League of Legends Tournament Characters Banned By Iran
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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I'm not throwing stones. I'm not being hostile. The least you can do is return the courtesy. No reason to be throwing insults around. And if you aren't one of the "puritans" I'm referring to then my post really shouldn't be offensive to you.Pedro The Hutt said:
And yes, the sorceress actually was the biggest problem most people had with that game. Or did I just imagine this comic [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10495-A-Comic-About-Breasts] and this interview? [http://kotaku.com/the-artist-behind-dragons-crown-explains-his-exaggerat-482450927] (I'm not crapping on Critical Miss, I love Critical Miss. But the issues people had with Dragon's Crown did in fact seem to be purely cosmetic and this comic demonstrates that.) It had nothing to do with deeper issues that lied within the story. And I know this to be the case because people were offended by the game before it even came out. How can you claim they were offended because of elements that you would notice only by playing the game... if they got offended before they could actually play the game?
Once again the middle east has shown that it just isn't ready to put on its big boy pants.
Then again prudishness over animated characters is something both they and the United States has in common, they're just taking it to the next logical extreme.
Then again prudishness over animated characters is something both they and the United States has in common, they're just taking it to the next logical extreme.
Well, my bad, I thought you were just another guy ragging on the now (in)famous Polygon review [http://www.polygon.com/game/dragon-s-crown/9102] by Danielle Riendeau, which I might add I whole heartedly agree with, while the damsels and leg spreading lady-monks (yes) are a problem, what really killed it for me is how repetitive it gets, yes it's a scrolling brawler, but I usually enjoy those and I even greatly enjoyed Vanillaware's previous offering, Muramasa, but here it just feels like a drag, and it also doesn't help that they consistently make you crawl through the same dungeon repeatedly to take care of sidequests or even because the plot says so, and combat is oddly enough not frequent enough to eleviate this feeling of "Ugh, here we go again", Muramasa was basically a Metroidvania with tons of backtracking but at least it solved that by regularly throwing you into fights and using fighting mechanics that never get old. So not only does it have dubious attitudes towards women, it also is just painfully average.Belated said:
And my apologies for jumping to conclusions.
Wonder if this is because they have their hair out.
Why would even bother having this event there in the first place if its being this restrictive. Also I'm happy this post shall take my post count to 6969.
Why would even bother having this event there in the first place if its being this restrictive. Also I'm happy this post shall take my post count to 6969.
What's wrong with a middle ground whereby I would like games developers to not automatically create the majority of female characters as fan service, based on their own initiative that 'this is a good thing to do' rather than because some hardline theocracy is in 'ban this sick filth' mode?Belated said:
About a third. 115 characters, I think I recall only 36 being female.
On one hand I like the idea of their being ADC's besides Vayne and Caitlyn, but on the other hand this just stupid and sexist because Iran tends to be those things when it comes to women.
I mean, they banned Vi and Quinn. There's no compromising with these people that isn't a sex change for all the ladies.
it's that little imp floating around that does it, totally naked.Vhite said:Lulu? Seriously? Does this speaks of shameless heathen sex to you?
OT: I actually have a friend (pen pall, or e-mail pall, whatever) that lives in Iran, and he basicly face-rolled on his keyboard after hearing the news.
A lot of people over there go along with the islamic doctrines just because they don't wat to get into trouble, but don't really give a damn about the religion itself, it's pretty tiring and frustrating to have all those social norms and restrictions placed on you for something you don't even believe in, or interpret differently than the guy in charge.
I'm more confused by Kayle. The literally head-to-toe armored warrior. Didn't even know she was female until I heard her in-game voice (this was prior to seeing those helmet-less skins).Absolutionis said:
Still, it does say something about how some of these characters have silly designs. Like nami. A fish wearing no clothing (save a ceremonial hat and thigh?-plates), yet she just HAPPENS to have evolved a top that exposes significant cleavage. Akali, a ninja whose garb covers only the front of her breasts in a rather loose-seeming fashion (it's kinda hard to see how tight it fits, but the point is that the clothing choice seems to be just asking for her fairly large breasts to flop around and get in the way of her acrobatic fighting style). The chinese art seems to make a bit more sense, though it is still a bit odd to me why she isn't just wearing something like an armored body glove (like shen with non-baggy pants) considering what she does.
First, in response to something that you post a little later on in this thread, your tone is actually extremely hostile. You call out the majority of this site as mindless, sexless, free-speech hating hypocrites. I'm sorry, but even if that wasn't your intent you come of as incredibly hostile there. You then follow those generalizations to a rather silly conclusion that complaining about sexism in games means that escapist forumers should agree with Iran, which doesn't make much logical sense. The attitudes prevalent here about women in games are that women are too often made to be specifically sexy to the point of removing agency from them, while the attitudes in Iran are that women should not be present in videogames. The ban wasn't originally only characters who were sexy, but ALL (with the exception of the little girl character) female characters, including the goddamned phoenix. In fact, anyone who chooses to play as Annie must set their volume as low as they can to avoid hearing her voice. Kinda different from the attitudes here.Belated said:
Also, It's slightly annoying whenever anyone calls someone out for not understanding free speech. I think that was uncalled for, since I haven't actually heard anyone here calling for the outright banning of sexy characters. (I'm sure there's one or two people but everyone agrees they're crazy and if you try using them as an example of anything it will just make any other points you have seem invalid.) What I have heard is people saying that they don't like the prevalence of sexiness in female video game characters, that they think the way women are represented in games is highly offensive, and that they'd like it if more normal or badass female characters could be created without needing to be sexy. That's perfectly appropriate, and the request for less hypersexualized women isn't an attempt at censorship or a shot at free speech. In fact it's a great exercise of free speech, saying that this is something they don't like and requesting that it stop. It's not an attempt at censorship to ask someone to change how they do something because it makes people feel uncomfortable and spreads negative stereotypes.
Now that all that's out of the way, I just wanna say that I both agree and disagree with your points about sexuality in LoL.
Firstly, yes, sexuality in and of itself is a great thing. There should definitely be a place for sexy skins in games like LoL. I find battlebunny Riven to be completely hilarious, I think Foxfire Ahri is totally hot (ba-dum-crash), and I firmly believe that every character in the game should have at least one skin with no point other than fan-service. That said, I have some problems with LoL's female character design.
One, a majority of the female character's skins are sexualized (the default skins included) while the same cannot be said about the male skins. Sure, some of the male skins are pretty goddamned smexy (classic lee-sin :3 and basically any TF skin) but even then most of the time the sexiness seems incidental rather than intended (which I honestly think is a pretty big wasted opportunity on riot's part). This is clearly sexism in the game design. Please note that I'm not trying to call out riot or crucify them for being bad people, just pointing out that they obviously have been treating the designs for female champs different from the design for male champs.
Two, the 'make females sexy' taking a skin that really should have it's own theme and turning it into a stripper skin. The two most egregious ones I can think of are Cait's cowgirl and cop skins (and yes, they are both not only skimpy, but also something that it literally looks like a stripper would wear). Because these skins exist I can't actually get a serious western or police skin for Cait, which is really too bad because I'd really like it if those existed. Sexy skins are fine on their own, but when they start replacing content that I really feel deserves to exist by itself then I start getting a little ticked off. Yeah, sexuality is great, attractive sexy characters can be awesome, but it annoys me that that police officer stripper outfit has replaced what could have been a legitimately awesome skin when there are websites I can go to and type in "police officer" and get MUCH more in the way of skin, if you know what I mean. (Disclaimer, I personally don't find either of the skins I mentioned here sexy. Just personal preference, but the exaggerated skimpiness is something of a turn off for me. If the skins had been more realistic with maybe some cleavage showing (like that teacher skin for Fiora) then I'd probably find them pretty sexy, but even then I feel that both these skin ideas could have been totally serious and badass by themselves.)
Three, and finally when it comes to league of legends, I don't like when characters are dressed inappropriately. What I mean by that isn't "OMG you can see bewb!" but that they're dressed in a way that doesn't make sense given the situation that they're in. This is like Sejuani before the rework, or how Cait doesn't have any shoulder pads despite firing off that huge ass gun so often, or any of that characters wearing armor that exposes their midrift, cleavage, or armpits. Also, any combat themed champion who wears heels. Ironically enough, my being a stickler for character designs actually making sense for the character is also what leads me to defend most of the sexy skins. Pool party Leona should be wearing a swimsuit because she's at the pool. Ahri's skins should be sexy because that's the whole focal point of her character. Sadly, while there are some great, theme fitting sexy designs in LoL, loads of the designs just make no sense. This is particularly troubling to me as an armor enthusiast, because forget boob-plate being unrealistic! You wouldn't see any warrior running off to battle wearing a breastplate that didn't cover their midrift unless they were planning on throwing something large quite often. Draven is a great example of a character whose armor was perfectly designed to suit his fighting style, even though the splash art doesn't really show this and you have to go look at his character model up close to see it. They spent so much effort making sure his armor made sense, even going to the trouble of showing how it allowed his shoulders the freedom of movement needed to catch his axes and still stay on him at the same time. And yet for some reason we have female characters with clothing that makes no fucking sense like that weird leather bra thing MF wears (what is it?), or Irelia exposing her armpits because they wanted to clear the area around her cleavage, or how tempest Janna's breastplate ISN'T EVEN ATTACHED TO HER in her splash art (seriously, it's even attached to her in the game, just not on the splash page)! [/close rant about stuff nobody cares about]
Long story short (minus the rant about armor which was more just me going off on a tangent), I think that sexiness in videogames is fine and if I ever made a video game I would totally put fan-service in there. That said LoL does have sexist character art design, despite it actually being one of the best games out there when it comes to it's female characters being independent badasses. It focuses on making it's females attractive sexy first and badass second while it does the opposite on the males, and while almost every single woman in the game has at least one skin solely designed to be sexy there is only a single fan-service skin available for any of the male characters (Varus's default). YES, there ARE attractive men in this game, and there ARE shirtless men in this game. However until we get sexy firefighter Graves and hotpants Ezreal we really won't be able to say that this game has sexy men IN THE SAME WAY it has sexy women. Sexy skins also start becoming a problem when they start replacing regular skins because while they make a great novelty item and I think every character (and I mean EVERY character) should have one at least as a joke, they have their place, and that place should not be as the default skin style for female characters. Finally there's an inconsistency when it comes to clothing design between men and women in LoL because with male champs they often get detailed enough with making sure the armor is good that it makes me all hot and bothered, but with the female champs they don't put the same sort of care into the practicality of the design, which bothers me because I'm pretty sure it's possible to make sexy characters and still have them wear reasonable armor for whatever they're doing.
So yeah...
I type a lot, get off topic easily, and am a little too interested in armor.
Why don't they just put all of the female characters in traditional muslim attire? You know, to destroy their sense of identity just like in the real world. It'll be like LoL crossed with Pacman.
A few lines in tells me that you didn't actually read my posts, you skimmed them at best. So I'm going to pay you the respect you paid me by only skimming your post, which you should have no problem with. You think I'm hostile? I'll show you hostile:Mister Chippy said:
-No, I didn't call out the "majority" of escapists as free-speech haters. I called out a minority. A large minority, but a minority nonetheless. My exact words were "A lot". "A lot" is not "most", nor is it "all". "A lot" is many. Less than 50%, but more than 10%. And it sure as hell isn't a "majority", so right of the bat you're angry at me for something I factually didn't say.
-Yes, there ARE in fact "a lot" of people on this site who don't understand the importance of free speech and really do, legitimately want to BAN sexy characters. I met them when I defended Dead or Alive, I met them when I defended Dragons Crown, I met them when I defended Senran Kagura. People who legitimately feel that sexuality is inherently bad and so is fantasizing. They're not the majority, but they're a very large minority on here.
-It's bad enough you only skimmed my posts before criticizing me, but now it seems you also skimmed the news post itself. The attitudes in Iran are not that women should not be present in games. The attitudes of Iran are that the women aren't covered enough. And it is that attitude that I am comparing with a sizable minority of escapists. Yes it's true that all women were banned at first, but they're considering a few better-dressed ones.
-I find it ironic that you should come to me with such hostility when you criticize me for my hostility.
That's it. I'm not looking at the rest of your post because if the opening few parts are any evidence, the rest of it is probably made up of arguments against things I never said, and things that are factually inaccurate. I'll re-read your opinion on what I said, when your opinion is based on things I actually said. But until then, don't insult my intelligence by criticizing arguments I didn't make and missing the overarching point of what it is I'm saying. Plus, it's too goddamn long.
Nothing. Never said there was anything wrong with that. The argument I am making is that there is a witch hunt going on against any amount of skin showing on any one female character in any game whatsoever. That if you made a game with say, 10 well-dressed strong female characters, and one strong female character with her thighs showing, that game would be controversial because of those thighs. Or rather, it wouldn't be controversial, but then Kotaku would start a controversy about it, and The Escapist would follow suit, and then it would be controversial. I acknowledge that there's too much sexuality, and I'm all for toning it down. But what I'm not for is eliminating it, and there are people on this site who are totally for that.Shamanic Rhythm said:
Annnddd we have a straw man! "Arguing against sexism in games makes us similar to those who want to censor women entirely!", which has got to be the silliest counterargument in the history of this topic. I have never seen anyone advocate the removal of sex or sexual women from gaming, I'd just like it if sexuality wasn't the only defining factor about that character.Belated said:
Again, no. You're wrong. Characters like Lara Croft (Before the reboot), Rayne from Bloodrayne and most female fighting characters (Note the most.) are horribly written and often sport over the top skimpy outfits that are impracticable given the scenario for no gameplay reason and are often poorly written. No one would mind the skimpy outfits if they actually served a purpose or if the character's story was actually worth following. Its what sets characters like Samara and Morrigan from Dragon Age from lazily crafted characters.Belated said:
No, I just don't like bad writing and believe that the gaming medium would be better off if we steered away from this character direction.Belated said:
There are quite a few sexy characters in League of Legends. Caitlyn for example, especially in her officer outfit. Miss Fortune, especially in her midriff-baring default outfit with tight pants. And Ashe's Woad outfit is particularly revealing. Just to name the ones that I use most frequently. So yes, given that League has sexy women, and given that a lot of Escapists seem to be against any kind of sexiness in video games, it would therefore follow that a lot of Escapists agree with Iran. So I reiterate: How does that feel?[/quote]
Execpt most of those outfits serve a gameplay purpose. Riot has gone on the record to point out that most female characters in League are oversexualized in order to create distinctive features that allows them to be instantly recognized. There are a few exceptions to this, where the sexuality exists in lore (As is the case with Eve and Ahri), but a large portion of the League pool that was banned are also share masculine traits, like Poppy, Sejuani, Leona, Vi, Kayle (Who is often mistaken for a guy), Akali, Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Vayne, Riven, Quinn, Tristana and Lux. And then there are the few other champs who preform more of a priestess/prophecy role, like Soraka, Karma and Nami and then there is Orianna. So to recap, yes, LoL has oversexualized champions, but their designs serve a gameplay function and even then, they are heavily outnumbered by the non-sexualized characters.
So how does it feel to have to argue against a weak strawman argument? Well, I feel rather silly having to actually explain this at all.
Maybe they didn't consider her to be a female character. Ouch! Otherwise, I agree; if she gets away with it, why the hell does Kayle, a completely armored character with NO skin revealed, get the boot?Gizen said:
If this isn't a mistake on the article author's part, then it just goes to show how retarded the people enforcing these rules are.
My first reaction upon reading the article "Why are they hosting a tournament in Iran?" No seriously, wouldn't it be easier to say "Screw it guys, new country." What is necessary about them doing it in Iran that they can't have the tournament in any other nearby nation?
Because if someone was told they can't play in a torunament with their favorite character, they won't enter...and that seems like a lot of characters aren't included in the play roster.
Does it need to be physical? Can't they host it from online?
Because if someone was told they can't play in a torunament with their favorite character, they won't enter...and that seems like a lot of characters aren't included in the play roster.
Does it need to be physical? Can't they host it from online?
No more horribly written or one-dimensional than their male counterparts from the same era. And males in skimpy and impractical outfits aren't rare either.maddawg IAJI said:
Sure, we care more about naked females than naked males, but... I do have to say, I suspect the Iranian guys aren't sitting around going "We gotta restrict women more!"; I suspect they're saying much the same as that vocal minority of Escapists, "The sexualisation of our women is too much! It dehumanises them!", which is where Belated's point comes from. I understand their response goes further than yours, but I believe the impulse is much the same: "We gotta protect women from bad (read: sexy) portrayals of their gender!"
I'm glad you're okey with sexiness being used to make aesthetically distinct characters, as part of a diverse roster. Me and Belated too!
Hey, hey. Why not read a little more charitably? I mean, if you think someone is arguing something patently ridiculous, then that probably isn't what they're arguing. In which case, honest questions might get better results than accusations.