On the other hand, if Richard Garriot had written this game, it probably would have began like this:
Hail, Spectre! This guy, Saren, is totally wrecking our shit. Go to these 8 places that you went to in the last 2 games and do the same thing there that you did in the last two games. No, we're not going to give you the equipment needed to survive the deadly difficulty spikes that hunt in packs. Now, shoo. I'm going to sit here not using my immortallity for anything useful.
I kid, Richard. You were awesome. I don't know what sinister doppelganger has replaced you, but he isn't you.
On the choice, I think Grunka is not the kind of person who is fond of Internal Affairs. On the other hand, Anoleis is a bit of a dick. So, I would lean towards 2, though if you wan't, there's an alignment points exploit if you follow 1.
Just in case it influences anyone's decision, I'm not planning on using the infinite morality points glitch (though I'll certainly point it out, if we take that path).
Also, just to metagame things a little (in case it influences any decisions)... We can get big Paragon and/or Renegade bonuses from Options 1, 3 and 5, but not from Options 2 and 4. And yes, I believe we should have enough Charm/Intimidate points to take any of the conversation options we like, whichever path we choose.
This is what I really like about this part of the game, there's actually a bunch of legitimate different paths and solutions to the problem
So far we're going with either #1 or #2, with a leaning towards #1 - keep those votes coming
woodaba said:
On the other hand, if Richard Garriot had written this game, it probably would have began like this:
Hail, Spectre! This guy, Saren, is totally wrecking our shit. Go to these 8 places that you went to in the last 2 games and do the same thing there that you did in the last two games. No, we're not going to give you the equipment needed to survive the deadly difficulty spikes that hunt in packs. Now, shoo. I'm going to sit here not using my immortallity for anything useful.
LOL'd - totally. I dunno if I'd laugh or cry if Richard Garriott had actually written this game. I'm guessing if he had, there probably would have been some unmarked item that you needed to pick up on Eden Prime that wouldn't be mentioned again until the endgame but that you absolutely needed to win
Yeah, that's basically how I was planning to handle Option #1 if people go with it. Might want to spoiler some of the above stuff just in case anyone hasn't actually played the game, BTW (I know all the regulars in this thread have, but we might have others pop in
I did the first conversation with Matsuo while playing out the above update (didn't show it because we were long already and not much of any consequence gets discussed), but I think I somehow screwed it up and didn't get the morality points for it. I also left some on the table in the the discussions with the asari and human from Binary Helix in the bar - oops! For anyone wondering if I'm using the guide to plan all this out... there's your answer
And yeah, the Synthetic Insights being licensed to research AI thing is just a throwaway line that I'd never really given any thought until now. But now that I have thought about it, it makes absolutely zero sense.
OK, so this is really, really close between #1 and #2 on votes.
I'm going to go with #1, purely because it offers more Paragon/Renegade points, plus I can try to fulfil Vuliev's wish with having Wrex there and have a crack at Topaz's suggested twist on the theme (which I'll admit, I've never actually attempted before).
Now that I think about it, I can't remember if Wrex says his line for both the Paragon and Renegade options. He definitely does for Paragon, and I feel like Qui'in having given Grunka an opportunity to mercilessly murder some folks would put him on her good side.
I think you might be right. Not to spoiler the next update or anything (it's been played and screengrabbed, I'm just finishing writing it at the moment) but I went back and got Wrex and he didn't say anything at all during the Qui'in conversation using the Intimidate path.
He did get in a classic Wrex line in a subsequent conversation though, so it's not a total loss
[HEADING=2]CHAPTER 5, PART 2 (Noveria) - Holy flying space lobsters Batman![/HEADING]
Previously, on Lets Play Mass Effect: We landed on Noveria, discovered that Liara's mum is here and then shot a bunch of people in the name of getting a jumped-up hall pass garage pass. Let it never be said that Grunka isn't petty.
When we left off we had a bunch of different options for obtaining that garage pass. The votes have been tallied...
"Bosh'tet - what exactly are you accusing me of?!?"
...as in, counted...
"Oh."
...and we're going for the "convince Qui'in to testify - with a twist" option. But before we do, as requested by Vuliev:
"Now that you have my property, you want to dictate how I use it? I have no interest in a public spectacle."
"If necessary, yes. Do what I tell you to, or Anoleis will find what he's looking for."
That netted us 25 Renegade points because we used the Intimidate option to convince him, not the Charm one (which would have got us about the same in Paragon points). You can have that conversation over and over again before you leave and get paid the points every time, in something known as the 'infinite morality points glitch'. In theory it'll let you max out both your morality bars using it. I'm too honest though, so I won't be doing that.
Now all we need to do is go hand the evidence over to Parasini and tell her Qui'in will testify.
"Um... Shepard? We seem to have walked straight past the Internal Affairs agent. What are you planning?"
"A little bit of light extortion. I reckon this Anoleis guy will be a pushover when the chips are on the table. A hundred credits says I don't even have to draw my gun."
"You left the puny biotic human back on the ship when you picked me up, Shepard. He's the only one stupid enough to bet against you."
"And besides, it goes without saying that you won't need to draw your guy. You brought a krogan instead."
"Oh. That's right. Well... just watch and learn then."
Note the range of options we have here, including telling him about the smuggled package and the fact Parasini is investigating him. We choose the top left one though:
"And you would keep this supposed 'evidence' I imagine. You need a pass to enter our garage. As a gesture of good will, I will provide one. Noveria prizes its good relations with the Citadel."
Not sure if that's the line you were talking about Vuliev, but it's all he said the whole time. It's very Wrex
Sadly though he's wrong - if we wanted to save time, all we needed to do was report Opold's smuggling and then we could have left without ever even going into the hotel or the Synthetic Insights office. But where would the fun have been in that?
We get EXP and a garage pass, so we can leave now if we want. Or we could...
"That's a world of stress off my back. I'll take the evidence for safe transport. I didn't think you'd help me. Being a Spectre and all. I guess some of you can be all right."
Same outcome, but we got extra EXP and morality points. Since we didn't bring up the smuggling with Anoleis we still have Opold's package in our possession...
"You've got your hands on a hanar's package? Wouldn't that be really slippery?"
Oh Wrex. Never change.
...so we may as well do something with it. The obvious thing would be to just deliver it to Opold for our reward, but instead Grunka visits the krogan upstairs in the bar.
Huh. Try again:
Krogan really do have a way of blocking the camera shots...
"I am. I thought it would be better to deal with you directly."
He offers us 500 credits. We can just accept that, but Grunka doesn't roll that way:
"Damn - check out the quad on you, Shepard..."
He then increases his offer to 750. Grunka takes the extra credits, figuring there'll always be time later to indulge in her lifelong dream of headbutting an indignant krogan.
"Hey, that's a great idea! *scribbles notes*"
Grunka heads back to the Normandy momentarily to change Wrex back out for Kaidan, and has a quick chat with Matsuo on the way.
"I wanted to tell you how unfortunate it was that Anoleis-sama was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Rest assured, I bear you no ill will."
*under breath* "That's either because you don't know what I did to your deputy yet, or because you do know what happens to those who choose to bear me ill will. But regardless..."
"As far as they are concerned, Anoleis-sama went too far. On Noveria, you may do what you wish, so long as you do not disturb public order. I only request that you limit the number of disturbances you provoke. I would consider it a favour."
Free Paragon points right there. We bid Wrex adieu again for a little while, collect Kaidan back up and head to the garage.
She excuses us and we walk into the garage.
"Sometimes, Lieutenant, it seems they spent so little time on your colour lines that I actually feel sorry for you..."
*mutters* "Maybe if you carried a gun you could have helped us..."
Matsuo doesn't have much else to say, other than that if Benezia did have geth in her containers, then there are a lot more of them getting around. So we get on our way. At the end of the garage there's a closed roller door and this:
"Really? Another damn Mako run?!? I swear, when this is all over, I'm putting in a requisition order for a shuttle on the Normandy..."
"*scribbles more notes rapidly* Good thinking - any other ideas?"
"Maybe a human male squadmate that's actually interesting?"
"Whoa, let's not get carried away..."
"Hey, I'm right here!"
That's right, it's another 100% linear Mako run, like the ones on Feros and Therum. This one at least has the redeeming quality of being kind of pretty though.
That'd be Peak 15 in the distance. And naturally it wouldn't be a jaunt in the Mako if we didn't have to stop to kill some geth along the way.
This section does have the added annoyance of a Level 1 cold hazard, so you have to either put on some weather-resistant armour (which I have in the inventory, but forgot to equip) or duck back inside the Mako periodically.
This is my genius squadmates firing their pistols at enemies so far away my sniper rifle won't even register the range... making it more than 300 metres.
"Stop that you two and get back in the tank - we'll just run the geth over when we get there."
Like every other linear Mako section, we end up at a point where we have to continue on foot.
Hmm. Juggernauts at close range are bad news. Unless...
Y'know how I was ragging on the Lift power last update? OK, I'll admit, it occasionally has its uses
"Lieutenant, remind me. What's my theory about scientists?"
*looks away quickly* "Well okay, maybe not always. But I'd say it's a pretty fair assessment of what's happened here."
"On that I think we can agree, Commander."
Speaking of my two squadmates, who wants to know what they both think of this place?
*facepalm* Is it just me, or did the writers really not like Kaidan?
A confidence-inspiring sign, to be sure. I should point out something that won't really come across in this LP given the screenshot format, and that's the atmosphere of this section. For my money, Bioware actually did a pretty good job of building a slightly creepy, Aliens-esque, "WTF is going on here" atmosphere with little touches like these turrets, the cryptic references to "biological contagions" and the music. Pat on the back for them.
Anywho, we take an elevator upstairs, because this place is full of god-damned elevators...
...and find a snowed-over lunch room or something.
Note the cut scene has the weapons arse-backwards. Liara and Kaidan are holding the assault rifles that they have no idea how to use, while Grunka is holding the pistol that she hasn't used since she upgraded to the Neverending Stream Of Death 5000 assault rifle. It's a quirk that runs through all three games... but enough about that, this thing has just shown up!
*sniffs* "Lieutenant, is it those space lobsters that smell so terrible, or did you just soil yourself?!?"
"Erm... the space lobsters, ma'am. Definitely the space lobsters." *crosses legs awkwardly*
That is indeed an ugly looking creature - and apparently not one our heroes are familiar with. So let's engage in some Grunka-style first contact diplomacy, using the business end of a rifle.
Yeah, OK. Lift does have its uses.
"You kids really need to pay more attention to your HUDs. Mine just told me that was a rachni. Seriously, people are still talking about the rachni wars, how did someone not take photos?"
Despite their appearance, the rachni are credited as being a highly intelligent species with some kind of hive-mind ability.
They were first encountered almost 2,200 years before the events of ME1 by salarians who activated a previously-dormant relay to a new part of the galaxy. The rachni quickly reverse-engineered the salarian's ships, designed their own vessels capable of FTL travel and spread all over the galaxy. They spent the better part of the next century wrecking shit. These were the Rachni Wars.
The Council didn't have any luck negotiating, so they recruited another species - the krogan - to do their fighting for them. Through sheer weight of numbers and by virtue of being... well... krogan, they were able to push the rachni all the way back to their homeworld. The krogan then bombed the rachni to a crisp, and the species was officially declared extinct in the year 300CE - or about 1,800 years before ME1.
Incidentally, these events led to the Council enacting its law about not activating dormant mass relays - the crime humanity unknowingly committed that sparked the First Contact War.
Indeed. Here's the fun part about this world: from here on in rachni pop out of vents when you least expect them. Like so:
They're actually a bit difficult to deal with if you don't have the right squad and powers. They're organic and they don't have guns, so tech powers (ie: all of Grunka's) are useless against them. They're deadly at melee range, they move reasonably quickly, and they also have some kind of poison-spitting ranged attack that can pack a wallop.
Fortunately, all you need to do is use something like Lift or Singularity to get them off their feet or claws or whatever and they become defenceless floating targets... which is why I brought our two best biotics along
Up another elevator:
All the doors off this chamber are locked, but at the end of the room...
Flicking the switch sends us in slightly creepy Han Solo style into a circular pit.
Grunka saves her omni-gel, because she has a feeling this won't be very difficult.
*stares directly out of the screen* "Really Casey? Really?!? A Tower of Hanoi puzzle? You realise this is just pointless busy work, right?"
"Hey, you could have skipped it with omni-gel..."
Grunka quickly shuffles the modules to an alternative stack, because she played KOTOR on the way here and solved this exact same puzzle in that game, and the system reboots itself.
"One moment, please. Council authority confirmed. You are entitled to Secure Access of all systems. If I were programmed to make value judgements, I would note that giving you even the lowest level of access to my systems makes no sense given the prevailing 'say nothing to the Spectre' attitude exhibited on the rest of this world. But I'm not so I won't."
"I need to find Matriarch Benezia."
"Lady Benezia departed on the passenger tramway to the Rift Station subsidiary labs. User alert! The tramway system is currently inoperable."
"Hudson? Do you have more damned busy work planned for me?"
"I don't know what you could possibly mean, Grunka..."
Mira informs us that the main reactor has been shut down in accordance with emergency containment procedures - the theory being with no power, the place will freeze over and hopefully kill any biological contagions. Hence all the snow and ice on the inside of the building. The landlines that facilitate mainframe access to Rift Station have also been cut for safety reasons, and need to be reconnected. Then there's the 64 million credit question:
That'd be a roundabout way of saying "yes", methinks
"Stage II alert issued at hot labs. Isolation Tube breached. Trams shut down. Landline to Hot Labs disconnected. Stage III alert issued locally. Contaminants in tram tunnels. Station shutdown and evactuation initiated. Code Omega sent."
That's about as much detail as Mira will give us, so Grunka shakes a fist in Casey Hudson's general direction and sets about her appointed busy work. Immediately behind us is a door with a picture of a satellite dish above it - communications, methinks. Let's see if we can fix the landlines through there.
Naturally there are a bunch of rachni up here. Fortunately, they're just as vunerable to cheapshotting as everything else in this game. Here's Grunka killing one by shooting it repeatedly in what passes for its knee.
Huh. Repairing the landlines was as easy as flicking a switch. I wonder if fixing the reactor will be as easy?
There were more doors leading off the lobby that are open now. Except naturally, when we get there another space lobster appears.
In a slight change of pace, we're back to killing geth again in this room.
Yep, it'll be just that easy.
It's been two minutes, so obviously there's another rachni soldier to kill when we go back through the lobby again...
...before we can follow the tramway signs to the exit.
The path through decontamination is blocked by a locked door and even more space lobsters.
While we could hack open the door just shoot the rachni, Grunka thinks fiddling with this big red switch might offer an easier solution:
Sure enough:
Tune in next time for all the fun of Rift Station!
Apologies for the delay in getting this update out BTW. Working a six-day week at the moment with a new baby in the house, so I haven't had a lot of free time
Yeah, combat AI in general (on both sides) in this game is pretty stupid / exploitable. Again, credit where credit's due, it's something Bioware definitely improved for the following titles in the trilogy. I don't know that they ever made it really good, but they definitely improved it.
Thanks Sometimes Casey's lines just write themselves...
And yeah, it's the first time I've ever tried that particular solution to the garage pass problem. The fact that I must've had at least half a dozen complete playthroughs of the game and I'm still finding new ways to do stuff reinforces why Noveria is probably my favourite part of this game. Compare it to our previous major quest worlds, Feros and Therum, and the were basically linear. Ironically, Noveria is also the one where you can elect to skip almost all of the content... go figure!
I really like this bit of the game. You're dead right, Bioware nailed the atmosphere for this section of the game. It's genuinely creepy and unnerving, especially if you know what the Rachni are. It reminds me of Peragus in KotOR II, but it doesn't outstay it's welcome quite as much as that particular section does. You also showed a hell of a lot more restraint than I would; I would be throwing out Aliens jokes constantly.
And that Towers of Hanoi puzzle can seriously piss off. I hate those damn things, but Bioware seems to love them. Why, I have no idea.
Don't worry about the delays, go at your own pace, the updates always come out better that way.
Heh - yeah, the Aliens thought has crossed my mind. I snuck Hicks in a few updates ago...
And yes, the Peragus level does come to mind. They're obviously executed very differently but it's nice to know that, when they're really on their game, Bioware can still do more than just space-cheese
[HEADING=2]CHAPTER 5, PART 3 (Noveria) - Space lobster mornay[/HEADING]
Previously, on Lets Play Mass Effect: we engaged in blackmail for fun and profit, went for a drive in the snow, built some Towers of Hanoi and then went on a train ride.
We rejoin our heroes just as they're getting off said train at the other end of the line - Rift Station, the Binary Helix research facility set deep in the icy Noverian mountains.
"OK everyone, stay frosty..."
"Hey, that's my line!"
"Erm... yeah. So it is. Sincerest form of flattery and all? Plus here it works as a pun too, because there's ice everywhere!"
*ahem* Sorry about that. The immediate vicinity does appear to be deserted though. There are a couple of doors out. One has a sign that looks like it'd be a lab, but it's locked up tight:
The next room contains another locked door, this one with some kind of lab-on-fire sign above it:
Curiouser and curiouser. That only leaves one door/elevator, which apparently leads to some bedrooms:
"Or if one of them had started singing that damn old Kenny Rogers song about holding 'em and folding 'em. Or..."
"...I think it's just safe to say that the Commander is remarkably easy to upset, and it'd be in the best interests of both your health and Lieutenant Alenko's bank balance if we all got straight to business."
"Even hopped up on stims, my people know the rule. Two legs good, four legs bad. You're human, and that's enough that I won't shoot. But I'd like to know who you are."
"My name's First Name Redacted Because Of Gameplay Limitations Shepard. I'm a Spectre."
"The aliens overran the hot labs last week. Only Han Olar got out, and he ain't all there any more. The first we knew, the bastards were clawing into my command post. We had a lot more staff then."
Grunka has been taking posturing lessons from Wrex
"There's an emergency elevator out by the trams. This card will let you activate it. It can take you down to the hot labs. If you need any first aid, Dr Cohen's downstairs in the med bay."
"You're sure the Matriarch is still in the hot labs?"
"She hasn't come back here. You came through Central Station, so she ain't there."
The astute among you will note that's not a complete answer. Still, there's our lead - Benezia is indeed around here somewhere. To summarise the rest of the conversation, the Captain can't tell us what the company was researching but he does share Grunka's theory that it's all the fault of scientists doing dumb shit. The 'hot labs' that he suggests we check out are built deep inside a glacier, and designed so they can be superheated and sunk into the ice in an emergency.
Lots of guards have been killed by the rachni, and the ones that are left are taking a heap of stims to cope with the long shifts. Just as we're about to leave, ominous thumping noises interrupt us.
Yes, that's Kaidan shooting at the floor. The downside to this section is that it can be kind of buggy, especially when you throw biotic powers into the mix - enemies have a habit of getting stuck inside walls or, in this case, below the floor. We can't get at this second enemy, so we just pack up shop and leave. This got Ventralis really pissy at us:
"Dear gawd, this guy's an even bigger whining emo than Kaidan..."
Anywho, inside the facility we find actual people! Let's see what they're up to and if they have any good stuff to steal.
"For now, with forced cheer, I still have a limited supply of equipment to sell."
So the elcor is a merchant and he's right, he only has a very small amount of equipment to sell. Aside from a couple of licences, most of it is crap. Grunka, being a kind and considerate type, decides to solve his problem by offloading about 2.8 million credits worth of additional crap onto him before moving on - so while he'll still only have crap to sell, at least it won't be limited.
The guards have some charming stuff to say:
Maybe the asari over there knows something?
"Because I'm only her daughter, not her secretary?"
Turns out the asari is super-snarky and doesn't want to talk to us. She's a scientist that's just been transferred here and she whinges until we leave her alone. Oh - and no, she doesn't know where Benezia is.
There's a sign for a restricted area at one end of the room:
Better not go in there I guess. There's a salarian in the corner who doesn't contribute much of note. Then there's the med bay downstairs.
Predictably enough it's full of sick people.
"They're suffering from a toxin. There was an accident. I... I have a non-disclosure agreement. I shouldn't discuss it with anyone outside of the company."
"But you're going to, because I might be able to help."
"I'd like to think the company values finds our lives more valuable than their secrets."
*snorts derisively* "Unlikely. But go on."
Doctor Cohen goes on to explain that Peak 15's VI, Mira, controls the saftey protocols for experiments in the lab. When all the other shit hit the fan and Mira was shut down, it caused the lab's quarantine to fail. Because, y'know, clever scientists have never heard of the concept of failsafes. Which is bad, because they were working on a highly infections bio-weapon and like proper geniuses, they hadn't come up with an antidote yet.
"On three everyone - even you Liara, even you've got to agree this time. One, two three..."
"Scientists are always doing dumb shit."
Apparently there's notes on how to make the cure in the quarantine labs, if Ventralis will let us in there. The doctor assures us the toxin only has a limited lifespan once released and it'll be safe to go in there now. Let's see if Ventralis will play ball.
"God. I wish we could help those guys. I really do. But we can't risk contamination now."
"If we survive, your employers will want a report from me. I wonder how much insurance they have on those scientists?"
I don't even know how that's supposed to be a persuasive argument but somehow it makes Ventralis cave and he agrees to let us into the lab. Which is downstairs.
The volus survivor people have been talking about is down here too.
"Rachni? That's preposterous."
"They found it in a derelict ship. An egg. Waiting since the last battles. They brought it here..."
"We brought the rachni back from the dead. In retrospect, a bad decision."
"Well... yeah. I know you're not human, but haven't you seen Alien?!? That could've told you everything you ever needed to know about what a bad decision it was."
Old human vids aside, it turns out the volus is traumatised because he was the last one to make it out of the hot labs alive when the rachni escaped - he shut the tram doors behind him and watched others die. He uses the words "head" and "melon" in the description. He's also confirmed what our HUD has been telling us since we got here: the giant space lobsters running around the place are indeed rachni.
Now let's go make that cure.
It turns out making the cure is a super-simple minigame where you just push a button whenever the bar gets between the two arrows.
"That's it? That's literally it? These people don't deserve to be called scientists..."
...but no sooner do we finish than the asari from upstairs waltzes in. With some geth behind her.
So we have a couple of asari commandos and a couple of geth, all in a very small space. This might suck a bit, if we didn't have all these purty tech and biotic powers at our disposal...
...but we do, so very shortly afterwards the room is a great big mess and all the bad guys are dead. Plus we have our cure.
On the way out, Han Olar tells us the asari and geth came in from the maintenance area. You need a team lead's access card to get in there though. Fortunately Doctor Cohen is a team lead, and he's about to owe us a favour.
"I was ambushed in the lab you sent me to. If you set me up..."
That last bit always makes me laugh. He gives us his maintenance area pass as well as some medigel. We also get a huge Paragon score boost for having made the cure:
Now that we have a pass, and since there's pretty much nowhere else to go aside from that restricted area we saw earlier, we can go back to this maintenance area and see what's inside.
"When everyone said 'maintenance area' I assumed they meant the place where they kept the maintenance equipment. Turns out they really meant it was an area in bad need of some maintenance!"
"Hey, that was a terrible line - I can't believe we didn't hire this AD-Stu guy to write for Kaidan!"
Following a quick look at the map, it turns out the maintenance area offers us a back door into a section marked 'secure lab'.
"There - the secure lab should be right through this door."
"Yep, I'm pretty sure that's where we need to go. But let's go take a ride in that elevator in the top corner of the map first."
"Wait... why?"
"Free XP, Lieutenant. Free XP. It'll make sense in a moment."
The elevator leads to the back of the upstairs restricted area. It's full of ERCS guards, and they're now all hostile towards Grunka and her squad. Gratuitous violence ensues.
Once again, using biotics causes a few bad guys to get stuck in obscure parts of the scenery:
Eventually we end up back out in the common room, where amusingly the scientists and other NPCs just stand around while we continue our firefight with the guards.
We can even go all the way back out to the entrance, where Ventralis has also turned hostile. He's usually a pretty tough character, but something in this room has glitched and he just stands there while Grunka puts a few hundred slugs in his back.
And that's that. What we've just done, basically, is take both paths to getting into the secure lab - we just did the second one backwards. If you want you can skip the whole cure making section and just walk straight into the restricted area as soon as you arrive. The whole place turns hostile, of course, but you can skip pretty much the whole level. Or you can just walk into the secure lab after making the cure without engaging in the firefight. Doing both just maximises our XP and other gains
Now that we've got our choice of paths available, back to that lab!
*whispers* "I'm pretty sure she's talking about Liara, Commander."
"Indeed I am, human. What have you told her about me, Liara?"
"I can't believe you'd kill your own daugher."
Benezia puts us in stasis for a moment while her asari commandos rush in. They've got guns and crippling biotic powers, but fortunately, we've got countermeasures like Damping and crowd-control biotics.
Even so, they still get a few shots and powers in:
Every time you defeat a wave of commandos, Benezia summons some more and her 'power level' drops a little.
After you've killed the last wave you get to go speak with Benezia.
"I sealed a part of my mind away from the indoctrination. Saving it for a moment when I could help destroy him. It will not last long."
"So you could turn on me again?"
"Yes. But it would not be my will, Shepard. People are not themselves around Saren. You come to idolise him. Worship him. You would do anything for him."
"Even run right into hell and back?"
"Yes. He could even make you run right into a Meatloaf concert."
*shudders* "Ugh - I wouldn't do that!"
"The key is Sovereign, his flagship. It is a dreadnaught of incredible size and its power is extraordinary. It has a very powerful mass effect drive. But that is not Sovereign's true power. The longer you stay aboard, the more Saren's will seems correct. You sit at his feet and smile as his words pour into you. It is subtle at first. I thought I was strong enough to resist. Instead, I became a willing tool, eager to serve."
As an aside, for anyone who's reading this and has also read the Mass Effect: Retribution novel, note the wild inconsistencies between Benezia's experience and Paul Grayson's. The lore on this subject is such a hodge-podge that it's probably no surprise people were able to cherry pick whatever random tidbits they liked to come up with the Indoctrination Theory to explain ME3's ending...
I'll cut a wall of text short at this point: it went missing because a nearby star went supernova four thousand years ago, knocking the relay out of its home system. For pseudo-science reasons it's nigh impossible to find it now using conventional means, but at the time it ended up in a region of space that came to be inhabited by the rachni and they managed to find it. Rachni have some kind of genetic memory-passing-down system, which is why they resurrected this queen.
...and with that haphazard cut (I didn't skip any lines in that last bit, the Benezia-Liara dialog really is that disjointed) the indoctrination resumes control and we have to fight Benezia again. Which would suck, especially at this close range, if once again it weren't for Damping and all our other purty powers that completely negate Benezia's powerful biotics.
In fact, Damping makes this fight and others like it so laughably easy that I guess I can understand why it was quietly omitted from all the future games. Once we've put Benezia down again it's back to talking:
Goodnight sweet prince. With Benezia dead there's still the matter of the elephant giant space lobster in the room tank.
"We are the mother. We sing for those left behind. The children you thought silenced."
"How are you speaking through her?!?"
"She was also dead just a moment ago - telepathy is one thing, but being able to raise the dead is another entirely!"
In its roundabout poetic way, the queen then tells us that it has lost control of the 'children' it has running around the place.
"Waaaaaaaaaay ahead of you on that one queenie - glad to hear we're on the same page though. But I don't understand. Why are your children killing people?"
"These needle-men. They stole our eggs from us. They sought to turn our children into beasts of war. Claws with no songs of their own. Our elders are comfortable with silence. Children know only fear if no one sings to them. Fear has shattered their minds."
"Wow Lieutenant - you really do go from inane and stating the obvious to psycho-killer-creepy with no in between, don't you..."
What will we do indeed? Kaidan helpfully points out that there are acid tanks attached to the enclosure that we could use to kill the queen with the touch of a button. Liara, on the other hand, points out that this queen has done nothing to us, and maybe we shouldn't push the extinction button just yet. The rachni almost destroyed the whole galaxy last time they were encountered but, for what it's worth, the queen promises not to attack other races again if we free it.
So we've got what's billed as one of the biggest moral choices of the series in front of us - do we:
- Spare the queen and allow her to rebuild the rachni species, or
- Kill it and have giant space lobster for lunch
Place bets now! And as always, thanks for waiting and reading
I must say I don't know any of the lore outside of the games.
But it's rather interesting that Bioware would foul up here with inconsistencies, since they're often rather pedantic when it comes to continuity.
I think it's maybe a symptom of the fact that none of the characters in the game rightly understand how indoctrination really works either - to them it's always this weird, intangible thing that happens but they don't really know how it's done. As a result it's never really explained in Codex entries or anything, which makes sense in the context of the games.
The novels don't actually explain how it works in pseudoscience terms either. But what they do give is a detailed explanation of what happens to someone that's been indoctrinated.
From what Benezia tells us in the above encounter, indoctrination is essentially brainwashing. The indoctrinated do things because they're made to believe they're the right things to do.
Paul Grayson's experience in the novel, on the other hand, is somewhat different:
In Grayson's case, it's stated that the Reapers assume direct control over his body - almost exactly like the Harbinger Collector in ME2. Grayson is still very much himself inside his mind though, and the book describes how he's aware during the process and he's forced to watch through his own eyes as the Reapers make his body do terrible things. So there's no need to 'seal a piece of his mind away' as Benezia claims to have done, because that was never the problem in the first place. It's getting his mind to regain control over his body that's the problem.
Grayson has only been indoctrinated for a short period in the book though - I guess it's possible that over time the mind inside would be shut down or brainwashed. But either way, the description is at odds with Benezia's gradual brainwashing version of events.
Interestingly, the book also says that the Reapers have to use up quite a lot of energy getting the subject to do something, particularly if the subject is resisting mentally. IIRC at one point Grayson pretty much gets control of himself back right after the Reapers have been through a long period of exertion making him do something or other. And Grayson is a recovering red sand addict, so his mental powers should be nothing compared to Benezia's.
My point is if that's how indoctrination works then Benezia should have a pretty big mental reprieve at the time when we're talking to her - after all, the Reapers have just forced her to try to kill her own daughter, AND Shepard, who is fighting for the cause Benezia truly believed in before she was indoctrinated.
Obviously that would've ruined the pacing of this section though:
<font color=0000BB>"I have control of my own mind - for the moment. In fact the Reapers' control has been weakened by the great amount of energy they needed to expel in the battle. But beware, because in a few days they'll have regained their strength..."
[img src=http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/stu270/Mass%20Effect%20Lets%20Play/Avatars/Shepard.jpg] <font color=0000BB>"No biggie, we'll be gone by then. I can put a bullet in you now just to speed things along though if you'd like?"[/spoiler]
I guess it's possible Benezia is something of an unreliable narrator here - an issue the book doesn't have.
More likely though, I suspect the writing team were just making stuff up as they went along in the first game and, like unlimited ammo, they just decided they could retcon the stuff that needed to be retconned.
I still think your bad Kaidan line is better than 90% of his dialogue.
"That is a bird, commander."
"That is a plane, commander."
"This robot appears to be murdering me, commander."
And, I'm going to controversial, but I say off the Rachni Queen. Yes, I know, in a metagamey way, it's the clear "bad" choice, but I just think it fits more with Grunka as a character. Somehow, I don't think she would entirely buy the queen's testimony that she would just fly off to a random planet and twiddle her thumbs- er, tentacles - for a thousand years. I think she would rather not take the risk. Besides, I think she'd file Liara's dissent under "Scientists are always saying stupid shit."
Interesting thing to note is that, in my experience, one of your party members always voices that they should off the queen, and the other always votes to kill it. This can lead to a situation wherein the mildly-sorta-not-really-no-except-yes racist Ashley votes to save the queen if you bring Wrex, who always says you should kill it.
Interesting thing to note is that, in my experience, one of your party members always voices that they should off the queen, and the other always votes to kill it. This can lead to a situation wherein the mildly-sorta-not-really-no-except-yes racist Ashley votes to save the queen if you bring Wrex, who always says you should kill it.
You're right, whoever you bring with you, someone will always make the case for killing the queen and someone will make the case for saving her and that definitely results in some out-of-character lines depending on the combination of squadmates you have. I tend to think of Kaidan, Liara and Tali as our "paragon" squadmates and Wrex, Garrus and Ashley as the "renegade" ones. Bring two from the same camp (like we have here with Kaidan and Liara) and one of them has to act out of character. I'm 99% sure Kaidan is actually in favour of saving the queen if you have almost anyone else with you.
The same thing happens at other points later, like when when...
...we have to decide whether to save the Council or not
Anywho, we're tied at one vote all so far. Who else wants to have their say?
And yeah, I figure any excuse to work in some SRV is a good excuse Plus I seriously wonder if the writers were making a direct reference to the Hendrix song there - as far as I know there's never any reason given for why Benezia calls Liara that, and it seems like an othewise weird pet name to have plucked out of the air...
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