Let us talk, you and I, about Blizzard

[TiefBlau]

Epic Snip

You, good sir, are sex.

 

[Rayne870]

Blizzard is possibly the worst thing for the video game industry today, and I sincerely wish it would fall under new management or go out of business.

Oh boy.

Well, let's hear it.
Snip

/Brofist

*Deep breath in*
Huge friggin snip

You may have a Brofist too. Nicely done!

 

[Skoosh]

What about custom games? That's always been my favorite part of Warcraft and Starcraft. They created a medium for us to put in out own innovation. Look at DotA, almost its own genre now with HoN and LoL. Hell, even if you don't accept that, why attack Blizzard about this? There are such worse offenders out there, why not get angry that there's 50 Mario games or Madden just keeps re-releasing the same thing? In all of that, I couldn't see why Blizzard should be even a main target, let alone your only target.

I can't help but shake the feeling that you're a troll. More IPs do not mean more innovation. By that logic Tolkien didn't do shit since he pretty much just stuck with one IP. Don't like the games? Don't buy them. Their existence isn't hurting you.

 

[ShadowyMOON]

While I previously argued a bit in Blizzard's defense, the praise they get from some people here is pretty ridiculous. They aren't the gods of refining and polish even if that's all they do and the quality of their games has been going down lately.

StarCraft 2, even after beta was delayed by an year had plenty of balance issues and on top of that B.net 2.0 is a complete mess. Matchmaking is flawless, but everything else is pretty much horrible. Interface, lack of usability compared to the old B.net (Yes it has LESS features than the 10 year old B.net for god's sake.) , no LAN, no chat channels, horrendous custom game browsers, no MPQ editing on threat of banning. I could go on but I think I've made my point for now.

I don't agree that innovation is the driving force in the industry, but the collective closing of eyes and trips to la-la land while screaming "Blizz can do no wrong!" are getting rather annoying. Their games are in a decline in terms of quality and features, if Diablo 3 ends up with less features than Diablo 2, much like SC 2 compared to SC 1, we have a major problem.

 

[Kaez]

Wait wait wait....

The OP spoke of lack of innovation, and heaps of money... sorta drifted in and out of that becuase of this simple question.

WHY does it matter to the OP if they don't bother making new IP's (aside from Titan)? Becuase he's bored of those three IP's? They aren't innovative enough? To that last question, this is my response. People want innovation; change. But when there is too much innovation, people cry foul. If there is no innovation, people cry foul. It's a damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Seriously, the reason those three IP's are still alive an kicking is becuase of the player base. Starcraft got a sequel becuase of their fan following, and actually it makes sense becuase they set themselves up for it, a sequel hook at the end of Brood War, and it took them a very long time to get to where they are now (SC:Ghost aside)... and hell South Korea made it a friggen sport.

Had they never made another game I'd say we'd almost have a fully definitive ending to the Diablo series. Baal, Diablo, and Mephisto are "dead", and the only loose ends were the Worldstone and what happened to Tyreal, possibly Baal's Soulstone, and what the lesser two remaining evil's where doing, and that last one might have just been me.

Warcraft (and WoW) are doing so well probably becuase of the fleshed out lore that Metzen and his team have created. Fans are still clamoring for a Warcraft 4 (but are fairly less vocal about it) just to go back to the series roots.

There was a comment about the longevity through multiplayer for games like RTS's. Starcraft has got to be the longest lived RTS out there that has a GOOD free multiplayer system, and is a company that still is in operation, I bet you could go onto Battle.net and still find a game easy, even with Starcraft 2's upgrades and changes to both Battle.net (which in itself is an innovation all the way back to B.net 1.0).

Hmm, kinda long winded post in favor of Blizzard on my part, but there are only a few studios out there I actually like... Blizzard, Bioware (though yeah, play one you played em all), Gearbox, Crytek, and back in the day Dynamix (Long live Tribes), and Looking Glass Studios.

 

[iLikeHippos]

You can't seriously think all that game developers do is 'being a movement'. I get that impression, however.

"If the developers don't do anything new and creative, they should just step off"

They are a BUSINESS. If you hit a mine, and it contains several gold veins, you don't walk the fuck away from it just because to be 'original' and 'explore other territories'. You'll mine the SHIT out of that mine, gain enough gold to substain you, and 100 families for fucking life just for the hell of it.


Blizzard goes for what is safe, but also for what is really, really good. Not a single game Blizzard has released have so far disappointed me.
That's more than I can say for any other developer out there.
Not to mention they have probably stolen half a year of my lifespan in gaming time, as they suck me in like a million dollar hooker.
MUUUUCH more than any other game developer out there.
And I'm just one of the millions out there.

However, you could not have known this at all. Otherwise you would not had posted your lengthy, open, subjective complaint.
So you can thank me later for pointing out the flaws.

 

[adrian_exec]

It's not a question of whether or not I like Blizzard games, it's not a question of are Blizzard's games good or bad. It's a question of what is Blizzard doing to move the industry forward, and I feel the answer is, nothing.

Hello Mr. Inkidu, I'm here to try and explain to you something called supply and demand.

Let me give you a small example before I continue, could you tell me why does Ferrari make only Sports Cars? Why don't they try to make hybrid or electric cars? You know to "push" the envelope into making a car that is fast and economical. Well the answer is simple, they have no demand to make such cars and even though Ferrari cars are very expensive they still have a very high demand to make Sports Cars!

And that's the same with Blizzard, they haven't been releasing new IP's because it was not demanded from them. Especially with WoW, they have been releasing so many expansions for WoW because it was being demanded by the 12 million players. I know cause I used to be one of them, whenever Blizzard would released a new expansions after 6 months or so, they would have to release new content cause the players were starting to get bored of playing WoW. So of course they would focus a lot on WoW and that's why they released a new expansions every 2-3 years.

Same goes for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. My guess would be that Blizzard could do a new franchise but both Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 have been demanded for over 10 years. Like it or not Blizzard actually cares about their fan base, unlike EA who neglects their fan base and streamlines Dragon Age 2 to be more accessible to casual players. Pushing the envelope doesn't mean only releasing new games, but also releasing extremely good and polished games, the way Blizzard are currently doing, if only other companies would try to do the same.

And even though I said all that, I am with you. I wish Blizzard would release a new franchise and I'm quite disappointed that they are making a new MMO. But saying you wish a good company like Blizzard to go out of buisness is to much, you are going overboard with such remarks. There will be a time when they will release a new franchise, just not in the near future.

ps:

I also hear tell of a new M.M.O.R.P.G. that Blizzard is working on. Now, I might be wrong, I often am. No one is perfect, but do you really think their new M.M.O.R.P.G. is going to vary greatly from W.O.W. in anything mechanical. I doubt it. Doing that would be killing the golden goose 101.

Their new MMO is going to be a shooter MMORPG with that direct click-to-fire type combat you'd expect from a shooter. I'd say that varies quite a bit from World of Warcraft.

Blizzard stated that they are making this new MMO because it will offer them more creative freedom then WoW does. So my guess would be that it will be totally different from WoW.

As Mr.Xzi above me said, the new MMO will be a shooter. That alone is already very different from any other companies that have only tried to make WoW clones over the years.

 

[lapan]

While i'm not really interested in most of their games, since i'm not exactly a good RTS player and never really could get into WOW, they can keep doing what they are good at for all i care.

 

[Pyro Paul]

It's not a question of whether or not I like Blizzard games, it's not a question of are Blizzard's games good or bad. It's a question of what is Blizzard doing to move the industry forward, and I feel the answer is, nothing.

It is companies like Blizzard that keep the industry moving forward.

Your problem is that you're looking for iconic 'change the course of history as we know it!' events, and that isn't going to happen... However Blizzard is pushing the industry forward quiet well in developing new mechanics and solutions to problems that plauge many other video games.

Key problems like how to save bandwidth and provide a compelling experience that doesn't melt your processor. Case in point, With the new cataclysm expansion release they created an evolving story which uses 'NPC Phase Instance'. In this, only the NPCs appear and disappear according to your quest progress rather then having huge areas of the world map.

This undoubtably conserves the bandwidth of the servers while also allows players to acctually feel like the world around them is changing and evolving due to their actions. And though while such a solution isn't as innovative or game changing as a physics engine in some other games, it is progressing the industry forward.

Well yes they were moving it forward for a time where the biggest and best hardware/graphics/thing was the goal. However, the cost-to-powerhouse ratio is becoming less and less profitable. The next big or subtle thing will soon not lie in processor power or even bandwidth. It's going to lie in what people do with what they have not where it can go.

... So what you're saying is the next big thing is when a company creates ingenious solutions to subtle problems, working with what they got rather then pushing the envolope.

And my example of how Blizzard create Ingenious solutions to Subtle problems working with in their limitations rather then pushing the envolope isn't exactly that?


your points are controdictory and ill informed...
seriously, you're misreading everything you've quoted so far...

 

[Ranorak]

Blizzard is possibly the worst thing for the video game industry today, and I sincerely wish it would fall under new management or go out of business.

I'm going to wait for the inner and outer raging to die out. So everyone who is actually interested is still here and the hardcore, never-say-die fans have left. Super.

Reason one: They've not produced anything new since 2001, and I'm being generous. By new I mean a new intellectual property (I.P.). Everything they have produced since Diablo has been a sequel expansion MMO-ification of some old property that has done successfully well. Think about it. Starcraft and its expansions, Diablo and its sequel, Warcraft and subsequent installments. Now, I'm not one to go bashing sequels. I like some of them, I hate some of them. That's not the point. The point is Blizzard is trying desperately to stay where it can make the most money for the minimum amount of creativity. I say if you're one of those people who think that games are joining the echelons of mediums that are considered art you should abandon Blizzard.

Some people say, "I wish every company was like Blizzard. They refine their games, releasing only when ready so that it is perfect." Well, champ, I'm going to present to you the other edge of that sword. Refining is all well and good, but honestly if every game was like Blizzard I sincerely doubt we'd have 3-D gaming, I doubt we would have 2.5-D gaming either. Sure Blizzard's business model is pure gold. They rake in what has to be millions on a bad year. However, in innovation, in pushing the envelope, and in general Blizzard might as well be trying to fight off guns with swords. Sure it works for a little while in real life (and works really well in Final Fantasy) but eventually the guy who jumps on this newfangled gun is going to walk away a winner. Just ask Japan, Montezuma, and a whole slew of other people.

Maybe that's an unfair comparison... to the indigenous people. They didn't know this gun was out here history shows that people learned to use them really quickly. Blizzard on the other hand jams its fingers in its ears and says, "We don't need you we just need the Skinner Box!"
If any of you are wondering there is a "Extra Credits" that deals with this issue. Look it up if you're interested. Blizzard's unwillingness to change is also shown in their inability to embrace other platforms. I will cite Mr. MovieBob's "The Big Picture" episode "The P.C. Gamer is Dead--Long Live the P.C. Gamer" as supporting opinion.

I also hear tell of a new M.M.O.R.P.G. that Blizzard is working on. Now, I might be wrong, I often am. No one is perfect, but do you really think their new M.M.O.R.P.G. is going to vary greatly from W.O.W. in anything mechanical. I doubt it. Doing that would be killing the golden goose 101.

Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not advocating the selling of bad or lazily designed games. People need to remember to take pride in doing their jobs. However, not creating anything new in an artistic medium is laziness in and of itself. I'll let you guys in on a little secret. Leonardo da Vinci never finished the "Mona Lisa". Some of you might be aware of this fact, it's there for the people who aren't. Well let's see: A man left an unpolished, unfinished piece of art to the world and to this day people of all ages and origins flock to France to see it. I like my care and polish as much as the next guy, but at some point I'm going to get bored of the same game no matter how carefully planned and flawless it appears to be.

So Blizzard sticks with what's safe, they make oodles of money for it, and they hide behind the guise of polish. Okay, I can see that. However, do you think any other company could go thirteen years without release in new game and still stay in the black? I don't. Alright, so they make a lot of money from W.O.W., and this I have established is basically learned Skinner-esque behavior. If I let this slide, and for the sake of argument I will, then they're creating a billion dollars a year in revenue a year. So lets be fair. Let's take out funding for new projects, overhead, bonuses, and even though it's technically overhead costs, maintenance on servers, oh I'm feeling philanthropic as well. Let's throw in charities. Even if that leaves them with ten million dollars a year couldn't they push that into some kind of branch or independent label, a studio, something? So, yes they are the worse thing for the modern movements in gaming. EA at least has some small studios that occasionally produce something new and good. Why can't Blizzard do the same. They're like the E. Scrooge of the video game world and there's not any Jacob Marley in sight.

It's not a question of whether or not I like Blizzard games, it's not a question of are Blizzard's games good or bad. It's a question of what is Blizzard doing to move the industry forward, and I feel the answer is, nothing.

Still waiting for reason 2....

Anyway, your only compain is that they don't release new IP's often enough?
And that makes em " the worst thing for the video game industry today"?

Really?
You don't honestly believe that, or you're just hatin' for no reason.
They are good at RTS games, Hack 'n Slash and MMO's.
Why would they need to invent a new IP when they got perfectly good ones serving those goals?

Having said that, they ARE working on a new IP, ergo your one and only point is moot.

 

[Nabohs]

I think Blizzard is to Computer Games as Bungie is to Xbox games. They follow that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as in, they already have a fan base that will buy the game and accept it as long as it has the title they want on it. I think that they may also be afraid to release a new game because they have the ability for it to get our there, and they could create really good press for it, but they don't know if the fans would like it, kinda like what happened to John Romero's Dikatana

 

[Sean951]

I think Blizzard is to Computer Games as Bungie is to Xbox games. They follow that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as in, they already have a fan base that will buy the game and accept it as long as it has the title they want on it. I think that they may also be afraid to release a new game because they have the ability for it to get our there, and they could create really good press for it, but they don't know if the fans would like it, kinda like what happened to John Romero's Dikatana

Except Blizzard has 3 major game franchises and is working on a 4th while Bungie does... what exactly?

 

[Nabohs]

I think Blizzard is to Computer Games as Bungie is to Xbox games. They follow that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as in, they already have a fan base that will buy the game and accept it as long as it has the title they want on it. I think that they may also be afraid to release a new game because they have the ability for it to get our there, and they could create really good press for it, but they don't know if the fans would like it, kinda like what happened to John Romero's Dikatana

Except Blizzard has 3 major game franchises and is working on a 4th while Bungie does... what exactly?

I'm only saying that they are similar in terms of releasing content for certain products. Yes, Blizzard has the Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo series while Bungie is holding on to its Halo Series, but in both of their earlier years, they had released games that were fun but didn't become hit series like Oni and Myth for Bungie and The Lost Vikings for Blizzard. Now both companies are a little held back when it comes to releasing games because they don't want to get screwed over by one bad game

 

[Sean951]

They wouldn't be screwed, but Blizzard is very much a perfectionist when it comes to releasing games.

 

[Aeshi]

Under that logic we should get rid of Bioware, they only have about 3 IPs as well (and unlike Blizzard they're all the same bloody genre.)

 

[balimuzz]

First of all, your complaint about Blizzard not having any new IPs is countered by the fact that most companies nowadays don't either. Nowadays, it's all about finding something that works and then cashing it in for all its worth. And while Blizzard have this formula worked out to a T, they really do put a lot of effort into expansion packs and some of the best community support in the games industry today.

The one problem I really have with Blizzard is in the category of WoW, which in my opinion is the pinnacle of MMORPG design, but has made it very hard for other MMOs to break into the market and do really well. But this is a really minor complaint seeings as I'm basically faulting them for being successful, which isn't really fair.

I also hear tell of a new M.M.O.R.P.G. that Blizzard is working on. Now, I might be wrong, I often am. No one is perfect, but do you really think their new M.M.O.R.P.G. is going to vary greatly from W.O.W. in anything mechanical. I doubt it. Doing that would be killing the golden goose 101.

I think that if Blizzard actually does make a new MMO, it would be very different from WoW. There wouldn't really be a point to making it if it wasn't. Blizzard isn't stupid, and isn't desperately in need of money, so any new MMO they made would most likely be a very different style of MMO from WoW. Particularly since creating an MMO like WoW means that it will compete with WoW and lose.

I would actually be pretty excited to see a new Blizzard MMO. They have changed the face of the MMORPG genre and really set a new standard for MMOs over the last few years, so why couldn't they do it again?

 

[Hyper-space]

You do realize that MB has absolutely no clue what he was saying in that video, right?

Like I mean absolutely nothing.

Predicting the future does tend to lean on the "difficult to do" end of the spectrum.

Its not as much as "predicting" the future as it is flame-baiting, complete with the most idiotic and unfounded opinion.

 

[Elijin]

I can see Inkidu's point, to be honest. Blizzard have the manpower and money to really push the industry forward, but they are content to sit on old laurels and simply release more of the same.

I don't agree with Inkidu because I don't see that as wrong. Games may be art, but they're also entertainment and primarily a money making industry, why would an industry giant invest in changes who have the potential to flop, when they can go on with the same old story perfectly fine?

Our friend Oda Nobunaga didn't take up the musket and re-invent Japanese warfare for the sake of curiosity or trying, he had a vested interested in shaking things up and using that to gain an advantage over his rivals. Blizzard is not in that position.
Blizzard are the Shogunate who want exactly the opposite.

Anyhow, I'm probably repeating myself by now and I seriously need some sleep, I'll check this thread tomorrow.

But why could they not be the mover and the shaker? Why can't they have a vested interest? Of all the companies with the capital to do it, Blizzard is at the top of my list. They can take that hit, reap that reward, or step on their own foot if that happens, but they can take that hit and still keep fighting. They're not a fledgling company.

In that regard, independent developers have more guts than Blizzard. Not because they can, but because they have to.

You seem to be forgetting we're not talking about some whimsical artist deciding what his next masterpiece will be, but a company. A company with investors to answer to, staff to pay, futures to maintain. Yes, they probably could take the hit. And whoever is responsible for that idea will also lose their job. Because when a big company takes a hit, someone has to be held responsible. Because while videogames may be approaching the status of art, its still an industry, and when you make big losses in industry, even if you can shrug it off, someone wears that mistake.

So what you really need to consider, is would you really want to lose your job security for 'taking a few risks and pushing for innovation'

And before you come out with 'But how would innovation ever happened if no one risked it?' I bet Blizzard have an R&D team which tries new things. I mean well, the progression from Warcraft to World of Warcraft didnt just accidentally happen. That was a huge innovative step. But you only see the end results. The thousands of advancements that dont work, never go past the front door of any company.

 

[Mnemon]

I've never understood the whole "Blizzard needs to revolutionize the industry" argument. I mean for starters they already did that once (maybe twice). The game itself changed the MMO and PC gaming industry. And I'd say their recent revamp of the 1 to 60 world is a similar industry changing concept.

Isn't that enough? To expect miracles every time they release an expansion or patch is just unrealistic.

The problem is with the rest of the MMO industry. Game after game has crashed and burned for a host of reasons, but usually because they didn't live up to WoW gamers expectations for a polished end product.

 

[Sulgoth]

You do realize that MB has absolutely no clue what he was saying in that video, right?

Like I mean absolutely nothing.

Predicting the future does tend to lean on the "difficult to do" end of the spectrum.

Honestly I sometimes think that Bob's just trolling us, more than anything he likes to do the controversial in those video's. His opinion might be there but he likes to word it to get the best possible outrage out of the fact. Saying he has no idea what he's talking about is just falling into his trap.