Let us talk, you and I, about Blizzard

[bob1052]

You do realize that MB has absolutely no clue what he was saying in that video, right?

Like I mean absolutely nothing.

Predicting the future does tend to lean on the "difficult to do" end of the spectrum.

But he tried basing his predictions on what is going on now and in the past, and he has absolutely no clue at all about it.

Everything he said is complete bullocks and it is based on his completely wrong interpretation of the past and present state of things.

 

[Inkidu]

Double Snip

Actually no it wouldn't. Because Blizzard is in control of when they can start weening people off of W.O.W. they have whole divisions of people dedicated to this, and are more than likely noticing the decline in W.O.W. sales. So when Blizzard "The Foremost Authority" on the M.M.O.R.P.G. speaks fans will listen.

But weening people off one MMO for another, untested MMO would be like taking out your own heart and replacing with another heart before you die and hope the new one works as a replacement, and Blizzard didn't get to where they are today with shoddy sales tactics.

Oh, it won't be a spur of the moment thing. It'll take months or years but they'll ween off while they test this new MMO and then people will be weened on.

I can't say it'll happen but start looking for, "Unlock this in W.O.W. if you buy new game."

 

[Slycne]

To say that Blizzard is solely responsible or the worst influence on the gaming industry frankly strikes me as short sighted. There are possibly hundreds of greater factors that are leading to the minor stagnation of the industry.

Rising developments costs are a far bigger cause on the increase of only "safe" investments being green-light than Blizzard Entertainment ever was or will be.

 

[bob1052]

Double Snip

Actually no it wouldn't. Because Blizzard is in control of when they can start weening people off of W.O.W. they have whole divisions of people dedicated to this, and are more than likely noticing the decline in W.O.W. sales. So when Blizzard "The Foremost Authority" on the M.M.O.R.P.G. speaks fans will listen.

But weening people off one MMO for another, untested MMO would be like taking out your own heart and replacing with another heart before you die and hope the new one works as a replacement, and Blizzard didn't get to where they are today with shoddy sales tactics.

Oh, it won't be a spur of the moment thing. It'll take months or years but they'll ween off while they test this new MMO and then people will be weened on.

I can't say it'll happen but start looking for, "Unlock this in W.O.W. if you buy new game."

I don't get what you are saying. If WoW is doing anything it is reaching a plateau. Sure individual sales have decreased in the rate they are being made (and they are still being made) but they are stopping so high above the breaking even point that Blizzard has absolutely no reason to try to push their entire WoW subscriber base to their new game.

If they attempt to force all their WoW fanbase into their new MMO their best case scenario is that they lose no players and thus have an equal number of subscribers. Obviously the worse case is much worse.

If they attempt to make an MMO that won't necessarily conflict in WoW (sure any MMO competes with any other MMO, but if they say, make an MMOFPS it would attract a mostly different crowd than their MMORPG with only a portion of their fans being split between liking both).

Also they already do "Unlock this in W.O.W. if you buy new game."

From SC2:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=56806

 

[Anaklusmos]

Blizzard are good at what they do, so I don't see why they would change the formula. If you do something amazing that earns you a lot of money, like writing a book, you aren't going to think to yourself 'You know what I should do? Do the complete opposite of what I'm good at' and then go out and make your own graphic novel by yourself doing your own drawings and such.

Also, minimum amount of creativity? Blizzard just went back through World of Warcraft and started from scratch, they've changed everything in Cataclysm. They changed questing, they changed raiding, they changed PvP (I don't pvp so I don't know if it's good) they brought in Phasing technology to their games in order to give the player a greater sense of accomplishment, to make them feel like a real hero. Also, I don't play Starcraft, but from what I've heard about it, it's only gotten better. I mean isn't it now a huge sport, which a lot of people compete in to get money and other amazing prizes? Haven't a lot of people who would never touch Starcraft before bought and loved it? I mean I know my friend has.

Also, what do you mean by 3D gaming? Do you mean Nintendo 3DS? If so do you really believe that that is going to change gaming? That it is innovative? You must be deluded, it's just a gimmick. It's just something to entice people to buy a new Ds because they cannot think of a real way to improve it.

Blizzard have also stated that their new MMO is going to be as different to World of Warcraft as possible, this is so customers will buy and play both, this is so people don't choose which one to play because they are so similar but instead can justify paying for them both. They also don't want their new MMO to be in competition with World of Warcraft.

I don't see why you put all this blame on Blizzard. I didn't realize that Blizzard was the only studio in the whole entire world that can be innovative. I didn't realise that it is totally because of Blizzard the gaming industry is being setback. Why can't some other studio take the burden why does it have to be Blizzard?

If it is so easy to come up with a decent I.P, then please do it now. Something that is guranteed to sell, that will not drag Blizzards name through the mud, because people expect a certain quality from Blizzard, it must also be innovative, you know like you said, needs to do something new, it also has to incorportate online play, like all of Blizzards games.

 

[Inkidu]

Umm may I ask a few questions about these points.

"Reason one: They've not produced anything new since 2001"

I understand what your saying but honestly think about applying that logic in other areas of life. Is Mc Donalds or any other restaurant destroying the food industry? Sure they make new dishes but its always the same ingredients they aren't helping propel the food industry forward by releasing a new triple whopper are they? I would hardly say that they are destroying the food industry even if I don't like the food myself.

"Some people say, "I wish every company was like Blizzard."

So whats your point? How does what very few fans say actually form a valid argument against a company? I could say preschool is a demonic conspiracy to teach are children to sacrifice humans but I doubt your going to start protesting preschools. So why take the blizzard fans opinion seriously and then use it as a point against blizzard?

I also hear tell of a new M.M.O.R.P.G. that Blizzard is working on. Now, I might be wrong, I often am. No one is perfect, but do you really think their new M.M.O.R.P.G. is going to vary greatly from W.O.W. in anything mechanical. I doubt it.

Judging a game under the banner it carries rather than the merits it may possess. Under the same assumption I could consider you a troll(I'm not) simply because your attacking blizzard. However I judge your post on the points you made not what I simply believe it is. Of course that is your opinion and you can stand by it but I will not judge the game before I play it.

I related games to art, not to hamburgers. It's easy to pull a comparison from no where but games can be seen as valid artistic expression, hence the "Mona Lisa" reference. However, if I compared classical Greek sculptures to Big Macs the comparison does tend to break down.

On the second point, I suppose it could be seen as the false-consensus bias, but every Blizzard fan I've ever met on the internet and in real life have two staple arguments:

It's all about the polish, and Blizzard's games aren't about story they're about the game play. Of course, when you compare it to demonic conspiracy it does tend to lose something.

You can say that about the game, and you can even mean that. I believe you do. However, I've seen a lot of M.M.O.R.P.G.s and "Extra Credits" covers it better in the Skinner Box thing, but a lot of M.M.O.R.P.G.s are samey because they want to capitalize on what makes W.O.W. so habitual. Why wouldn't Blizzard capitalize on it too? They have one thing going for them. They did it first.

 

[vfaulkon]

I get where you're coming from, but think about this from a more realistic perspective.

You yourself said that Blizz making an MMO that differed mechanically from WoW would be 'killing the golden goose 101'. Well, what if Blizz vanished, taking WoW, Starcraft 2 and Diablo with it? You want to talk about what's good for the industry - how would effectively destroying all the positions those three games have made for people who make, update and maintain them? You now have a mess of skilled, experienced programmers, coders, etc. with nowhere to go. And if you think they'll just magically replace lesser people in the same positions in other companies, you are being amazingly optimistic.

Second, while Blizz may not be generating a lot of new, creative IPs, at least what they ARE making is quality work. There's a reason WoW has not only kept, but maintained over 10 million subscribers at a point when most MMOs are down to the tens of thousands at best, despite having a $15/month subscription fee. There's a reason Starcraft 2 received accolades more or less across the board. Would you rather they start cranking out original IPs that aren't as good, while causing their flagship titles to suffer as well? That'd be ridiculous. That's not to mention how much time and effort (I won't mention money 'cause I doubt Activision Blizzard is hurting too much in that department) it takes to make a single game, let alone make it well.

Blizzard is not a technicolor whirlwind of shiny new ideas, perhaps, but why is that so important? Not every writer tries to create literary pieces that are on the cutting-edge of imagination - someone has to write the Funnies, after all - and not every game developer is trying to push the limits of the medium with every release. Besides, who's to say that Blizz won't eventually have a brilliant idea that they'll make into a game? They'd be in a great position to make it if they did - plenty of funding, talented developers, and a huge fan base to boot.

Personally, I think you're taking an overly-simplistic view of 'creativity = good, Blizz = few IPs, therefore Blizz = not good'. If you wanna rant about their policies, that's fine, but even your subject title sounds kind of pretentious (though perhaps I'm not one to talk ^_^), and your argument sounds hollow. Maybe you were trying to sound too much like Extra Credits or something, I'un'no. Either way, sorry, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Taxman1]

They're a handful of devs not creating new IPs at the rate of a totalitarian factory. Bethesda pops in mind. Technically Valve because they didn't come up with all of their IPs since most of them came from mods but I could be spewing bullshit, prove me wrong.
Anyways you can advance the medium without creating new IPs. Picasso didn't painted with a magic marker, he did it with a common brush. Look at Warcraft 2 to 3, they looked at what was wrong with 2 and replaced it with new mechanics.

It's not a question of whether or not I like Blizzard games, it's not a question of are Blizzard's games good or bad. It's a question of what is Blizzard doing to move the industry forward, and I feel the answer is, nothing.

Ive been saying this for years. Its the saem issue that CoD developers (and CoD clones have)

Did you HEAR DICE?

They want to make their game MORE like CoD

I think we do not give CoD enough credit or at least the now dead Infinity Ward. Lets have a look at CoD4, it broke the mold of WW2 FPS with something that felt fresh, granted they pioneered that WW2 genre. CoD4 did a lot of things right in my opinion, MW2 expanded on the formula because why fix what isn't broken.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Blizzard is possibly the worst thing for the video game industry today, and I sincerely wish it would fall under new management or go out of business.

Man, I am seriously not a mega blizzard fan, but you are pretty clueless here.

Blizzard is pretty much well known for their lack of creating new IPs. This isn't news. It isn't even surprising. What they are known for is polishing the ones they have until they shine.

Also, you are focusing on IP's instead of product line. Sure WoW and Warcraft take place in the same setting, but they are completely different types of games. Wow required a phenomenal amount of vision to pull off as expertly as they did. It was not an incremental modification to one of their existing products.

Honestly, this entire thing just comes off as ignorant sensationalism. Your premise, that a company needs more than 3 IP's, is completely false, and so all your arguments based on it are also wrong.

I address the whole "polish issue" think what you want but you let it slip that you are a "mega-fanatic". Also, I've tried to present my views and support what is basically opinion as best I can. However, I understand that I pale in comparison to the fan's, "You are wrong." defense.

EDIT: Accept my sincere apology. I have a lot of replies to get to and you're not a mega-fan. I misread that. Again sorry.

Blizzard hasn't released that many games. They aren't 'hiding' behind anything. If they pushed out new titles each and every year, I could see that argument. But they don't. They make a few really well done games, and support the heck out of them.

Starcraft was a pretty good IP when it was new, and the brand was very VERY well supported via patches and battle.net for years to come. They've only made one sequel to it, and one expansion pack. The Sequel was a decade later.

I really think if you look at the number of products made, compared to the number of product lines out there, they are doing just fine. They just have a very slow gestation period.

 

[Inkidu]

I say they need to make something other than an RTS or MMORPG.

STARCRAFT: GHOST! COME BACK TO ME! I'LL BUY 5 COPIES OF YOU, I PROMISE! ;~;

I've got nothing to really back this up, but I think they might have scrapped it because it doesn't have the longevity of a M.M.O.R.P.G. or a R.T.S. I doubt Blizzard is the kind of company who can scrap something just because of budget or they can't do it.

 

[Innegativeion]

But he tried basing his predictions on what is going on now and in the past, and he has absolutely no clue at all about it.

Everything he said is complete bullocks and it is based on his completely wrong interpretation of the past and present state of things.

Really don't see how that is. If I think this interpretation of his opinion is completely wrong does it make it so?

Anyway. You don't need new IP to be creative. Nintendo has spearheaded pretty much every major advance in gaming, making some of the best use of each new technology (DOnkey Kong platforming, OOC for 3d, DS for touch screens, Wii expands the average gamer demographic with motion control,) and yet we've all heard the complaints about the big N primarily just milking their main IPs.

So Blizzard has 3 very successful IPs that have become only more successful over time. This is a bad thing? It's not like the existence of WoW sucks the life out of home console or non-mmo pc games. Besides that, Blizzard's in-house technology , and their overall quality of development HAS been improving. Take one look at WoW or starcraft or a diablo trailer and you can discern that.

 

[bob1052]

I say they need to make something other than an RTS or MMORPG.

STARCRAFT: GHOST! COME BACK TO ME! I'LL BUY 5 COPIES OF YOU, I PROMISE! ;~;

I've got nothing to really back this up, but I think they might have scrapped it because it doesn't have the longevity of a M.M.O.R.P.G. or a R.T.S. I doubt Blizzard is the kind of company who can scrap something just because of budget or they can't do it.

What kind of longevity does an RTS have over a shooter? They both survive over time on their multiplayer. They both have the same longevity.

 

[Innegativeion]

What kind of longevity does an RTS have over a shooter? They both survive over time on their multiplayer. They both have the same longevity.

There's the possibility of crap multiplayer or a lack thereof.

I also see no problem with companies producing games within the genre they have the most experience with. RPG maker A making only RPGs will not stop shooter maker B from generating shooters any faster, in regards to Witchwood's concern.

 

[Inkidu]

Blizzard is possibly the worst thing for the video game industry today, and I sincerely wish it would fall under new management or go out of business.

Man, I am seriously not a mega blizzard fan, but you are pretty clueless here.

Blizzard is pretty much well known for their lack of creating new IPs. This isn't news. It isn't even surprising. What they are known for is polishing the ones they have until they shine.

Also, you are focusing on IP's instead of product line. Sure WoW and Warcraft take place in the same setting, but they are completely different types of games. Wow required a phenomenal amount of vision to pull off as expertly as they did. It was not an incremental modification to one of their existing products.

Honestly, this entire thing just comes off as ignorant sensationalism. Your premise, that a company needs more than 3 IP's, is completely false, and so all your arguments based on it are also wrong.

I address the whole "polish issue" think what you want but you let it slip that you are a "mega-fanatic". Also, I've tried to present my views and support what is basically opinion as best I can. However, I understand that I pale in comparison to the fan's, "You are wrong." defense.

EDIT: Accept my sincere apology. I have a lot of replies to get to and you're not a mega-fan. I misread that. Again sorry.

Blizzard hasn't released that many games. They aren't 'hiding' behind anything. If they pushed out new titles each and every year, I could see that argument. But they don't. They make a few really well done games, and support the heck out of them.

Starcraft was a pretty good IP when it was new, and the brand was very VERY well supported via patches and battle.net for years to come. They've only made one sequel to it, and one expansion pack. The Sequel was a decade later.

I really think if you look at the number of products made, compared to the number of product lines out there, they are doing just fine. They just have a very slow gestation period.

Things with long gestation periods usually die out quickly. Like I've said though. I have nothing against the polish, but do you think a fourth I.P. would have been too much to ask. You don't have to support every game out the wazoo especially when they're as finely crafted as Blizzard normally does. Some one shot regular shooter, an experimental puzzle game. They stick with what they have not because it's all they can do, but because it's safe and makes a lot of money.

Before anyone else jumps on me about it. I don't actually think Blizzard should go out of business. I think a house cleanup would do them good. That was my attention getter. It got you to read it, didn't it?

I'm not even advocating that they scrap R.T.S., and the like. Just do something different, you're so good at the genre, you have so much talent, but you won't use it for anything really just crazy risky, but potentially worth more intellectually and maybe monetarily than what you, Blizzard, already has. It's not like they can't afford the hit.

 

[ShadowyMOON]

Inkidu, some food for thought, and it'd answer you SC:Ghost question anyway.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/b20/videos.html#blizzard-retrospective

EDIT: About the support, you NEED to support the wazoo out of it. Do you know how long it took to balance SC and SC:BW properly? If they leave SC 2 now, for example, it would die off as an e-sport or end up with some weird pro-mod edition, then Blizz will get flack for abandoning it.

 

[Inkidu]

But he tried basing his predictions on what is going on now and in the past, and he has absolutely no clue at all about it.

Everything he said is complete bullocks and it is based on his completely wrong interpretation of the past and present state of things.

Really don't see how that is. If I think this interpretation of his opinion is completely wrong does it make it so?

Anyway. You don't need new IP to be creative. Nintendo has spearheaded pretty much every major advance in gaming, making some of the best use of each new technology (DOnkey Kong platforming, OOC for 3d, DS for touch screens, Wii expands the average gamer demographic with motion control,) and yet we've all heard the complaints about the big N primarily just milking their main IPs.

So Blizzard has 3 very successful IPs that have become only more successful over time. This is a bad thing? It's not like the existence of WoW sucks the life out of home console or non-mmo pc games. Besides that, Blizzard's in-house technology , and their overall quality of development HAS been improving. Take one look at WoW or starcraft or a diablo trailer and you can discern that.

Blizzard doesn't innovate in hardware or software. Sure they get better. The Japanese were really good at making swords but then Oda Nobugnaga got his hands on a matchlock musket and nearly united Japan. Also, are those trailers pre-rendered or engine-rendered?

 

[Inkidu]

Inkidu, some food for thought, and it'd answer you SC:Ghost question anyway.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/b20/videos.html#blizzard-retrospective

EDIT: About the support, you NEED to support the wazoo out of it. Do you know how long it took to balance SC and SC:BW properly? If they leave SC 2 now, for example, it would die off as an e-sport or end up with some weird pro-mod edition, then Blizz will get flack for abandoning it.

Okay maybe a better phrasing would be, "Don't make a game that needs support out the wazoo." Give themselves a breather, time to be creative that kind of thing.

 

[Anaklusmos]

I just want to know how you would innovate one of Blizzards game. Or how you would innovate the gaming industry. Just one idea. Right now. If you had the money, and the resources, the people, the time... how would YOU innovate one of Blizzards game. How would you innovate any game. What would you do, so differently, that it would drastically change the face of gaming.

 

[Innegativeion]

Blizzard doesn't innovate in hardware or software. Sure they get better. The Japanese were really good at making swords but then Oda Nobugnaga got his hands on a matchlock musket and nearly united Japan. Also, are those trailers pre-rendered or engine-rendered?

...And then that generation of Japanese people had great grandchildren who would go on to make good use of the firearm.

Blizzard uses new technology as it becomes available but doesn't produce it. What is the problem, exactly?

 

[Inkidu]

I just want to know how you would innovate one of Blizzards game. Or how you would innovate the gaming industry. Just one idea. Right now. If you had the money, and the resources, the people, the time... how would YOU innovate one of Blizzards game. How would you innovate any game. What would you do, so differently, that it would drastically change the face of gaming.

I plead the fifth.