source my claim.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/list-73
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/list-48
This generation of consoles.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-73
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/list-48

Last generation of consoles.

The PlayStation 2 has more than twice as many jRPGs as the PlayStation 3. And well more than all of the consoles this generation put together. Most of the "Action RPGs" from the PlayStation are wRPGs. While most of the Action RPGs on the PlayStation 2 are jRPGs.

Sure, the XBOX and Gamecube of last generation may not have had much. But I can see a clear different in number between them. The lion's share each generation come from Sony. The XBOX number of jRPGs has gone a little bit. But the Nintendo number of jRPGs has stayed pretty much the same. Both just having a little over a dozen real jRPGs.

YOU! YES, YOU! YOU CAN STAY!!! In fact, please do. I'll even be civil and make a much more structured argument if you do.

Oh, no, don't tell me you're one of the people who takes Extra Credits seriously on RPGs (or in general).

You and I agree on a lot. But not here. I'm with Extra Credits on this one, that while "jRPG" might not be the best term. jRPGs and wRPGs seem to be two distinct genres.

^This. They're completely different. WRPGs are more about freedom of the player (usually less about creativity of the setting)

Oh, no, don't tell me you're one of the people who takes Extra Credits seriously on RPGs (or in general).

I actually can't stand Extra Creditz. At all. I think it's a rag-tag group of amateur game analysts that have no idea what they're talking about most of the time. Their intentions are great. Not so much their facts.... Good taste in games though, usually.

 

[LilithSlave]

The fact is, a JRPG is never going to sell on the same level as a game like Uncharted, Halo, or Gears. It really is a niche genre with a smaller demographic. Why do you think we had to fight to get three Wii games over here?

I want to think that's not true. I'm not sure who to agree with anymore.

jRPGs used to seem to be doing great. They're among the highest selling games on several consoles. But look at the gaming industry now. Almost everyone talking about it is trashing it. And when a new RPG comes out, look at the Escapist. If it's a jRPG, nobody is silent, threads actually made get few posts or even none at all. wRPGs, on the other hand, get dozens. It's sad.

I would like to see jRPGs stay themselves, but also be a successful genre and not niche. I would at least like to see them go back to being as successful as they used to be, if not more so.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

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halp why is the text not turning green

Really? Fyi, I don't go to 4chan. It's a great tool for quickly pointing out what part of someone's post you'd like to discuss. I did in fact pick it up from a friend who goes on /v/ a lot. But.... Let's put it this way... If I were from 4chan, is it right to discriminate?

>Ni No Kuni

..Did you really list a JP-only game?

Ni No Kuni is actually getting localized, the release date is early 2013... I'm looking forward to it.

Here's an English trailer
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/trailers/5587-Ni-No-Kuni-Wrath-of-the-White-Witch-Trailer

Thank you for trying to be informative here. I do know it's coming, but since it hasn't come out, I can't acknowledge it. I don't like talking about games that haven't come out yet.

However, if I misled anybody with my vague post, I apologize. The game is only CURRENTLY Japan only, for the Nintendo DS.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Of those publishers you mentioned only Nintendo is larger than Activision or EA, with Capcom being a fraction of their size, but that doesn't change the realities of game development in Japan. They are given less money to make games that they are pressured into making absurdly graphically powerful with a smaller team and have to build a new engine from scratch. This is why these games are not being made much anymore, it just isn't economically feasible given the current system of making these games. As for Keiji, he's a moron. New ideas come up all the time in all parts of the industry, including Japan, and I have no idea what this has to do with your argument that JRPGs are failing because of a lack of an audience. As for why we had to fight so hard, Nintendo of America is made of morons. Seriously, those guys are fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with a lack of an audience.

You. You can stay too.

>Keiji Inafune a moron

I'm coming off as civil as a guy with a Mega Man avatar can here when I say: Trust me, I've done a lot of studying into eastern development practices. They're pretty.... terrible. The only people in Japan, who aren't owned by Nintendo, that come up with really cool and new ideas are the guys over at Platinum Games. You are right about some practices however, they are given far less money, especially games publishers like Atlus and XSEED grab. Capcom is the exception generally having rather large budgets only to not use it to the fullest extent.

Back to JRPGs now, NoA isn't as bad as Jim Sterling made them out to be. I know it's shocking, but they actually try a lot of things. In fact, they wanted a Zelda HD collection for the 25th anniversary of the franchise. I know there were even charts showing how well games sold, but Nintendo hasn't given a flying eff about sales since ever. What NoA saw, was a lot of poor localization complaints (especially towards Muramasa, NiGHTS, and Arc Rise Fantasia)and was trying to avoid that by not sullying their brand. It was actually intelligent NOT to bring the games over right away. But it shouldn't have had to go as far as it did.

Still, most of those games localized on Wii? 200,000 units is not at all a lot in this industry anymore. It's, in fact, reason to close shop.

Xenoblade chronicles likely sold better than or as well as its predecessor within the Xenosaga series, something that has not been done for some time, so it actually shows that the audience is growing, making it an excellent counterpoint to your argument really. I have yet to play the game myself, though I do plan on it. College ruins everything.

Edit-

>Monster Hunter
>Only on Wii, a system not mentioned here

Nintendo is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

Don't do this, especially when Wii games are now a major part of your argument.

Edit2- Oh, I have no clue what your avatar looks like btw. Everyone is Bieber for me right now.

 

[Aerosteam]

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

The 'J' in JRPG stands for 'Japanese', meaning it's from Japan.

The 'J' does not mean it contains outrageous-haired people who don't look their age.

A JRPG can look gritty like Dark Souls, but hardly anyone seems to be doing that because... well, I don't know.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

The fact is, a JRPG is never going to sell on the same level as a game like Uncharted, Halo, or Gears. It really is a niche genre with a smaller demographic. Why do you think we had to fight to get three Wii games over here?

I want to think that's not true. I'm not sure who to agree with anymore.

jRPGs used to seem to be doing great. They're among the highest selling games on several consoles. But look at the gaming industry now. Almost everyone talking about it is trashing it. And when a new RPG comes out, look at the Escapist. If it's a jRPG, nobody is silent, threads actually made get few posts or even none at all. wRPGs, on the other hand, get dozens. It's sad.

I would like to see jRPGs stay themselves, but also be a successful genre and not niche. I would at least like to see them go back to being as successful as they used to be, if not more so.

And now we come down to what this thread was about:

I really don't believe JRPGs decreased in popularity, at all. I think the people who played FFVI and FFVII will mostly stick around for every future entry. The thing is, I think the industry grew to attract so many different kinds of people that the genre couldn't gain anymore momentum. If I'm coming off as confusing, let me explain it this way: 200,000 units shipped was amazing back in 1995 and kept companies like Working Designs moving. 200,000 units now is reason to never touch a product again.

This is why I think it's a niche though. Because to be into JRPGs, you almost had to be into them when they were getting their audience, or rather permanent resident. And because of that, it just seems it isn't growing anymore, and if it is, not nearly as much.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Of those publishers you mentioned only Nintendo is larger than Activision or EA, with Capcom being a fraction of their size, but that doesn't change the realities of game development in Japan. They are given less money to make games that they are pressured into making absurdly graphically powerful with a smaller team and have to build a new engine from scratch. This is why these games are not being made much anymore, it just isn't economically feasible given the current system of making these games. As for Keiji, he's a moron. New ideas come up all the time in all parts of the industry, including Japan, and I have no idea what this has to do with your argument that JRPGs are failing because of a lack of an audience. As for why we had to fight so hard, Nintendo of America is made of morons. Seriously, those guys are fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with a lack of an audience.

You. You can stay too.

>Keiji Inafune a moron

I'm coming off as civil as a guy with a Mega Man avatar can here when I say: Trust me, I've done a lot of studying into eastern development practices. They're pretty.... terrible. The only people in Japan, who aren't owned by Nintendo, that come up with really cool and new ideas are the guys over at Platinum Games. You are right about some practices however, they are given far less money, especially games publishers like Atlus and XSEED grab. Capcom is the exception generally having rather large budgets only to not use it to the fullest extent.

Back to JRPGs now, NoA isn't as bad as Jim Sterling made them out to be. I know it's shocking, but they actually try a lot of things. In fact, they wanted a Zelda HD collection for the 25th anniversary of the franchise. I know there were even charts showing how well games sold, but Nintendo hasn't given a flying eff about sales since ever. What NoA saw, was a lot of poor localization complaints (especially towards Muramasa, NiGHTS, and Arc Rise Fantasia)and was trying to avoid that by not sullying their brand. It was actually intelligent NOT to bring the games over right away. But it shouldn't have had to go as far as it did.

Still, most of those games localized on Wii? 200,000 units is not at all a lot in this industry anymore. It's, in fact, reason to close shop.

Xenoblade chronicles likely sold better than or as well as its predecessor within the Xenosaga series, something that has not been done for some time, so it actually shows that the audience is growing, making it an excellent counterpoint to your argument really. I have yet to play the game myself, though I do plan on it. College ruins everything.

Edit-

>Monster Hunter
>Only on Wii, a system not mentioned here

Nintendo is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

Don't do this, especially when Wii games are now a major part of your argument.

I'd love to include the Wii. Why I don't? People keep bashing it. Mainly because games aren't as shiny? I don't know. Any way, I was only using Nintendo as an example of a big Japanese publisher and like here, they vary in size and bank.

Still, Xenoblade selling well is a great thing. But, like FFVII before it, is an exception to the rule and not the rule itself.

 

[hermes]

They didn't disappear, its just that the cost to develop high end games on consoles is so high, and games so expensive, few companies take the risk to make them (and even fewer take the risk to import them).

However, you should check those platforms where the cost is not that high. Handheld consoles, mobiles or even downloadable games on PC, and you will see many genres are still healthy there.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

They didn't disappear, its just that the cost to develop high end games on consoles is so high, and games so expensive, few companies take the risk to make them (and even fewer take the risk to import them).

However, you should check those platforms where the cost is not that high. Handheld consoles, mobiles or even downloadable games on PC, and you will see many genres are still healthy there.

Thankfully, but it sadly isn't the same.

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

The 'J' in JRPG stands for 'Japanese', meaning it's from Japan.

The 'J' does not mean it contains outrageous-haired people who don't look their age.

A JRPG can look gritty like Dark Souls, but hardly anyone seems to be doing that because... well, I don't know.

You can go now. It's not the country it's from. It's the people who made it and the themes in game.

I would NEVER consider a game from P* anything but heavily Western. Not because they're based in Canada, because they're all in Japan, but because they're (as they call themselves) Westaboos. It's about the audience you're aiming at and the themes from what mythos you include. It has absolutely nothing to do with the country other than the origins of the mythos.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

*holyfuckthatneededsnipping*

I'd love to include the Wii. Why I don't? People keep bashing it. Mainly because games aren't as shiny? I don't know. Any way, I was only using Nintendo as an example of a big Japanese publisher and like here, they vary in size and bank.

Still, Xenoblade selling well is a great thing. But, like FFVII before it, is an exception to the rule and not the rule itself.

Fuck what other people think! Nintendo consoles, both handhelds and home consoles, are where JRPGs are at right now, as are many of my other favorite games. People who join in console wars like that aren't worth letting influence your arguments.

As for Xenoblade's sales, I don't really see it as an exception to the rule. It was outselling its earlier equivalent in Europe before all of this even started, same with Japan but that doesn't really fit into your argument. This despite the terrible sales that the Wii has in Europe as compared to the rest of the first world.

 

[Tony2077]

magna carta 2 kind of break the reasons you people are saying since its a jrpg but its from Korea

 

[DigitalAtlas]

magna carta 2 kind of break the reasons you people are saying since its a jrpg but its from Korea

Nope! New genre! KRPG! Seriously, thank you for posting that. It's about the THEMES.

*holyfuckthatneededsnipping*

I'd love to include the Wii. Why I don't? People keep bashing it. Mainly because games aren't as shiny? I don't know. Any way, I was only using Nintendo as an example of a big Japanese publisher and like here, they vary in size and bank.

Still, Xenoblade selling well is a great thing. But, like FFVII before it, is an exception to the rule and not the rule itself.

Fuck what other people think! Nintendo consoles, both handhelds and home consoles, are where JRPGs are at right now, as are many of my other favorite games. People who join in console wars like that aren't worth letting influence your arguments.

As for Xenoblade's sales, I don't really see it as an exception to the rule. It was outselling its earlier equivalent in Europe before all of this even started, same with Japan but that doesn't really fit into your argument. This despite the terrible sales that the Wii has in Europe as compared to the rest of the first world.

I agree as far as Nintendo consoles go. The Wii has so many exceptional titles of multiple genres where Xbox 360 and PS3 are kind of.... lacking. But this isn't a console debate. If we include the Wii, we can include a few more. Still not an overwhelming amount though.

Sadly, Xenoblade is an exception because it's the only one to sell that well. It's on a platform that is widely under appreciated (sigh) and it's only one title.

And now we come down to what this thread was about:

I really don't believe JRPGs decreased in popularity, at all. I think the people who played FFVI and FFVII will mostly stick around for every future entry. The thing is, I think the industry grew to attract so many different kinds of people that the genre couldn't gain anymore momentum. If I'm coming off as confusing, let me explain it this way: 200,000 units shipped was amazing back in 1995 and kept companies like Working Designs moving. 200,000 units now is reason to never touch a product again.

This is why I think it's a niche though. Because to be into JRPGs, you almost had to be into them when they were getting their audience, or rather permanent resident. And because of that, it just seems it isn't growing anymore, and if it is, not nearly as much.

Except that Final Fantasy VII sold millions of copies, not hundreds of thousands. In fact, according to Google it sold... *runs off to check Google* oh wow. Within 3 days of release, it sold 2.3 million copies in Japan alone. In its debut weekend in America, it sold 330,000 copies. In a weekend. As of 2005, it had sold 9.8 million copies.

That's more than 'amazing for the time'. That's pretty much the entire sales of the Mass Effect trilogy matched by a single game.

Hell, I'm pretty sure Final Fantasy XII outsold any of the Mass Effect games. *Runs off to check again* Yep, 5.5 million copies sold.

When JRPGs not only sold millions back in the day, but still manage to outsell some of the biggest WRPG titles around right now, then it's downright ignorant to call them a niche genre.

Actually, despite your tone, you did exactly what I asked in the opening post: fact checking. Though let's try something like Wild Arms and Xenogears? Maybe? I think we can all agree not every JRPG can be FF.

 

[burningdragoon]

Ok going off topic for a sec...

I get the JRPGs come from Japan thing, I do. It makes sense from a literal point of view (and I love me some literal points of view), but if we accept that, it tells us nothing new about the game other than where it was made. And if that's the case, what's the point of even having the distinction?

If Square Enix moved the entire Final Fantasy development team to the US before starting the next installment, would it stop being a JRPG?

MTV stands for music television and yet, they sometimes (most times) don't play any music. AMC stands for American Movie Classics and sometimes they play shitty movies that aren't even close to "classic" other than being old, sometimes they aren't even old. Oh yeah, and sometimes the play stuff that isn't even a movie. KFC stands for Kentucky Fried Chicken and you could probably argue over if it's actually chicken (>.>). It's okay if a label no longer has the same meaning as it used to, so there's no reason to hold so tightly onto the "JRPGs come from Japan" view.

On topic (kinda at least)...

I haven't really noticed any significant "lack" of JRPGs, just a lack of ones I'd want to play. Maybe I just don't like them anymore, maybe they have stagnated, maybe it's just because I don't have a PSP or DS. I dunno.

 

[Tony2077]

magna carta 2 kind of break the reasons you people are saying since its a jrpg but its from Korea

Nope! New genre! KRPG! Seriously, thank you for posting that. It's about the THEMES.

KRPG nice but how many games would fit in the new genre. it says it from a Korean based developer but doesn't say how well it did there. All i see are Japan NA and EU release dates

 

[LilithSlave]

Except that Final Fantasy VII sold millions of copies, not hundreds of thousands. In fact, according to Google it sold... *runs off to check Google* oh wow. Within 3 days of release, it sold 2.3 million copies in Japan alone. In its debut weekend in America, it sold 330,000 copies. In a weekend. As of 2005, it had sold 9.8 million copies.

Yeah, I'm going to go with this here. Because it's right. If you'll notice, I'm not picking side, here. Because it's not about whether jRPGs are good or not. So I'm not quite as emotionally invested. I'm just trying to be logical here and figure things out, what with citing the number of jRPGs between generations, and now money statistics.

I forgot to even count handhelds into consideration. At the very least though, jRPGs on the console seem to be in somewhat of a slump.

Speaking of handhelds, if this wikipedia entry is properly cited at all, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time] Dragon Quest IX sold over 5 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-sqenixmay2010-105]. Final Fantasy VII has sold more than 10 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-128], Final Fantasy VIII has sold more than 8 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-129], Final Fantasy IX has sold over 5 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-135], Final Fantasy X has sold over 6 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-ffx2-140], Pokemon Red and Blue have sold over 23 million copies [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-magicboxjapan-59], and Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire have sold over 13 million copies. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games_of_all_time#cite_note-nintendoQ2-2005report-98]

Unfortunately, this doesn't count much other than Pokemon and Final Fantasy.