Lessons learned from Persona 5: What did it do so right for the JRPG.

[The Wykydtron]

As someone who loves Persona 4 to death I do have to say that Persona 5 somehow manages to beat it. I was sceptical of the edgy themes going in but they managed to strike the perfect balance of dark themes without it going so far as to be ludicrous or overly depressing.

The characters are good but not as in-depth as Persona 4 for obvious reasons and for the first time in history, every girl is Based Girl. This fact alone elevates the game above all previous JRPGs, possibly above every video game which has ever featured female characters. Atus for the sake of my sanity, please lower your waifu quality for the next game.

Also Akira continues the trend of Persona MCs being swag as fuck. Thank god they're straying away from the typical blank slate protagonist and making an actual character. I think the Phantom Thieves as an entity doesn't get enough praise as the glue holding the game together. The Phantom Thieves is one of those rare organisations where if it was possible, i'd join the fuckin' Phantom Thieves. I think anyone would cuz the Phantom Thieves are fucking HYPE!

I don't need to talk about the gameplay, it's great and everyone has generally accepted as such.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

The characters are good but not as in-depth as Persona 4 for obvious reasons and for the first time in history, every girl is Based Girl.

Honestly, I found the male characters better written than the female. Sojiro especially. Mishima is literally the worst character in all 3 relevant games though.

 

[RaikuFA]

jRPGs were in a bad place?

first time I hear of this :O I played a lot of jRPGs I enjoyed last year... maybe I have low standards or something?

anyways yeah P5 was pretty good but I don't think it was the greatest thing ever. I still prefer P4 characters over P5 cast. As a game what P5 did right was modernization, it finally caught up with the times. abandoned random dungeons. and minimized dull days to the point that no time feels like wasted time. The story was pretty good too it kept you engaged... tbh I don't feel P5 did anything new, it just did the same things jRPGs have always done it just made sure to do them well.

It's mainly started with FF13 being extremely terrible. After that it was a battle to localize any games. Once Bravely Default hit the scene and made people realize JRPG's have an audience, more and more were localized. And Japan's been hitting it out of the park this year too.

 

[sageoftruth]

The characters are good but not as in-depth as Persona 4 for obvious reasons and for the first time in history, every girl is Based Girl.

Honestly, I found the male characters better written than the female. Sojiro especially. Mishima is literally the worst character in all 3 relevant games though.

Just curious, what does "Based Girl" mean? Is it a reference to a character from a certain game or show? I got nothing from Google.

 

[Dansen]

The characters are good but not as in-depth as Persona 4 for obvious reasons and for the first time in history, every girl is Based Girl.

Honestly, I found the male characters better written than the female. Sojiro especially. Mishima is literally the worst character in all 3 relevant games though.

Wat? Worse than the Grommet King? Mishima is great, he honestly should have been a member of the group considering all he does for you guys. I enjoyed his social link, he goes through a ton of personal growth with out you having to interfere with his life in Mementos. He's a solid character but for some reason the writers enjoy shitting on him and enjoy playing up his introversion to make him seem pathetic. I'll agree with you on Sojiro, he is probably the best character in the game and feels like a real person.

 

[Fappy]

The characters are good but not as in-depth as Persona 4 for obvious reasons and for the first time in history, every girl is Based Girl.

Honestly, I found the male characters better written than the female. Sojiro especially. Mishima is literally the worst character in all 3 relevant games though.

Wat? Worse than the Grommet King? Mishima is great, he honestly should have been a member of the group considering all he does for you guys. I enjoyed his social link, he goes through a ton of personal growth with out you having to interfere with his life in Mementos. He's a solid character but for some reason the writers enjoy shitting on him and enjoy playing up his introversion to make him seem pathetic. I'll agree with you on Sojiro, he is probably the best character in the game and feels like a real person.

Personally, favorite character status is tied between him and Futaba for me.

Together, they are an unstoppable duo of charm. Loved their interactions and relationship, especially when Sojiro gets teared up about her personal growth.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The reason why Futaba is the best char in this series is that we see her through Soujirou's story too. She basically has 1.5 the amount of events everyone else does. It's kinda like how Aigis is the best in p3 due to FES letting her shine more.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

jRPGs were in a bad place?

first time I hear of this :O I played a lot of jRPGs I enjoyed last year... maybe I have low standards or something?

anyways yeah P5 was pretty good but I don't think it was the greatest thing ever. I still prefer P4 characters over P5 cast. As a game what P5 did right was modernization, it finally caught up with the times. abandoned random dungeons. and minimized dull days to the point that no time feels like wasted time. The story was pretty good too it kept you engaged... tbh I don't feel P5 did anything new, it just did the same things jRPGs have always done it just made sure to do them well.

It's mainly started with FF13 being extremely terrible. After that it was a battle to localize any games. Once Bravely Default hit the scene and made people realize JRPG's have an audience, more and more were localized. And Japan's been hitting it out of the park this year too.

This, 2011 was thevlow point of JRPGs and localization efforts. The Lost Decade of Japanese Gaming

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

jRPGs were in a bad place?

first time I hear of this :O I played a lot of jRPGs I enjoyed last year... maybe I have low standards or something?

anyways yeah P5 was pretty good but I don't think it was the greatest thing ever. I still prefer P4 characters over P5 cast. As a game what P5 did right was modernization, it finally caught up with the times. abandoned random dungeons. and minimized dull days to the point that no time feels like wasted time. The story was pretty good too it kept you engaged... tbh I don't feel P5 did anything new, it just did the same things jRPGs have always done it just made sure to do them well.

It's mainly started with FF13 being extremely terrible. After that it was a battle to localize any games. Once Bravely Default hit the scene and made people realize JRPG's have an audience, more and more were localized. And Japan's been hitting it out of the park this year too.

This, 2011 was thevlow point of JRPGs and localization efforts. The Lost Decade of Japanese Gaming

That's nonsense. There's no such thing. In 2011 we had Ninokuni and Xenoblade Chronicles come out. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

After having played a bit more, one thing that Persona 5 does really well is a "Just as planned!" moment that would've made Tzeentch himself shed a single tear of joy at its audacity. Saying anything more about it will veer waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay into spoiler territory, but it's one of the best gaming moments I've had in the past decade.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

After having played a bit more, one thing that Persona 5 does really well is a "Just as planned!" moment that would've made Tzeentch himself shed a single tear of joy at its audacity. Saying anything more about it will veer waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay into spoiler territory, but it's one of the best gaming moments I've had in the past decade.

You're prolly talking about the conclusion of the interrogation (everyone knows about being interrogated since you start at that point so it's safe to talk about it in this way I think). Yeah, it was quite something, and really complex to explain to anyone who hasn't played the game lol.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

After having played a bit more, one thing that Persona 5 does really well is a "Just as planned!" moment that would've made Tzeentch himself shed a single tear of joy at its audacity. Saying anything more about it will veer waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay into spoiler territory, but it's one of the best gaming moments I've had in the past decade.

The only downside is that the games spends like an hour explaining it aferwards. Also, that REALLY awkward scene where the antagonists exposition dump their history with each other TO each other.

I generally don't care much about video game writing in terms of individual lines but holy shit that scene was awful.

 

[RaikuFA]

jRPGs were in a bad place?

first time I hear of this :O I played a lot of jRPGs I enjoyed last year... maybe I have low standards or something?

anyways yeah P5 was pretty good but I don't think it was the greatest thing ever. I still prefer P4 characters over P5 cast. As a game what P5 did right was modernization, it finally caught up with the times. abandoned random dungeons. and minimized dull days to the point that no time feels like wasted time. The story was pretty good too it kept you engaged... tbh I don't feel P5 did anything new, it just did the same things jRPGs have always done it just made sure to do them well.

It's mainly started with FF13 being extremely terrible. After that it was a battle to localize any games. Once Bravely Default hit the scene and made people realize JRPG's have an audience, more and more were localized. And Japan's been hitting it out of the park this year too.

This, 2011 was thevlow point of JRPGs and localization efforts. The Lost Decade of Japanese Gaming

That's nonsense. There's no such thing. In 2011 we had Ninokuni and Xenoblade Chronicles come out. Stop spreading misinformation.

But we had to fight to get Xenoblade localized.

 

[balladbird]

Just curious, what does "Based Girl" mean? Is it a reference to a character from a certain game or show? I got nothing from Google.

I'm assuming it was an autocorrect-borne error and he meant "best girl", a term that comes up often in waifu wars to describe... well... the best girl, in the eyes of the person saying it.

The reason why Futaba is the best char in this series is that we see her through Soujirou's story too. She basically has 1.5 the amount of events everyone else does. It's kinda like how Aigis is the best in p3 due to FES letting her shine more.

that does end up working in her favor as far as getting narrative exposure, but I'd hesitate to say that appearing in other people's social links is a good thing by default. I recall losing patience with Nanako in P4 due to the game's insistence that she be given a cameo in EVERY party member's s-link. XD

It's, like, "I get it, game, she's the surrogate little sister character. I had an actual little sister, so I know better than to fall for it!"

jRPGs were in a bad place?

JRPGs were in the same place that Survival Horror and non-sandbox games are in. That is to say, The AAA industry decided they were dead with zero evidence to support their theory, and then acted flabbergasted whenever a game of that type succeeds, even when the company being surprised is supposedly known for making that type of game in the first place.

See SE's reaction to the success of Bravely Default for an illustration of the mindset.

 

[RaikuFA]

Just curious, what does "Based Girl" mean? Is it a reference to a character from a certain game or show? I got nothing from Google.

I'm assuming it was an autocorrect-borne error and he meant "best girl", a term that comes up often in waifu wars to describe... well... the best girl, in the eyes of the person saying it.

The reason why Futaba is the best char in this series is that we see her through Soujirou's story too. She basically has 1.5 the amount of events everyone else does. It's kinda like how Aigis is the best in p3 due to FES letting her shine more.

that does end up working in her favor as far as getting narrative exposure, but I'd hesitate to say that appearing in other people's social links is a good thing by default. I recall losing patience with Nanako in P4 due to the game's insistence that she be given a cameo in EVERY party member's s-link. XD

It's, like, "I get it, game, she's the surrogate little sister character. I had an actual little sister, so I know better than to fall for it!"

jRPGs were in a bad place?

JRPGs were in the same place that Survival Horror and non-sandbox games are in. That is to say, The AAA industry decided they were dead with zero evidence to support their theory, and then acted flabbergasted whenever a game of that type succeeds, even when the company being surprised is supposedly known for making that type of game in the first place.

See SE's reaction to the success of Bravely Default for an illustration of the mindset.

First off, I didn't have a little sister, so I can't relate. Though my cousions daughter calls me big brother now.

Second, while SE did do that, they went back on their word five minutes later with the Dragon Quest games for the 3DS, making Nintendo foot the bill.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Just curious, what does "Based Girl" mean? Is it a reference to a character from a certain game or show? I got nothing from Google.

I'm assuming it was an autocorrect-borne error and he meant "best girl", a term that comes up often in waifu wars to describe... well... the best girl, in the eyes of the person saying it.

The reason why Futaba is the best char in this series is that we see her through Soujirou's story too. She basically has 1.5 the amount of events everyone else does. It's kinda like how Aigis is the best in p3 due to FES letting her shine more.

that does end up working in her favor as far as getting narrative exposure, but I'd hesitate to say that appearing in other people's social links is a good thing by default. I recall losing patience with Nanako in P4 due to the game's insistence that she be given a cameo in EVERY party member's s-link. XD

It's, like, "I get it, game, she's the surrogate little sister character. I had an actual little sister, so I know better than to fall for it!"

jRPGs were in a bad place?

JRPGs were in the same place that Survival Horror and non-sandbox games are in. That is to say, The AAA industry decided they were dead with zero evidence to support their theory, and then acted flabbergasted whenever a game of that type succeeds, even when the company being surprised is supposedly known for making that type of game in the first place.

See SE's reaction to the success of Bravely Default for an illustration of the mindset.

Based is not a typo for best, it means that you are in possession of solid foundation (a base) and have your head on straight basically. It's quite high praise.



And, I dunno, I loved Nanako. It's likely due to me being an only child. In Japan fewer people have siblings so the idealized sibling relationship we see stems from people not actually having had a sibling ever and thinking dreamy thoughts about it. In my experience, actual siblings tend to be closer to mortal enemies than anything else, at least while growing up.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

While vast stretches of the gaming industry in the West are currently playing politics and are somewhat busy playing the big fish - little fish game, Japanese companies and artists seem to hail from much greener pastures.

They are free and inspired to do the things as they want, creating interactive art that entertains and inspires. We in the West are still stuck in cookie cutter FPS clones that are so busy with checking all sorts of nonsensical boxes. Deadlines will have to be met, art will be retouched, titties will be covered, souls will be crushed. We're in a bit of a bad place right now. But, hey-ho, you can totally romance the horned cloven-hoofed bear demon, he's such a cuddly little thing. Yay.

 

[sageoftruth]

Just curious, what does "Based Girl" mean? Is it a reference to a character from a certain game or show? I got nothing from Google.

I'm assuming it was an autocorrect-borne error and he meant "best girl", a term that comes up often in waifu wars to describe... well... the best girl, in the eyes of the person saying it.

Well, I won't argue there. They seem to get hotter with each sequel, and some of the shadows'/personas' polished new looks are nothing to scoff at either. It gives new meaning to having a real sexy personality.

 

[sageoftruth]

Based is not a typo for best, it means that you are in possession of solid foundation (a base) and have your head on straight basically. It's quite high praise.

I won't argue with that either. It seems to come with the territory when it comes to awakening to your persona, especially in 5.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Having finally finished the game (3 straight weeks of doing almost nothing but persona 5, at 128 hours give or take some grinding and leaving it on in the background) I can finally safely enter these threads without fear of spoilers.

Turn based combat isn't dead, but it's important that you structure it correctly. A brainless affair where you just pick the "attack" command each turn quickly gets tedious. Best to structure your combat like a sort of puzzle game, where discovering the ideal sequence of moves is the point of the fight.

This. A million times this.

I'm shocked that this is a revelation to some people. Making turn based combat feel like cracking a puzzle to "break" a combat encounter is one of the best ways to make it engaging. It's philosophy that I apply to my own hobby RPG projects and it works. It gives you that satisfying "AHA!" moment, as well as leading that into cathartic-ally smashing the enemy's face into the ground.

It's a natural fit, as the turn based nature of the genre gives the player plenty of time to think of a proper strategy, while also (if programmed right) moving at a swift pace for people who have already "solved" the encounter.

--

Honestly, I was surprised by how much I loved the game. I knew I would enjoy it, since I liked 4 a lot, but it improved in so many key ways.

The combat system was simultaneously stylish, deep (the extra damage types and additional moves helped a lot), and balanced extremely well. I really enjoyed how battles were designed to assume that you were always ambushing the enemy, since it led to them always being "You are kicking their asses" or "You made a mistake and are now desperately trying not to die", making them feel way more high-stakes.

That and making every single confidant give you useful abilities, AND making each dungeon hand-designed with puzzles went a long way to improving an already good formula. To say nothing of a fantastic cast that I genuinely wanted to hang out with, and a story that wasn't afraid to get dirty or to have a message that's perfectly on-topic for today's world.

It had an incredible amount of substance to it, made battles exceptionally engaging, and nailed the plot too. My only complaint is that at a certain point it keeps making you think "the game is about to end!" and this feeling just keeps going on and on and on until it actually does end (almost abruptly even), which makes it feel like it drags on a little too long.