Let's Play: Knights of the Old Republic II: Update 23: The Dark Side of the Force

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Reven

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The_Lost_King said:
I vote Destroying the Asteroid fields. I like being the dark side. Thought I am probably going to get overwhelmingly out voted because people on this site are goody-two-shoes..
Actually I liked DS for the first Lp, but (as someone that knows what will happen and choices) that going lightside in this game is nowhere near "goody-two-shoes" and in fact, the light side choices can often have a few good jokes, and you know, seem like what a general good person would do without seeming like the usual "lawful good blessed paladin of righteous puppies and lolipops"
 

Soviet Heavy

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I vote light side on the Peragus blower upper. Look at how wildly the Harbinger shoots when it follows you. It was going to go up in smoke anyways, whether the Hawk shoots or not.
 

AD-Stu

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Light side, let's see how good a pilot this Atton actually is ;)

And yeah, that damn turret sequence... *shudders* it was stupids
 

gamptrak

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Atton needs to prove his worth. Kreia has already shown her awesome power, being able to make it to the ship with one hand and surviving Darth Creeps-me-the-hell-out. So go light side.
 

sage42

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Let Harbinger blow it to bits, that way we don't have to lie later. Because lying, boys and girls, is wrong. And everybody hates it when people are wrong. About anything really.

About the armor I always thought it looked silly for a male exile. But for the female Exile it works incredibly well. Decent armor that doesn't restrict the force powers. And the later versions are even better, hell I've gone whole playthroughs wearing that armor on my Female exiles. MAYBE getting an upgrade in time for the endgame.
 

woodaba

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Looks like the light has pulled ahead after that surge. But will it remain there?
 

Soviet Heavy

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gamptrak said:
Hey Woodaba, between the two sith lords, which do you find more terrifying?
Just two? What about the others?
I mean, you've got the monsters of Malachor with Nihilus and Sion, each representing dark parallels of the Exile. Sion survived the cataclysm through the embrace of pain, while Nihilus turned to his hunger to survive.

And then there is Traya, and whoever she turns out to be. Kreis is her, but so if Atris by the end. There must always be a Darth Traya, and she can be more than one person, so long as the treachery continues.
 

woodaba

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gamptrak said:
Hey Woodaba, between the two sith lords, which do you find more terrifying?
Nihilus. Sion just became too human by the end, especially on a female playthrough, for me to be truly terrified of him, though I still do find him very unnerving. And while you can beat Nihilus by breathing on him (which is totally the point, but I'll get to that when we come to it), there's just something terrifying about an incomprehensible force that devours life by the planetload, and doesn't even regard the existence of mere mortals. There's something very lovecraftian about him, and I eat that up. And then spit it back out in horror. Though of all 4 (really 3, but the last one is two different people), I think I like Atris-Traya the best, on a male playthrough at least, because of the relationship the characters have.
 

Smiley Face

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On a practical side, explosions are harder to dodge than lasers, so avoiding setting them off seems a good plan. On the non-immediate ramifications... well, as many NPCs will delight in telling you, it's not good. So yeah, No Kabooms today.
 

Soviet Heavy

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woodaba said:
Soviet Heavy said:
gamptrak said:
Hey Woodaba, between the two sith lords, which do you find more terrifying?
Just two? What about the others?
Shh...

In answer to your question, Gamptrak...

Nihilus. Sion just became too human by the end, especially on a female playthrough, for me to be truly terrified of him, though I still do find him very unnerving. And while you can beat Nihilus by breathing on him (which is totally the point, but I'll get to that when we come to it), there's just something terrifying about an incomprehensible force that devours life by the planetload, and doesn't even regard the existence of mere mortals. There's something very lovecraftian about him, and I eat that up. And then spit it back out in horror.
I prefer Sion myself. He hides behind his hubris, and I find the human element of him compelling. Nihilus was a force of nature, to be sure. But the rivalry between the two of them is great. In the Restored Content Mod, when Sion confronts Nihilus, you really see just how different the two of them are, and it is a great contrast. Nihilus can beat Sion without even lifting a finger, and just to spite Sion, he doesn't even bother to kill him.

But all this while, Sion has been the one launching attacks against the Exile, actively hunting him/her down personally, while Nihilus leaves the scheming to people like Tobin and his cabal of Sith Lords. Sion's need to be the best and his arrogance define him. He is the more flawed of the Sith lords, but to me, the more compelling.
 

woodaba

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Leonardo Chaves said:
I really dislike the fact that "mr all powerfull sith lord" speaks with his mouth full, i never got why they choose to go that way... so Sion.
I prefer to think of it as He Who Shall Not Be Named is speaking some kind of Lovecraftian Old Tongue. Mortals literally can't comprehend what he's saying.
 

AD-Stu

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woodaba said:
Leonardo Chaves said:
I really dislike the fact that "mr all powerfull sith lord" speaks with his mouth full, i never got why they choose to go that way... so Sion.
I prefer to think of it as He Who Shall Not Be Named is speaking some kind of Lovecraftian Old Tongue. Mortals literally can't comprehend what he's saying.
I'm the same - I thought it was somehow cool that we mere mortals couldn't understand a word he was saying. I think it went really well with the whole facless thing as well. But we'll get to that, I suppose :)
 

A-D.

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woodaba said:
Leonardo Chaves said:
I really dislike the fact that "mr all powerfull sith lord" speaks with his mouth full, i never got why they choose to go that way... so Sion.
I prefer to think of it as He Who Shall Not Be Named is speaking some kind of Lovecraftian Old Tongue. Mortals literally can't comprehend what he's saying.
Actually, he's speaking Sith. At least thats how it is implied. If i recall correctly there is only one little hint about it via Atris in her Holocron Room, which are Sith Holocrons, hence Nihilus is actually speaking "Sithese", which is the fan-term for the language.

Could go on a page-long rant about the concept but im not going to. However, with Bob in general, i get the feeling that we will end up having a slightly neutral run, given that alot of the Game is not clear-cut like the first one was, and well it would make sense considering "Daddy" ;P
 

woodaba

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[HEADING=2]Update 5: The Interlude[/HEADING]

Last time we left the Three Musketeers, we narrowly escaped from a mining base, destroyed the Robot that killed all the people there, looted his rotted carcasses, fought our way through an army of sith, Kreia got her hand cut off, and we partook in a terrible turret section. However, the Sith's ship, the Not-At-All-Ominous-Sounding-Harbinger, is in hot pursuit, and turbolasers and highly volatile asteroid fields don't tend to go over well.

"Keep your distance from those asteroids, Atton. This is your chance to prove that you're worthy of being our designated pilot. It's either that, or we feed you to T3. Dog Food's pretty scarce out here, after all. And I here them dogs love the taste of human flesh."

"I'm not a dog, you imbecilic meatbag!"

"Of course you aren't."



"Yeah, and then we'd burn horribly in nuclear fire. I guess you're still delirious from blood loss, but damn, woman. That idea sucks."





"Hmm. Our choices are die, or die. Wonderful. Atton, just stay the course. We'll get out of this yet. After all, they can't kill off the main character this soon."

"...does the word "Raiden" ring a bell?"



"Well, this is it. Dying with a bunch of meatbags. I can think of worse ways to die, I suppose. Oh wait, no I can't."





So, let's see the consequences of our decision. Will it be like Alpha Protocol, where choices are meaningful and change the direction of the story? Or will it be like The Walking Dead, where it's the same story but some characters might be wearing different hats?





Yep. Choice affects nothing but your conscience. Harbinger hits the field anyway...





...and Peragus still goes up in flames.

Peragus is a sticking point for fans and non-fans alike. Most people think it sucks. A boring, repitive gauntlet through repetitive enemies. But, the atmosphere and writing is great. I honestly think peragus would be great for a point-and-click like Gemini Rue (that game's awesome) or Blade Runner The Game (also awesome), but as an RPG where they have to dump robots in for you to fight? Not so much fun. But, I do like the planet overall. As I said, great writing, great atmosphere, and I can forgive a lot of things for those things. Plus, it's genuinely creepy, at least the first time you go through it. Not Eternal Darkness or Silent Hill 2 of constant unyielding terror, but more Majora's Mask-level underlying feel of unease.

That is, if you separate yourself from the fact that you play a super-capable Kung-Fu jedi.





Finally, we enter Hyperspace, and leave this place behind...forever.



Also, I guess we're in the time vortex now.






"I have a name, you know."

"I do. However, your name is stupid. Therefore, I reject your reality and substitute it with my own."

"You said the Harbinger was on it's way to Telos?"







"How did you know I was on board the Harbinger? I took great lengths to ensure that I would not be followed."

"I would hardly call the act of updating your Facebook status constantly claiming that you are in the Nar Shadda Red Sector an act of strategic genius. Besides..."







"That's an unusual set of coincidences."



"Also, the writers were lazy, and the Force is like crack for lazy writers."

"How come I don't remember any of this?"



"Then, how did we get to Peragus?"





"Hey, asswipes! It was me! Me! The real hero of this game!"





"Aw, shut up, you old hag. I could take you. In a fight. With me. And you. Come at me, bro."

"He says he repaired the ship and took it to Peragus."

"Sure, Bob. Whatever you say."







"Alright, Atton. I'll repair the ship. And then I'll kill you in your sleep."

"Kreia, why are these Sith after me?"



"But...I was exiled from the Jedi order. I'm not a Jedi anymore."



"But...last of the Jedi? That can't be true."



"What about the Jedi on Dantooine? And Coruscant?"







"Well, they were morons. So, yeah. Fuck those guys. But...if any survivors still live, we need to warn them."



"Then, how do we stop the Sith?"



"They're eager to fight us - I say we fight back."





"What do you mean?"



"The Mandalorian Wars were my choice."







"If we don't fight the Sith, then we sacrifice the Galaxy."







##

"Yeah...she did seem well enough for someone who had just lost her hand."



"What are you talking about?"





"That's...odd."





"When did you get so sensitive?"



"I'm gonna check on her. Can you handle things up here?"

"Oh, sure. All I gotta do is type on my invisible keyboard for a couple hours."

With that done, we finally have free reign of our ship. It's been a while since KotOR 1, but our old girl, the Ebon Hawk, hasn't changed much.



We do find this interesting sight in the cargo hold. That's a familiar paint job...







We got a HK vocabulator from the charred remains of our friend back on Peragus, so we can install that.



That done, we continue exploring the rest of the ship, and run into T3, working on the engines.



"Hey, do you know where that HK droid in the Cargo Bay came from?"



"That didn't sound very convincing. Are you sure you don't know?"



"Oh, fine. Keep your secrets. Say, you look like you've suffered a heck of a lot of damage over the years."



"Wow, you certainly are making great use of your vast vocabulary today. How much damage?"



"So, you lost a lot of programs in your behavior core, in addition to the damage to your frame?"



"I'm sure you'll gain that skill back. I'm glad there's someone useful on this ship."



"I have decided that in the robot apocalypse, your death will be quick and painless."

"That's nice of you, T3. Thanks."

"Think nothing of it."

Continuing our exploration of our old ship, we come across the old spice compartment, only now it holds...



Jedi Robes! And Pazaak cards! And random chemicals! Perfectly normal!

Our exploration done, we head over to Kreia's chambers.





"Listen...when you lost your hand...I felt it too."



Conversations with Kreia are an influence minefield. There are SO many things you can say that piss her off. You can't be too nice. You can't be too nasty. And, above all, you can't try to help her, or she will bite your head off.

"If I felt the loss of your hand, what would have happened if you had died?"



"More extreme? It felt like my hand had been dipped in molten carbonite."



"By the way, I meant to ask, how the hell did you get away from Sion?"

"The Force did it."

"Ah, of course. Wait...are you saying that my life is tied to yours?"



"Then we gotta work together and try to be careful until we can fix this."



"How could this bond have happened?"



"It seems the force flows easily through us - when one of us manipulates the force to heal or strengten themselves, it will aid the other too."

It's a neat little mechanic, actually. It goes a certain way towards eliminating the issue in the first game where buffs only affected the caster, where Kreia or Bob can buff themselves, and the other will gain the benefit. Pretty cool, all things considered.



"When we were on Peragus, I could feel the force again."



"It was like a whisper...at the edge of hearing. Like it was coming from a great distance."



"Wait...what? The Jedi did this to me?"



"But, to cut someone off from the force, it is like losing all your senses at once."





"Um...Kreia..."

"What is it?"

"Your pants."

"What about them?"

"I...I think they're on fire."

"Pay that no mind."

"All right then, uh...there must be some way to reverse what the Jedi did."





"Slim is better than none."







"I will honor whatever training you offer."





"I'm gonna need all the help I can get. I would welcome whatever you can bring to the table."



"Can you recap what's happened since the Mandalorian Wars for the benefit of those who haven't played the first game?"



"Tell me about the Wars."





"The Jedi council were scared. They preferred to stand back and "assess the threat". Only a few Jedi had the courage to go into battle. Like me."



"And Revan and Malak refused to wait."





"Until we destroyed them...at Malachor V."



"Many Jedi died at Malachor V, and the conflict split the order."







"I felt them fall...war had consumed them."







"Didn't the Jedi Order try to stop them?"





"Then, how were Malak and the Sith defeated?"



"But what happened to Revan?"



It's not like Revan to leave unfinished business just hanging like that. What on earth has happenned to her?"



"So, Revan turned on Malak - to save the Republic?"





"Then we must do what we can until it can recover from the war."



If you take nothing else away from that conversation, remember that line.





"Perhaps the Republic may be better suited to stand on it's own. If we prop it up, it's only setting itself up for a bigger fall. If we do anything, we need to help the Republic help itself."







"Because I'm the last jedi?"







Shakespeare, eat your heart out.



"No pressure then. I need to know more about the Sith hunting us."



"There was another Jedi Civil War?"







It's rather vague what she's actually talking about, after all, every bloody war in Star Wars could be summed up like that, but I think she's referring to the Great Schism, or First Schism, the first war where the Jedi broke into the Jedi and the Sith.



"But these Sith seem...different."







"The Sith on the Harbinger knew some Force techniques, but they were weak."











"He's not a fool...but he does seem odd to me."





Taking Kreia's advice, finally freed from the Coversation That Never Ends, we head to the cockpit.
 

woodaba

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"For someone without much to say, she sure says a lot."



"I'm not so sure. My grandma spent her entire day reminding me how much of a failure I was, spent her entire life making racist comments about everyone who happened to pass by, and she lived to the ripe old age of 98. Unfortunately."

"I'd imagine our passenger's pretty old too. She might have been good-looking once, but it takes from hard living to make creases like that."

"Good looking? Are you that desperate?"





"Look, ease off on the insults. She got herself wounded trying to help us escape, remember?"





"Let's focus on getting to Telos for the time being."







"All right then."



"To what?"



"My lightsaber was taken from me...by the council."



This is a cool little bit of RP'ing, where you can decide what lightsaber you want your character to have used in the past. It doesn't affect things very much, or at all, really, but it's pretty cool nontheless.

"It was a double-bladed one. Fuck, there's got to be at least one interesting character with one of those."





"No, both the blade and the crystal were unique."



"Orange, like Husaq's sun."



"To be honest, I think having it would only telegraph my presence even more."





And so, we set off for Citadel Station.



No, not that one.









"Welcome to Citadel Station. I am SHODAN, your friendly neighborhood artificial intelligence. Please wait in the hangwr, while Citadel Security intercept your party."

I think we may be nearing crossover saturation point.











"Are we under arrest? I can't go back inside, man. My high quality posterior won't survive in the joint!"





"This outrageous. You don't have any evidence."





"Ugh, all right then. But I warn you, if my ass comes to any harm, I'm going to hold you personally responsible."





"Gah! What the hell happened to your face, Atton? I think you've had a stroke."

Some time later...





Meanwhile, at C-Sec...





"A force cage? This is ridiculous."





"So be it, but i'll remember this."





We go to sleep in an exceptionally uncomfortable position.





The door slides open, revealing a C-Sec officer.



"Let me out, and we'll see how disappointed you are."







"Uh, Atton?"





"Atton, I'm sure in Bizarro land goading your enemy on when you're hopelessly defenceless is an effective tactic, but we aren't in Bizarro land, funnily enough."



"ATTON! SHUT! THE! FUCK! UP!"



"We're in a TSF station. How do you expect to get away with this?"





"I don't think so. (puts on sunglasses) Your body's staying right here."




"Aw, Atton. I didn't know you cared."



I just realized: it looks like the Rick Santorum lookalike from Taris in K1 has returned to seek vengeance upon us...



"Wait, you're deactivating the Force Cages? You are the worst Bounty Hunter ever. Of all time."



Proving more sprightly than our would-be killer intended, we kick the ever-loving shit pout of him.

"Go for the eyes, Atton! Go for the eyes!"



And, almost instantly, the assassin falls.

"Man. This guy makes Casey Hudson look good at his job."



However, the Casey Hudson Fanclub has obviously detected our slight, and his rushing into his defence.



"Wow...this looks kind of...awkward."



"Atton did it!"



"Kreia did it!"



"Did I mention Atton?"







"He was an assassin, here to kill me. Good thing you're all so competent and on the ball about everything."





"I'm glad someone noticed only AFTER he tried to kill me."





"The best of your ability? Oh, that's very reassuring. Kreia? Atton? Everything's gonna be ok! I mean, they only let the one assassin in. I'm sure it was an honest mistake."



I adore the silence here. This game can be funny, when it wants to be.

"Just take me to my quarters."





And so, we leave C-Sec, and head over to our new quarters.

Next time: Wanton slaughter, space-hippies, EA, and Bob tries to flirt.

One quick question before I leave you: what would you have done in the situation Bob was in, at the very beginning of the update? Taking out the karma meter, would you have done the same thing? Or would you have done the opposite? If i'm honest, I think I would have went the other way. I know Peragus' destruction has serious far-reaching consequences, but we didn't (and still don't) know that at the time, and as far as we were aware, everyone in the facility was dead. It probably would be the more appealing option to me. But, what about you guys/gals?
 

sage42

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I would have left the station intact, if only because it could have bee inhabited again, life could have kept on going for the station if not the workers.
 

Evolutionary High

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Just finished the Jedi Enclave scene, now that was one of the best moments ever in gaming. The dialogue right there just shook me to the core, that was stronger than the Revan reveal, that was 100% character development, great dialogue, and didn't have to go for a shocking twist.

But I think I screwed up the game a little. I wasn't able to enter the Korriban secret tomb because I wasn't heavily aligned with either the LS or DS side...I'm guessing I won't have a chance to enter it again huh.

Also didn't get Kreia's backstory or her relationship with Revan and Atris, nor HK-47's, nor Hanharr's, nor Handmaiden's. That sucked, I'll have to play it again differently one more time.

I was surprised at how much dialogue, I mean real dialogue HK-47 has in this game, it's not just "kill this meatbag" stuff, it's actual real philosophical stuff about Revan, which was just awesome.
 

woodaba

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Evolutionary High said:
Just finished the Jedi Enclave scene, now that was one of the best moments ever in gaming. The dialogue right there just shook me to the core, that was stronger than the Revan reveal, that was 100% character development, great dialogue, and didn't have to go for a shocking twist.
It's my favorite scene in video game history. Avellone was talking out of his ass when he said that KotOR 2 had no big twist like KotOR 1: that's one of the best twists in ANY medium, let alone video games.

Evolutionary High said:
I was surprised at how much dialogue, I mean real dialogue HK-47 has in this game, it's not just "kill this meatbag" stuff, it's actual real philosophical stuff about Revan, which was just awesome.
I'll never forget HK's definition of love.