Lenovo, Dell, Asus Are Making $300 Windows 10 VR Headsets

[loa]

old OSs not being able to use new stuff

Yes because that's totally not artificially fabricated obsolescence made by microsoft, it's totes an insurmountable technical limitation, guys.
Because people creating compatibility patches that magically make the "exclusive" thing work on older oses never happens.
Fo reals, yo.

 

[Xorph]

old OSs not being able to use new stuff

Yes because that's totally not artificially fabricated obsolescence made by microsoft, it's totes an insurmountable technical limitation, guys.
Because people creating compatibility patches that magically make the "exclusive" thing work on older oses never happens.
Fo reals, yo.

Yes, because it totally isn't that the internal structure of OSs changes immensely over time, or that the drivers and such necessary for using a given product need to be hand-tailored to function properly -per OS-, which is a very time consuming task, or that old OSs simply don't have the capability to use functions needed by newer programs (good luck getting a UWP file to run on windows 7!) and that getting those functionalities added would be tantamount to just upgrading to the newer OS without changing the name. Please, go boot up your old Windows XP rig and try making a compatibility patch for Fallout 4, lemme know how it goes.

Just because modders can spend a few months finding workarounds and loopholes that just barely manage to get a particular program or two working on old software (something i'd love for you to provide an example of, by the by) doesn't magically mean everything is secretly compatible with everything, that shit takes a lot of effort, and quite frankly, as said, Microsoft is under zero obligation whatsoever to put that level of effort into updating/making compatible versions for 4-7 year old, unsupported software that already has a new version available.

Plus, this isn't even bringing mention to the fact that this is a combined piece of software -and- hardware. So again, go take your brand new Nvidia or AMD card and plug it into your WinXP's PCIe port, and then lemme know how things turn out for you when it comes time to install display drivers.

 

[Callate]

My cynical side is waiting for the announcement that all software for the new hardware platform will have to come in UWP format...

With how stuff like Quantum Break and We Happy Few have received steam releases my hopeful side in turn wants to think that Microsoft have at least somewhat come to terms with the fact that everyone hates their file format, though your cynic's prediction certainly wouldn't come as a surprise in the end.

I'd noticed that Quantum Break had come to Steam. Hadn't heard WHF was ever considered for non-release in that format (a bit odd, given the Kickstarter backing, but there you go, I guess.) I've been surprised that I haven't heard more about this in the various tech news sites; you would think signs of weakness in UWP would get some press.

But Microsoft has rarely ignored chances to try to leverage position in one field to strengthen another- web browsers, online stores, office software, DirectX, what have you. The best hope for preventing them trying it in VR is that the field is already cluttered with contenders, and that its partners on the project probably wouldn't be thrilled with Microsoft trying to piggyback anything that might cost the project customers.

Still, never underestimate the power of a low bidder with deep advertising pockets- or the willingness of the sheep to shear itself if it thinks it's getting a good deal.

 

[Saulkar]

snip

Given the nature of Windows 10 as a data collection for profit tool, alluding to the old adage that if a product is free then you are the product, this is likely another means to drive more people to switch to W10 to increase its less than 25% market share by riding off the novelty based hype that VR is currently riding. Windows 7 currently has a nearly 50% market share so not ensuring comparability with it at its current stage in life is nonsense as that is where some of the largest consumer base is. It is not unreasonable to assume that a company eventually wants to drop support for a product or service eventually as both the market share shrinks and features of a product become depreciated in the common environment but know what little I do of the architectural differences between windows 7 and 10 (and some, some are big) I cannot imagine a legitimate technical reason for the MS Headset to be incompatible with Windows 7 or 8/8.1 outside of moving copies of W10.

You saw this back with Windows Vista's early days with a couple of companies close to Microsoft arbitrarily excluding DX9 support, Halo 2 and that Cyberpunk fantasy game I cannot remember the name of off the top of my head come immediately to mind; while the vast majority of games supported DX9 for at least a couple years afterwards and most hardware continued this trend for years afterwards. Hell, your comments about plugging a modern GPU into a Windows XP machine? A cursory glance at NVIDIA's website shows support for XP as late as August last year all the way up to the 700 series. Not exactly modern but still more than a decade of support for the OS. So unless the is a technical limitation on how many calls per second the headset can address with DX11 I cannot imagine that developing support for older O.S.'s to be that much of a burden given the massive company's resources.

P.S. I sorta let slide DX distributions as my uncle who created his own personal Linux distro and runs a private call center for enterprise windows support, explained in a technical way above my head how there where indeed performance and stability drawbacks to getting DX10 to run on XP back in the day. To this day, frequently making deep changes to the latest Windows version without going so far as to reverse engineer anything, he knows his shit. If he cannot find a technical reason why this hardware and/or drivers cannot be made for W7-8.1 (the former being the largest market share by more than a factor of 2) then I am going to call it as I see it. Them simply not wanting to do it and ignoring the current market share at best and pushing W10 adoption at worst.

EDIT: I just thought of something. I mentioned that it is a for profit machine-changed-to-tool-for-reasons-of-connotations-attached-to-the-former with the dubious implications that this was its purpose for the layman. I wonder if enterprise and server versions of Windows were offered the free upgrade and whether or not they have said data collection. Especially given how that relates to content such as patents being produced on said machines-likely-a-workstation. Why would a company use such an O.S. if this was a factor and thus I am going to have to say no but I may be wrong in some respects. Sigh, if only there was a way for me to quickly search for the answer online...

Spoiler: OH WAIT!

Spoiler: STARTPAGE!!!

I bet you thought I was going to say google XD

EDIT: I spent a few minutes looking around and it appears that even the Enterprise version of W10 spies on you. Even after running several applications that attempt to turn off said processes the PC still actively attempts to send information to Microsoft I.P. addresses. I am going to have to do more research on this and find out if and/or how much this is blown out of proportion.

 

[Xorph]

snip

snep

Granted, can't you turn most if not all of the spying crap off? I know that I've turned off something near 10 different things related to it, no idea if there's much more there, but I feel like anything that is would just be spec/diagnostic stuff.

Personally, I've always felt people do blow W10's data gathering completely out of proportion simply because the option is right there to turn it off (not that they get any brownie points for that mind you, it's still shitty that the stuff is there to begin with), but do post about what you find out.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Modding it to work with Linux would certainly make a lot of people happy but why'd they bother making it work with W7/W8 is beyond me. They're only going to become more and more obsolete as time goes on and the people who say they're going to stick with them and never update to Win 10, gamers especially, are either delusional or masochists.

Well, a disturbing (for Microsoft) trend has emerged since Win 10 ceased being free.

Win 10 uptake has fallen through the floor, whilst Win 7 usage has been increasing. It's only small percentages, but that it's happening at all should be of concern to Microsoft. On a similar note I'm in the process of buying a bunch of workstations and every company I've spoken to has proudly told me that I can have Windows 7 as an OE option, it seems to be a huge selling point to businesses.

The biggest concern to me is Win 10's uncontrollable update system. The data mining thing is creepy as all Hell but having update packages applied to my system and backup systems without my being able to test them for stability is a complete deal breaker. Past Windows updates have caused stability and compatibility issues on a regular basis and I don't see that changing in 10.

Another issue is Microsoft's erecting of paywalls and advertising spaces within the Operating System, I've yet to hear someone with a positive opinion of that.

Microsoft seems to be repeating the Win Vista/8 cycle, what it's released with 10 doesn't actually address the needs or wants of the consumer (home or business) so much as it tries to fulfill Microsoft's vision of how people should be using their computers (to give Microsoft money and data to sell).

They're trying to force the issue with non-compatible products, but as with Vista and 8 it's not a big enough draw. Those who don't know aren't interested in VR or first party games, they want to know why the features present in 8/7/Vista/XP now cost extra. Those who do know are too put off by Win 10's glaring flaws to touch it when alternatives already exist.

 

[fix-the-spade]

So again, go take your brand new Nvidia or AMD card and plug it into your WinXP's PCIe port, and then lemme know how things turn out for you when it comes time to install display drivers.

Nvidia released official XP drivers for the 9XX and Titan series cards, the 10XX cards are the first cards that Nvidia has released in fifteen years that won't support XP. AMD's latest cards can also be used with XP via the Crimson driver package.

So, it's entirely possible actually, a lot of nineties and noughties games run best on XP installs, even if the machine running them has enough power to run ten instances at once without even spinning the fans.

 

[Saulkar]

snip

snep

Granted, can't you turn most if not all of the spying crap off? I know that I've turned off something near 10 different things related to it, no idea if there's much more there, but I feel like anything that is would just be spec/diagnostic stuff.

Personally, I've always felt people do blow W10's data gathering completely out of proportion simply because the option is right there to turn it off (not that they get any brownie points for that mind you, it's still shitty that the stuff is there to begin with), but do post about what you find out.

People with access to professional internet telemetry tools show that it still sends a significant chunk of data after all the supposed options MS gives you are turned off and can contact Microsoft anywhere from 100-5000+ times a day (Microsoft disputes these figures but additional research shows that this is actually quite common, even if not everyone is affected). It eats bandwidth just by being connected to the internet. Furthermore their TOS gives them a carte-blanc to collect any data they want, no exception. Knowing that and having created complex 3D models for a company to be used when submitting patents, the company would not dare let me use W10.

Even with some tools like Spybot Anti-Beacon which makes deep changes to the registry to turn off the data collection the computer will still send a continuous 15 kilobytes (or was it bits?) a second to a Microsoft I.P. and no one knows how to turn it off.

P.S. I am not sure why not but people really do not know all thing information Microsoft is collecting and they are ambiguous with their replies. That makes tech experts nervous.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

First off, Windows 10 isn't appealing to all, myself included, in regards to how it functions, how it looks, and what said people don't want on board that Microsoft shoves down the collective throats. So, keep your opinions about who's delusional to yourself. That much is a preference, and not for you to insult anyone over.

And secondly, I believe the 'firstly' explains why anyone would mod it for previous OS's.

Thirdly, we're just waiting for the next Not-Shit OS to be made. I, myself, didn't make this as a snap judgement. I did what any customer SHOULD be doing: Examining the product and seeing if it's what I want. If you're satisfied, that's your business. I have family with Windows 10 and their taskbar sometimes locks up and becomes inoperable. I got a dentist with it installed and she was having trouble calling up my X-rays. I went to an office and the clerks are having trouble printing because the computer's frozen up or laggy. Tell me this is a coincidence.

 

[Xorph]

So again, go take your brand new Nvidia or AMD card and plug it into your WinXP's PCIe port, and then lemme know how things turn out for you when it comes time to install display drivers.

Nvidia released official XP drivers for the 9XX and Titan series cards, the 10XX cards are the first cards that Nvidia has released in fifteen years that won't support XP. AMD's latest cards can also be used with XP via the Crimson driver package.

So, it's entirely possible actually, a lot of nineties and noughties games run best on XP installs, even if the machine running them has enough power to run ten instances at once without even spinning the fans.

Do bear in mind that I did say "brand new". Also, AMD's WinXP driver only supports up to the R9 200 series, which is actually two (three? is the Pro Duo a new line or just a side line like Titans/Furys?) card sets behind, so no, their latest cards most certainly don't have XP drivers.

 

[Xorph]

Snip

First off, Windows 10 isn't appealing to all, myself included, in regards to how it functions, how it looks, and what said people don't want on board that Microsoft shoves down the collective throats. So, keep your opinions about who's delusional to yourself. That much is a preference, and not for you to insult anyone over.

And secondly, I believe the 'firstly' explains why anyone would mod it for previous OS's.

Thirdly, we're just waiting for the next Not-Shit OS to be made. I, myself, didn't make this as a snap judgement. I did what any customer SHOULD be doing: Examining the product and seeing if it's what I want. If you're satisfied, that's your business. I have family with Windows 10 and their taskbar sometimes locks up and becomes inoperable. I got a dentist with it installed and she was having trouble calling up my X-rays. I went to an office and the clerks are having trouble printing because the computer's frozen up or laggy. Tell me this is a coincidence.

Regarding the thirdly-bits, hasn't Microsoft stated there won't -be- any new versions of Windows, that it's just 10 getting big updates going forward? That really only leaves Mac and Linux distros, one of which is ran by a company equally as shitty as MS (albeit in different ways), and the other generally requires a good deal more tech savvy than average and has a fraction of the application pool Win/Mac have.

Also yes, I'd absolutely call most of those coincidences especially since they seem to point towards completely different issues. On Win 7 my PC would have fairly regular bouts of freezing/lagging, and Win 10 happens to have made it far less frequent an occurrence. Given the lack of detail regarding the X-rays that could have been any number of issues, potentially even something as simple as the dentist forgetting what folder the files were saved to, especially considering that from my own experience it seems basically any situation of "business using a computer" will have examples of them having trouble at some point or another, my credit union has had computer problems nearly every other time I stop in and I've been using them for around 6 years.

I'll of course concede on the taskbar issue since that's both something I've had happen to myself and something even a quick look shows happens to a notable number of users.

Finally, I'm standing by my point that people who think they'll stay with Win7/8 till the end of time are only fooling themselves, or gluttons for the increasing hassle and decreasing software/hardware pool available to them as time goes on. However, I'll at least rectify that they'd certainly be free to swap to Mac/Linux/Some other OS in the freak event one ever pops up, my wording of "people who say they're going to stick with them and never update to Win 10" certainly wasn't the best in that regard and I'm sorry that that resulted in me calling a much larger group of people delusional than intended.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Oh sure, I believe that, just like I believe everything people tell me. Microsoft will never ever make a new system for as long as we live.

Or, alternatively, that will only go as far as the next guy in charge who says "You know what? Nah.". Business is like that, sometimes.

Anyway, you can make your opinions without deliberately trying to annoy people. If I don't see any reason to have Windows 10, that's it. Shouting at me isn't going to change that it failed to meet my standards. It's like telling me your AI is the greatest thing ever, but it failed the Turing Test and did not exhibit independent thought, and then it blue-screened. I can't take that as a good sign. This isn't because I want to grumble at it. It's because I can't ignore the flaws.

 

[Xorph]

snip

snep

snup

People with access to professional internet telemetry tools show that it still sends a significant chunk of data after all the supposed options MS gives you are turned off and can contact Microsoft anywhere from 100-5000+ times a day (Microsoft disputes these figures but additional research shows that this is actually quite common, even if not everyone is affected). It eats bandwidth just by being connected to the internet. Furthermore their TOS gives them a carte-blanc to collect any data they want, no exception. Knowing that and having created complex 3D models for a company to be used when submitting patents, the company would not dare let me use W10.

Even with some tools like Spybot Anti-Beacon which makes deep changes to the registry to turn off the data collection the computer will still send a continuous 15 kilobytes (or was it bits?) a second to a Microsoft I.P. and no one knows how to turn it off.

P.S. I am not sure why not but people really do not know all thing information Microsoft is collecting and they are ambiguous with their replies. That makes tech experts nervous.

If the information was anything of consequence it'd have to be bytes, 15kb is only about 1.8KB so if it -is- bits I'm betting it couldn't be anything more complex than communicating that X MS Account (since unless you use an offline account, logging into your PC is now also logging said MS account in) is logged into Y computer.

 

[Xorph]

Snip

Oh sure, I believe that, just like I believe everything people tell me. Microsoft will never ever make a new system for as long as we live.

Or, alternatively, that will only go as far as the next guy in charge who says "You know what? Nah.". Business is like that, sometimes.

Anyway, you can make your opinions without deliberately trying to annoy people. If I don't see any reason to have Windows 10, that's it. Shouting at me isn't going to change that it failed to meet my standards. It's like telling me your AI is the greatest thing ever, but it failed the Turing Test and did not exhibit independent thought, and then it blue-screened. I can't take that as a good sign. This isn't because I want to grumble at it. It's because I can't ignore the flaws.

Fair enough, though there was no deliberate attempt to be annoying, I just get peeved when I see profile-pic-less accounts making 4-word-long angryposts at news details they could've seen 1000 miles away, and that salt permeated into my followup responses for a lil bit.

 

[Saulkar]

If the information was anything of consequence it'd have to be bytes, 15kb is only about 1.8KB so if it -is- bits I'm betting it couldn't be anything more complex than communicating that X MS Account (since unless you use an offline account, logging into your PC is now also logging said MS account in) is logged into Y computer.

Who knows but am still really curious as to what it is and why people so much smarter than us cannot stop it without explicitly blocking all Microsoft I.P. addresses with a firewall.

 

[FalloutJack]

Fair enough, though there was no deliberate attempt to be annoying, I just get peeved when I see profile-pic-less accounts making 4-word-long angryposts at news details they could've seen 1000 miles away, and that salt permeated into my followup responses for a lil bit.

Huh, that's weird. Escapist ate the post I made.

*Shrugs*

I was just gonna say I kind of sympathize with the guy, though he could have expanded on his views, as I generally do.