Latest Xbox Dashboard Update Makes Pirates Sad

[Canid117]

I like how Microsoft never came out and said "We have new anti piracy software and it is unbeatable!" The less you antagonize pirates the less they view it as a direct challenge and the less high cracking your system is on their list of priorities.

 

[hyperdrachen]

How long has it been common knowledge federal regulations forbid unautharized copies of media? Yes it sucks that we can't legitimatly backup our games, and I blame the swap parties, and filesharing sites for that.

Dead wrong. Fair use. It is legal to make copies for personal use. DRM violates fair use. And you don't have to be a pirate to do some research. It isn't pretty, what DRM is doing to our media and others.

Can you cite your source because all I'm going off of is federal warnings on copywritten material. Fair use, as I know it, only encompasses the reproduction of small percentages of the copywritten material. For instance, a walkthrough of a campaign level shot on video. But a complete reproduction of the software constitutes an unautharized copy.

I don't see what's so "ugly" about not being able to run off copies of your games. Then again I don't usually look at it from a legal loophole, wordmincing, extravaganza. I'm interested in what seems ethical and fair to me. So to me I don't see it as ethical or fair for people to be distributing copies of somone elses work. When you buy that disc you get the liscense for 1 copy.

I return to my original point. Yes personal backups would be handy.... though I have yet to have a game DVD fail on me. I do have these pretty amazing protective cases for them though. In seriousness, my actual need to make a copy of a game for any reason other than getting a free copy off of a rental or friends game, is pretty much only in theory. So i'll trade that convinience to squash millions of pirates.

What kills me in all my time being a nerd I have never met these people that backup a copy of thier game for personal use only. The same goes for music movies etc. I have however been to plenty of lan parties, or seedy shops that are passing out pirated copies of wtf ever you could imagine wanting. These "backups" as far as I'm concerned only exist as an ethereal devils advocate on the internet. An ingenuine attempt to make me believe that DRM was somehow introduced to screw me, the paying customer, and not the people pirating software.

I'm not seeing it. I go to the store I purchase a new game for 60 bucks. As I'm rather picky with games I usually end up saying "hey well worth 60" or "eh... might not be buying from this dev again soon". I don't experience the drama of this consumer rape that apparently is what's "really going on". There have been some cocked up attempts at anti-piracy, and I'm the first one to chastise clumsy DRM attempts, "always connected" or usb dongles for example. But "have an original disc" seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[pepitko]

If this does screw up somebody's legit copy of a game, then I hold you pirates out there directly responsible for it. Make all the excuses you want, measures such as this would never be necessary if you purchased your games like every normal law-abiding citizen.

Finally someone speaking sense out there. What do you please suggest Microsoft should have done? I'm asking for specific ideas, not just "Microsoft epic fail, blah blah."

 

[Akalistos]

I'll ask you this Tom Goldman; Why care when you bought the game?

Because if for some reason a game fails this disc check even once your console is banned. So unless the system gets absolutely zero false positives some legitimate customers will be getting screwed.

And how can that happen? If the game is unreadable, then the game won't start. If the game froze during a level, you already pass that test so your still in the green (so to speak).

There more chance of being hit by a plane than a legitimate game failing that test. So, don't cry Wolf yet bpm195.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? In any software system there are many places where things can potential go wrong, and in general there are many places where things do go wrong. Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Perhaps they've created a perfect system, but as with any piece of software if I have to be for or against the presence of bugs, I'm betting that they will exist.

Let me underline some words in your reply:

Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Basically, your calling bullshit on the basis that problem nobody have witness yet but may happen. Do you really think they wouldn't test it beforehand? Do you really think that they wouldn't try with either old and new game to see if there's bugs? Do you really think they would just half-ass it? If you say Yes to any of this, than your either a lying or a troll.

 

[bpm195]

I'll ask you this Tom Goldman; Why care when you bought the game?

Because if for some reason a game fails this disc check even once your console is banned. So unless the system gets absolutely zero false positives some legitimate customers will be getting screwed.

And how can that happen? If the game is unreadable, then the game won't start. If the game froze during a level, you already pass that test so your still in the green (so to speak).

There more chance of being hit by a plane than a legitimate game failing that test. So, don't cry Wolf yet bpm195.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? In any software system there are many places where things can potential go wrong, and in general there are many places where things do go wrong. Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Perhaps they've created a perfect system, but as with any piece of software if I have to be for or against the presence of bugs, I'm betting that they will exist.

Let me underline some words in your reply:

Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Basically, your calling bullshit on the basis that problem nobody have witness yet but may happen. Do you really think they wouldn't test it beforehand? Do you really think that they wouldn't try with either old and new game to see if there's bugs? Do you really think they would just half-ass it? If you say Yes to any of this, than your either a lying or a troll.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? Moreover, have you ever used software from Microsoft that was completely bug free?

I recognize that it may seem paranoid to assume that there will be problems. However considering that people are already complaining about problems occurring and how remarkably improbable it is that there won't be any bugs in the software, I'm very inclined to assume that this DRM solution will cause problems for legitimate users. I assume they use good programming practices and have a system that works in the overwhelming majority of their internal testing. Even with the best practices bugs occur for end users.

So unless the software is perfect, it's going to introduce problems for end users.

 

[Akalistos]

I'll ask you this Tom Goldman; Why care when you bought the game?

Because if for some reason a game fails this disc check even once your console is banned. So unless the system gets absolutely zero false positives some legitimate customers will be getting screwed.

And how can that happen? If the game is unreadable, then the game won't start. If the game froze during a level, you already pass that test so your still in the green (so to speak).

There more chance of being hit by a plane than a legitimate game failing that test. So, don't cry Wolf yet bpm195.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? In any software system there are many places where things can potential go wrong, and in general there are many places where things do go wrong. Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Perhaps they've created a perfect system, but as with any piece of software if I have to be for or against the presence of bugs, I'm betting that they will exist.

Let me underline some words in your reply:

Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Basically, your calling bullshit on the basis that problem nobody have witness yet but may happen. Do you really think they wouldn't test it beforehand? Do you really think that they wouldn't try with either old and new game to see if there's bugs? Do you really think they would just half-ass it? If you say Yes to any of this, than your either a lying or a troll.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? Moreover, have you ever used software from Microsoft that was completely bug free?

I recognize that it may seem paranoid to assume that there will be problems. However considering that people are already complaining about problems occurring and how remarkably improbable it is that there won't be any bugs in the software, I'm very inclined to assume that this DRM solution will cause problems for legitimate users. I assume they use good programming practices and have a system that works in the overwhelming majority of their internal testing. Even with the best practices bugs occur for end users.

So unless the software is perfect, it's going to introduce problems for end users.

And back to you bpm195, Have you ever seen tested program that failed WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT WITHOUT BEING A BETA? I can agree that, for example, two program can be in conflict and crash a computer. How could they foresee that? But there's little to no F'ing chance in hell, heaven, Asgard, After-life or whatever you believe in that a tested program can failed at what it's supposed to do.

I do have to agree that with you on one point though. It is Paranoia.

 

[Akalistos]

How long has it been common knowledge federal regulations forbid unautharized copies of media? Yes it sucks that we can't legitimatly backup our games, and I blame the swap parties, and filesharing sites for that.

Dead wrong. Fair use. It is legal to make copies for personal use. DRM violates fair use. And you don't have to be a pirate to do some research. It isn't pretty, what DRM is doing to our media and others.

Can you cite your source because all I'm going off of is federal warnings on copywritten material. Fair use, as I know it, only encompasses the reproduction of small percentages of the copywritten material. For instance, a walkthrough of a campaign level shot on video. But a complete reproduction of the software constitutes an unautharized copy.

I don't know if the EULA change since 1998 but I recall that Reproduction of owned material was legal as long as you didn't make money out of it. If it has change (which wouldn't surprise me at all,) there's a chance that he just he's referring to an old version of the EULA.

But anyways, You wouldn't need copy @Direwolf750 If you take care of your own property.

 

[thublihnk]

Yarr, I be angry. (Not really, I don't pirate console games.)

Also: I can't imagine this won't have some form of collateral damage on paying customers. Just like every other anti-piracy measure.

But you do pirate PC games?

Used to, but Steam made it more convenient to NOT pirate. So I stopped.

 

[bpm195]

I'll ask you this Tom Goldman; Why care when you bought the game?

Because if for some reason a game fails this disc check even once your console is banned. So unless the system gets absolutely zero false positives some legitimate customers will be getting screwed.

And how can that happen? If the game is unreadable, then the game won't start. If the game froze during a level, you already pass that test so your still in the green (so to speak).

There more chance of being hit by a plane than a legitimate game failing that test. So, don't cry Wolf yet bpm195.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? In any software system there are many places where things can potential go wrong, and in general there are many places where things do go wrong. Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Perhaps they've created a perfect system, but as with any piece of software if I have to be for or against the presence of bugs, I'm betting that they will exist.

Let me underline some words in your reply:

Whether there are any situations that actually cause a false positive is yet to be seen, I don't appreciate potential problems being introduced to my setup to protect their interests from pirates.

Basically, your calling bullshit on the basis that problem nobody have witness yet but may happen. Do you really think they wouldn't test it beforehand? Do you really think that they wouldn't try with either old and new game to see if there's bugs? Do you really think they would just half-ass it? If you say Yes to any of this, than your either a lying or a troll.

Have you ever used any software that was completely bug free? Moreover, have you ever used software from Microsoft that was completely bug free?

I recognize that it may seem paranoid to assume that there will be problems. However considering that people are already complaining about problems occurring and how remarkably improbable it is that there won't be any bugs in the software, I'm very inclined to assume that this DRM solution will cause problems for legitimate users. I assume they use good programming practices and have a system that works in the overwhelming majority of their internal testing. Even with the best practices bugs occur for end users.

So unless the software is perfect, it's going to introduce problems for end users.

And back to you bpm195, Have you ever seen tested program that failed WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT WITHOUT BEING A BETA? I can agree that, for example, two program can be in conflict and crash a computer. How could they foresee that? But there's little to no F'ing chance in hell, heaven, Asgard, After-life or whatever you believe in that a tested program can failed at what it's supposed to do.

I do have to agree that with you on one point though. It is Paranoia.

Yes. I've had BioShock's DRM fail on uninstallation every time I tried to uninstall it, so that the most reason time I felt like playing it I was out of luck.

Going further back in time to my original Xbox, the software CD player refused to play any CD-Rs that I burned and gave me the same error when I tried to play my Freezepop CDs. I don't recall my exact conversation with their support, but ultimately the same protection that stopped me from playing CD-Rs full of illegally was stopping me from playing CD-Rs of legitmately burned CD-Rs as well as stopping me from playing CDs I bought straight from a band.

In regards to the 360 specifically, I've yet to have a pure software failure outside of a game crash. However, I did have one console repaired for an RRoD and they sent it back to me they failed to do a liscense transfer, so I had to delete 10 gigs of data so that I could download it again because of Microsoft's screw up. Ironically, the primary reason I don't pirate games is because I hate downloading large amounts of data.

So yes, I have had retail software fail at what they were trying to implement.

 

[RvLeshrac]

Just a question from a non pirate but is that update legal? I don't remember being informed of this and I thought they had to tell you exactly what is in an update?

Probably wrong but I thought I'd ask.

I thought this was in the EULA you have to accept when you first install the update

EULA is not legally binding.

It really should be though. It would make things a lot easier and help the industry a lot.

No it shouldn't be. They can put anything into a EULA.

That's why you read it and not agree to it if you don't like something.

..and then what do you do? Return it?? LOL

You don't install it.

XBox Live updates aren't mandatory, except for Live access. The EULA is for XBox Live.

 

[TaintedNails]

I hate the new update. Everytime it starts up, i get the reading rainbow theme in my head now, cause of that stupid green rainbow that flies into the Xbox logo. trust me run it thru ur head the next time you start it up! I wish they let you edit the color scheme, cause it is really freaking bright and ugly.

 

[Leyvin]

Alright few things I saw in this thread that need cleaning up...
The End-User License Agreement is a legally binding contract, if you don't read it; then well tough as ignorance of the terms you have agreed to is not a valid case in court.

The Anti-Piracy Enhancements, which while could be called "Stealthware" as they are not officially documented to be part of the update; fact is every dashboard has had updates of this to try to prevent piracy.

What is actually impressive about this newly employed method (which should've been in the NXE Dashboard update originally) is that it has a number of fail-safe systems.

Fact really is, unless you have a modded console you have nothing to worry about. That is why the anti-piracy software is there and not announced, because it doesn't affect those who aren't breaking the EULA. In-fact every single manual now includes an outline EULA explaining the disc replacement service; which as is provided nullifies any legal right to create back-up copies of software.

Actually on this very issue that has had many people at each others throats for a while, I have heard rumours that due to the dramatic drop in piracy of Games for Windows Live tites; that Xbox 360 might be seeing a similar implimentation.

Disc Read Errors, which just to jog peoples memories were quite bad with Halo:Reach; which was available pre-November 2010 update.. are actually a by-product of the new scratch resistance coating that discs are now given, this was a change made in preparation for Kinect software as it is expected (particularly with titles like Sonic Riders and Kinectimals) that more small children would be playing 360; as such they are usually a bit rougher on DVDs than older children and adults.

If you are experiencing Read Errors, then always check to make sure the disc is clean; would also recommend using a CD/DVD Cleaner in your Xbox 360 every 1-4months depending on how heavily you use your Xbox 360. You might believe yourself to be living in a surgically clean space but fact is every household has dust, eventually it does build up.