Legal Hurdles Foil Mass Effect 3 "Space Edition" Lottery - UPDATED

subtlefuge

Lord Cromulent
May 21, 2010
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I could also see how EA would not be thrilled by people using the proceeds to start a competing company. Even though they would likely only raise enough to make a single extremely small indie game, the idea of taking a free prize and selling it at an outrageous markup to form a company seems in really fucking bad faith. All of this is even coming from someone who hates EA.

Play it really quick and raffle off the used copy for charity.

Edit: I realized this comes off as harsh, and I don't mean it quite that way. Wanting to start a game company is a noble enough goal, as is charity. Also getting the funding is difficult, but it's likely not going to happen in the form of falling out of the sky.
 

Robert Ewing

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Mar 2, 2011
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Yet another point to add to the eternal ever expanding list of sources that the government is in fact destroying 100% of all harmless fun.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Sep 15, 2010
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Mike Droz said:
We've also reached out to EA [http://www.ea.com/] to assure them we have zero future intentions of profiting from their competition in any way, and that will will not be transferring/gifting/giving/providing this copy of the game to any other party due to the unfortunate massive legalities.
Wait, you aren't even allowed to sell the game on E-Bay and then donate part of the proceeds to Child's Play?

I thought half the point of the space edition was that people would be selling the games on E-Bay for thousands of dollars.

Well... that sucks. That realy, really sucks. Sorry to hear about this. I thought your idea to raise money and help Child's Play was a pretty good one.
 

SL33TBL1ND

Elite Member
Nov 9, 2008
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Why the fuck is this even illegal? They found it, they should be able to do what they want with it.
 

crimsonshrouds

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Mar 23, 2009
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Don't you love bureaucratic nightmares?

I sure do and this world sure is getting their. Im just waiting for the law stating that if your shoe isn't tied properly that you will be fined/jailed. You know so that we are protected from the accidents that could occur.

"I would say that our Bureaucrats are no better than vipers but I shouldn't insult the vipers."
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Running a raffle is a game of chance, and if the people doing it profit from it they themselves have a vested state in the outcome, running it as a business. Not to mention the issue of taxes, an unrecorded raffle could take in any amount of money, and Uncle Sam wants to make sure he gets his cut.

I worked Casino Security, but it was down here in Connecticut, for the Indian Casinos (which are two of the three largest in the world... #1 and #3 respectively, or they were when I worked there), I'm no expert on Nevada gaming policy, but I have some familiarity with it because a lot of people hired to set policies and procedures and help run things, especially early on when Mohegan Sun Opened, were veterans of Nevada or Atlantic City Casinos.

Any kind of gambling usually has to be overseen by a gaming comission when it's for profit, to make sure it's kosher, and also to make sure it's properly recorded for tax purposes and so on. Things were a little differant because while the Indians didn't pay taxes in a traditional sense, their negotiations with the state over zoning and such lead to them giving the State Of Connecticut a cut of the profits, so of course The State had people there to keep an eye on things. It could get really complicated where you had Tribal Comissioners watching for the Tribe, State guys watching for the state, and Security who are the representitives of the Casino itself (which is in part financed by non-tribal entities and it's own entity which the Tribe holds ownership of along with the people they borrowed money from for construction). Nevada is apparently less complicated due to less players, but has a similar situation where there are people who want to have their eyes on any kind of gambling taking place.

Raffles conducted entirely for charity tend to be a bit differant, because the person holding the raffle has no direct financial stake in it, since none of the proceeds go to them. Depending on where you are, there can still be requirements you annouce what your doing ahead of time though and get it approved, I don't know how this works in Nevada.

With something like this the big thing they are probably worried about is that the lottery will be a scam. Imagine a situation where in a totally unregulated lottery run for the profit of the people holding it, the item being put up is arranged to be "won" by a friend of theirs who just gives it back to them. After all with all the power in their hands, who is going to verify the validity of the random draw. They arrange for the shill to win, take the money of all the people who paid for a change, and then have a ton of money for nothing except for some time. Whether a percentage goes to charity in a situation like that is irrelevent.

With raffles and lotteries for charity, there is also the technicality that the money being bet is actually being donated as the primary purpose. The prize is just an incentive to donate as opposed to the purpose (allegedly). Thus there are less requirements to watch it because techically it shouldn't matter if the people running the raffle wind up keeping the item... In practice it would upset people, but the technicality inherant in the alleged intention creates differant standards.

I'm no expert, but have learned a little about this stuff. To be honest I'm kind of surprised they got nailed though, they must have done quite the advertising blitz to wind
up on the radar. Part of me wonders if they actually planned to run this as a scam and got ratted out, causing the authorities to take more notice than they otherwise would have. Especially seeing as these guys apparently saw that video game disc as being enough of a meal ticket to presumably fund a company, and that intention, especially with 33% going to charity, seems ambitious for what they actually had. I mean it's cool, but it's not THAT cool. If they were careful though I could see them doing something like using a shill to sell it multiple times, and maybe come up with money somewhere around the level they were expecting... but that would take a lot of luck.

This also raises another interesting question... do these discs have any identifying marks on them that proves what they are? When the game is released on the 6th is there any way to tell the "Space Edition" from say a regular copy that didn't get sent up on a balloon? I might have missed that if there was. If there isn't, I'm not sure if this has much value at all as a collectible because it won't be long before it becomes impossible to prove what it actually is.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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i think it wasnt as much as a need for rafle as it was kickstarting a new company. somone didnt like competition.
 

RUINER ACTUAL

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Oct 29, 2009
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Thinking about what they wanted to do, it only seems illegal because the state isn't controlling it. WTF do you think a state lottery is!?! Exactly what they wanted to do! But god forbid people want a LITTLE personal gain to do something.
 

direkiller

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Dec 4, 2008
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Qitz said:
That'll teach those greedy bastards to try and do something nice like donate some money to a charity!

Also, stuff is illegal in Nevada? Bwaaah?
yea in a state where gambling and whore houses are legal you think a raffle should be fine. But i guess the state has to get its money from this somehow.
 

Zen Toombs

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Nov 7, 2011
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SL33TBL1ND said:
Why the fuck is this even illegal? They found it, they should be able to do what they want with it.

Seriously though, it makes me kindof sad that this sort of thing is illegal. Yes, they should pay taxes on the proceeds like the rest of us, but they shouldn't be penalized for what they wanted to do. Especially seeing as the two obviously didn't realize that they were doing something wrong.
 

Keava

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Mar 1, 2010
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Snotnarok said:
This is pretty funny since Charities can take up to like 60% of the profits they raised for whatever they want, but I guess what they're doing is terrible too.
For operating costs. Usually within what is stated in their status. Sure You can bend some of the points there to buy a new plasma TV but usually it get's picked up on rather fast.

The thing was they wanted to do a raffle, which is essentially gambling. Without any form of legal backing behind it could get ugly fast. First, all You have is their word that They will donate the money to charity. Second, lacking the regulations, You can't be sure if the winner of such raffle is legit or not just friend of the guys, which may expose them to lawsuits from people who pay for the ticket. Third, since they don't run non-profit/charity organization, it's hardly charity raffle when You take 66% of the money for personal gain.
If tell people to give me 1 million dollars and promise to send 300k to charity, is it really charity ?

They had good idea generally, but poor execution and They should be thankful someone warned them because otherwise They could get into more trouble than it's worth.
 

Rainboq

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Nov 19, 2009
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Mike Droz said:
-snip snip-
Hey, no worries, I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that you pretty much had nothing but good intentions with this. Plus you refunded the money, so I doubt any charges will be pressed.
 

Zom-B

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Feb 8, 2011
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Rainboq said:
Mike Droz said:
-snip snip-
Hey, no worries, I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that you pretty much had nothing but good intentions with this. Plus you refunded the money, so I doubt any charges will be pressed.
You're basing that on... ?

Maybe they had good intentions donating part of the money raised to a charity, but they were still attempting to cash in on the ME3 hype machine.

Had their intentions been as noble as everyone thinks, they would have given all profits to charity and hoped that the good word of mouth and their selfless actions would result in a great starting point for raising capital.

Instead, to over-excited guys thought they could make a quick buck and pulled a bonehead move.
 

Rainboq

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2009
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Zom-B said:
Rainboq said:
Mike Droz said:
-snip snip-
Hey, no worries, I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that you pretty much had nothing but good intentions with this. Plus you refunded the money, so I doubt any charges will be pressed.
You're basing that on... ?

Maybe they had good intentions donating part of the money raised to a charity, but they were still attempting to cash in on the ME3 hype machine.

Had their intentions been as noble as everyone thinks, they would have given all profits to charity and hoped that the good word of mouth and their selfless actions would result in a great starting point for raising capital.

Instead, to over-excited guys thought they could make a quick buck and pulled a bonehead move.
Its baseless, but I doubt that charges would be pressed if they didn't actually go through with it. As well, donating ANY of the portions is a fairly noble gesture.
 

Sewer Rat

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Sep 14, 2008
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Really?... So, it's perfectly fine if they went onto ebay and sold the damn thing and kept all the profit for themselves. BUT it is illegal to run an event promising to give money to GODDAMN CHARITY, and to help fund a new project which can potentially create new jobs? Excuse me for a second, I'm off to go bash my head against a wall.