Laws of physics broken as a perpetual motion machine was invented
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there IS air resistance in space, it's just very small...about 1 hydrogen atom per cubic meter. bit it will still eventually slow down.RocksW said:
In space, an object is affected by the gravity of other objects (especially planitoids) which will eventually slow the object (depending on its original speed) and either force it into an orbit or a collision. Hypothetically though, if an object could be set in motion in empty space (far enough away from other objects that collisions would be impossible and the effect of gravity would be nil)it would geep going forever.RocksW said:
There is no air resistance; that's just one way friction can occur. Sure, something could travel in a straight line for a very long time (unless/until it got caught or stopped by a gravitational field), but having something go in a straight line does nothing meaningful. For a machine like the one in the OP, there would be a substantial amount of friction between where all the different parts connect. This friction generates an opposing force, as well as heat that (due to space being a vacuum) wouldn't go anywhere. Heat buildup is a big problem.RocksW said:
This is incorrect - heat can certainly be lost to a vacuum, in fact, virtually all heat that is produced eventually ends up in space. It is highly unlikly that the friction of objects moving in space would cause any significant heat buildup.MGlBlaze said:
True, but it's very slow. Since there is no atmosphere to provide convectional heat loss, the object needs to rely on radiation. Depending on how fast the parts were traveling, the heat buildup could potentially be very significant. If nothing else it would cause parts to expand and could halt it altogether. Another problem is wear and tear. Not that thermal expansion or wear and tear would be unique to a vacuum, but I don't think the vacuum would be helping with the thermal buildup situation.Vipoid said:
I think you guys are losing focus. There are no perfect machines, so there will always be losses.
But even if there existed some "ideal" machine with zero friction, it could at best achieve unity efficiency and run forever with zero input and zero output. Think of a perfect pendulum swinging forever and never slowing. Not useful, but still very interesting.
The device will still slow and eventually stop as you extract energy.
"perpetual motion" machines claim to achieve above unity efficiency and wouldn't slow as you extract energy. This is impossible with conventional dynamics (mechanical dynamics, electromagnetic dynamics, and thermodynamics).
There may exist some yet undiscovered quantum-dynamic property that allows for greater-than-unity machines...but you're not going to accidentally discover that with bicycle parts and magnets in your basement.
But even if there existed some "ideal" machine with zero friction, it could at best achieve unity efficiency and run forever with zero input and zero output. Think of a perfect pendulum swinging forever and never slowing. Not useful, but still very interesting.
The device will still slow and eventually stop as you extract energy.
"perpetual motion" machines claim to achieve above unity efficiency and wouldn't slow as you extract energy. This is impossible with conventional dynamics (mechanical dynamics, electromagnetic dynamics, and thermodynamics).
There may exist some yet undiscovered quantum-dynamic property that allows for greater-than-unity machines...but you're not going to accidentally discover that with bicycle parts and magnets in your basement.
Which bit of my post are you responding to? I'm not entirely sure which half you're responding to. If you could give me the names of the scientists it'd be handy to do further reading, too.PayJ567 said:
First off; I'll say I don't think this device works, as it moves too fast to be gravitationally powered once you count the off side that opposes gravity.Vipoid said:
Friction is something that always exists but will not stop it for certain. Every moving system tends towards equilibrium. heaviest part settles to the bottom, its in balance as long as both halves weigh the same.
If you add a force, be it a clever design to keep one side heavier than the other, or something else, the system begins to move. -as long as- the force making the object move is greater than the resistance (friction and counter weight) the object will continue to move.
The fallacy you are falling for here is that you believe the system to have a finite amount of energy with which to keep moving, which is expended constantly by friction. If you are using gravity however, a steady amount of energy is always added to the system.
Essentially; you -cannot- create a perpetual motion machine with gravity because the rules to qualify say you can't add energy to the mechanism to keep it going, what you can make is a device to convert gravitational force into electrical energy.
Said before but surely using the kinetic energy from gravity to make elecricity isn't creating energy from nothing simply converting it, therefore not perpetual motion.
Too true...Google "Steorn" to see a "free energy" scam that a lot of people have been throwing money at and which has never demonstrated anything substantial ever.thenumberthirteen said:
Perpetual motion machines are imposable as they violate the first and second laws of thermodynamics. You cant get round it, if you could then the universe would be a much different place to that which we observe. Anyone who claims that they have invented one is lying or misguided. There is a reason that they cal it the Law of Thermodynamics and not the Theory of Thermodynamics people. Don't believe the hype 
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