Lets talk about Iron Fist! (On Netflix)

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I'm 5 episodes in and it's definitely below average. The worst part isn't bad fighting scenes though. It's bad acting, very bad writing and too much focus on boring characters like Ward and Joy. And those two can't act at all. How did they even get past the audition is beyond me. And because the writing is so bad it makes the actomg worse because there's just no good way to convincingly deliver terrible dialogue.

but I haven't seen anything that would make me believe the show is unsalvageable.

The foundations for a good show are there. They just need to hire better writers and a decent director and stunt coordinator to improve the fighting scenes. There's plenty of potential that's being wasted. And considering the deeper narrative similarity to Daredevil, it's staggering how much better Daredevil is.

 

[King Billi]

Leaving aside criticisms with characterisation and direction It seems this series shares an problem with most of the other Netflix Marvel series, that being that it is given a set amount of episodes that it just doesn't have enough material to fill leading to it spinning its wheels or going backward. That was the most common complaint I recall hearing about Jessica Jones and Luke Cage anyway.

 

[maninahat]

Well, I watched the first two episodes, and I won't be watching anymore. It's rubbish.

To parrot the other criticisms, yes the other Netflix series all had pacing issues, and too little material to stretch out across too many episodes, but at least they could take diversions to explore an interesting perspective. We don't normally get stories about disabled superheroes, or rape survivor super heroes, or superheroes with opinions on gentrification. I think that's a big part of the reason people moan about Iron Fist having a white protagonist; we're used to Netflix Marvel finding ways to make superheroes new and interesting, and by contrast Danny looks and acts like someone left an RPG character creator on its default setting and forgot to write in a personality.

Instead, this show mostly consists of business people sitting in sterile offices, wondering out loud whether the hero is really the billionaire Danny. BOOOOORING. I'm told it picks up in the second half of the series, but I'll be damned if I'm sitting through another five hours of this to get there.

 

[Saelune]

Well, I watched the first two episodes, and I won't be watching anymore. It's rubbish.

To parrot the other criticisms, yes the other Netflix series all had pacing issues, and too little material to stretch out across too many episodes, but at least they could take diversions to explore an interesting perspective. We don't normally get stories about disabled superheroes, or rape survivor super heroes, or superheroes with opinions on gentrification. I think that's a big part of the reason people moan about Iron Fist having a white protagonist; we're used to Netflix Marvel finding ways to make superheroes new and interesting, and by contrast Danny looks and acts like someone left an RPG character creator on its default setting and forgot to write in a personality.

Instead, this show mostly consists of business people sitting in sterile offices, wondering out loud whether the hero is really the billionaire Danny. BOOOOORING. I'm told it picks up in the second half of the series, but I'll be damned if I'm sitting through another five hours of this to get there.

How bout 2 more? Most of the show isnt Danny trying to prove he is Danny, so ya know.

 

[Majestic Manatee_v1legacy]

Watched the last episode yesterday. No, sorry, I wanted to like it, really, friends of mine do and I prefer to enjoy things together with them. Some good actors involved also. but it's just too shallow, predictable, terrible action, uninteresting power, bad editing, bad shots, unimpressive acting...It's the whole lucky bag of low quality television. Every scene was making me roll my eyes and thinking of better ways of portraying what they were going for. It's unfortunate. Want to see Jessica Jones, maybe that will restore faith in serialised super heroes. Maybe I've been spoiled by breaking bad and other shows, but even expecting a lower quality going in it didn't meet an acceptable/passable level of immersion.

 

[Solkard]

Every time I see the guy who plays Darvos, I think Manmeet!

The show is not very good and the portrayal of Rand makes him look more like a bipolar schizophrenic suffering PTSD seizures, than someone who has attained reverse-hulk powers that only work when he doesn't get angry.

Given what a whiny emo ***** he is, I'm surprised that he WON the right to become the Iron Fist in the first place. Holy crap that bar must be set low.

 

[Parasondox]

A torture watch for me.

 

[happyninja42]

It's not fair. It's not fucking fair.

Spoiler

They had Misty in Luke Cage, she is in the setting, she left the force when that was over. Why? Why do this to us?

Well considering what the Hand Lady says to Colleen when they had her tied up, about "not being the one for him", I get the feeling that they are planning on him hooking up with someone else later, and she's just a "pop his cherry and die to give him a grief complex" kind of character.

Haven't finished the series yet...because it's very painful to get through at this point, but that's my theory.

Positive note, god I love Ward. His scenery chewing, decent into madness performance is incredibly enjoyable to watch. I want more of him.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

The only thing I really had a problem with was Danny's personality. He is like an immature little kid. It's not like he went into a coma when he was 12 and woke up as an adult, he was raised in a monastery. But I keep expecting him to say things like "Shut up! Your face is stupid! I know you are but what am I". Honestly, I think he might even be a little immature for the age he was during the plane crash.

 

[xaszatm]

I finished watching this and I am not a fan.

Ok, why am I supposed to root for Danny Rand here? He acts like an entitled white kid. Thinking it is his right to have all of the rights but none of the responsibilities. He runs away from his duties as an Iron Fist, demands to be brought back into a company his father built because...his father built it despite knowing nothing about business than promptly runs away from that as well, constantly takes advantage of his friends in addition to being a prick, constantly in a state of petulant whining, etc. Again, why am I supposed to root for him? Davos is right, he's the worst Iron Fist ever.

And even with he pretend to ignore the main character of this series, it doesn't stop all of the other problems with this series. There is a severe lack of focus in this series. We go from Ward to Gao to Bakuto to Harold and it is very disjointed. The Rand business plot and the Hand plot are too separate despite the fact that, for some reason, everyone wants control of Rand Enterprises. There are very few good characters in this series as well. Only Ward is decent enough to stand out among the new members. Hell, if it wasn't for the fact she dominates the scene in Daredevil, I would assume the only reason Gao stands out here is because of how muted everyone else is.

 

[Parasondox]

I dislike Danny Rand more than I dislike Nathan Drake. I mean really really haaaaaaaaaaaate this character. He's meant to be this great fighter who has trained for 15 years? Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Oh and news of Finn Jones only have 15mins to learn the moves before the scene was shot just shows who ever is running the show needs to leave. That's​ poor production.

 

[Ravenbom]

Right now, I'm halfway through Iron Fist.

You know, I could get over a show hiring someone who doesn?t know any martial arts because of his acting ability. Or even hiring someone because they have the right look. Or sometimes, there?s that certain je-ne-sais-quoi where that person has a compelling presence.
Finn Jones has none of that.

At the very least, they could have hired someone who can fight. Or people that can direct action. The best fight scene so far was the episode RZA directed with the Game of Death style action.

Even if Finn Jones can?t fight, they have a tight budget, shooting schedule and poor fight choreographer? they could have switched to handheld moving cameras up close like Paul Greengrass did in the Bourne films, or like Nolan did in Batman Begins.
Instead, despite the director, in episode 1 and 6 they move to the overhead cameras for the more complex fight moves. Presumably to cover the fact that an average stunt man is fighting, not Finn Jones.
So by zooming out from the action it makes it a lot less intense than it could be. And they keep doing it even when there?s a different director.

I thought Finn Jones was fine in his few minutes of screen time in Game of Thrones so I still think the big problem was the script. Great fights could have helped it, instead it just exacerbated the flaws in the show.

Also. I wouldn?t have minded a tone shift. Daredevil and Jessica Jones needed to be dark because of the underlying subject matter, Catholic guilt and mind-rape, but Iron Fist could have been a great fish out of water story. Little moments like eating a hamburger or mac and cheese or having a Squeeze-It (because he was a kid when his plane crashed) for the first time in 15 years would have made me happy.

It made me realize that the Netflix shows are the Batman V Superman of the extended MCU. So unrelentingly dour. 4 dour, depressed super heroes band together in Defenders. yay?

 

[Kyrian007]

Right now, I'm halfway through Iron Fist.

I thought Finn Jones was fine in his few minutes of screen time in Game of Thrones so I still think the big problem was the script. Great fights could have helped it, instead it just exacerbated the flaws in the show.

Also. I wouldn?t have minded a tone shift. Daredevil and Jessica Jones needed to be dark because of the underlying subject matter, Catholic guilt and mind-rape, but Iron Fist could have been a great fish out of water story. Little moments like eating a hamburger or mac and cheese or having a Squeeze-It (because he was a kid when his plane crashed) for the first time in 15 years would have made me happy.

I could not agree more on these points. If anything, Danny needs to be the Hero for Hire that brings the comedy. He's not quips and jokes all the time like Spiderman, but in comics and in appearances in earlier TV he generally seems to be depicted as overcompensating for all those years as basically a monk and winds up being kind of a wiseass. Which they could have done a better job bringing across and is in conflict with the general tone.

It made me realize that the Netflix shows are the Batman V Superman of the extended MCU. So unrelentingly dour. 4 dour, depressed super heroes band together in Defenders. yay?

Whoa, ouch. I wouldn't say things are that bad. DD and Jessica Jones made me laugh a time or 2. IF... ok didn't, but it wasn't Snyder levels of grimdark.

Even if Finn Jones can't fight, they have a tight budget, shooting schedule and poor fight choreographer? they could have switched to handheld moving cameras up close like Paul Greengrass did in the Bourne films, or like Nolan did in Batman Begins.

No, please no. If they need Greengrass style shaky-cam to cover up the bad action sequences... like Snyder did with Man of Steel and a lot of BvS... just no. I hated that worse in MoS than I did the overdark tone. The Russos are already destroying the later MCU movies' action scenes with that garbage. Better to just not have fight scenes than have shaky-cam blur fests. Better to get the directors to Kubrick a scene with hundreds of takes until it looks right than to ugly up a shot with shaky-cam.

 

[Zontar]

I Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Yeah but to be blunt those are two characters where even with the use of his Iron Fist it should be up for debate who would win.

It made me realize that the Netflix shows are the Batman V Superman of the extended MCU. So unrelentingly dour. 4 dour, depressed super heroes band together in Defenders. yay?

Hey man, they may have been dark (in the case of DD and LC literally due to how much was filmed at night) but for what they are they aren't anywhere near bad save for Iron Fist being the weakest. DD is one of the best shows of the past few years and pretty much the only example of a modern Noir done right, Jessica Jones is a decent drama even if it does outstay its welcome a bit, Luke Cage is a pretty good 70s style blackspoitation homage and Iron Fist, well it's better then the crap on the CW and has delightfully scene chewing bad guys (you can't win them all).

Let's not go so far as to say that this is DCEU level. Even at its worst MCUNetflix is better then the DCEU at its best.

 

[rosac]

I actually really enjoyed it, but then I'm a massive fan of iron fist so...

I enjoyed the majority of the fights, the drunken master being a particular favourite (plz come back) but some suffered by slowing down the pace presumably due to the actors lack of fight expertise (tournament final fight, although this did introduce another immortal weapon to the story even if she's uncredited)

The power levels were pretty inconsistant but there are slim reason behind them in my mind (truck fight was on a moving truck against a guy who's armed in an enclosed space. Have fun with your martial arts)

However I loved that it provided a bit more depth to the hand rather than the "lol, ninjas" I got from the 2nd part of daredevil season 2. There are different fingers of the hand vying for power in different ways - through drugs, through an army etc.

My main concerns involved davos. Because 1. His background is totally different, meaning Wendall Rand did not come to Kun-Lun. Instead we get the best friend background. 2. He mentioned that no other outsider has been the iron fist which means no orson randall/gun fu.3.how the fuck is he going to become his comic book self with no kun lun?

EDIT- Holy shit the drunken master is actually Zhou Cheng omg omg omg yasssss

 

[Parasondox]

I Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Yeah but to be blunt those are two characters where even with the use of his Iron Fist it should be up for debate who would win.

Let's open that up. Who do you think would win or do you think, from the series alone not comic books, is better trained, shown more skill and would win in a fight better the two?

 

[Zontar]

I Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Yeah but to be blunt those are two characters where even with the use of his Iron Fist it should be up for debate who would win.

Let's open that up. Who do you think would win or do you think, from the series alone not comic books, is better trained, shown more skill and would win in a fight better the two?

Without the use of Iron Fist? DareDevil hands down, he had Stick to train him and teach him how to use this senses to their full abilities which the monks did not do for Danny.

 

[Parasondox]

I Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Yeah but to be blunt those are two characters where even with the use of his Iron Fist it should be up for debate who would win.

Let's open that up. Who do you think would win or do you think, from the series alone not comic books, is better trained, shown more skill and would win in a fight better the two?

Without the use of Iron Fist? DareDevil hands down, he had Stick to train him and teach him how to use this senses to their full abilities which the monks did not do for Danny.

I agree but for 15 years what has those monks been teaching him? 15 years should have given him loads of experience. Maybe not as Iron Fist but before his trial.

 

[Zontar]

I Without his iron fist, DareDevil can take him apart.

Yeah but to be blunt those are two characters where even with the use of his Iron Fist it should be up for debate who would win.

Let's open that up. Who do you think would win or do you think, from the series alone not comic books, is better trained, shown more skill and would win in a fight better the two?

Without the use of Iron Fist? DareDevil hands down, he had Stick to train him and teach him how to use this senses to their full abilities which the monks did not do for Danny.

I agree but for 15 years what has those monks been teaching him? 15 years should have given him loads of experience. Maybe not as Iron Fist but before his trial.

True but it's not just the training, DD is a superior fighter because of how finely tuned his senses are.

 

[TheFinish]

I sort of liked it but the more I think about it, the less I do. And everything about what I don't like has to do with the Hand. Not only are the Netflix Hand super damn bland and uninteresting, but making Iron Fist's sole purpose to defend K'un-Lun from them is so idiotic I can't even.....I mean why would one of the Seven Cities of Heaven, which is thousands upon thousands of years old AND it appears on the himalayas in mainland china only once every fifteen years AND it's full of kung fu super monks (Lei Kung is a force of nature by himself, and lets not even talk about Yu-Ti) care about some bloody ninjas from feudal japan. I just hate how they shoehorned them in just for the Defenders, when there were so many better ways tying Iron Fist into them than what they did.

I also don't much like how they did Davos, but I'm willing to give him a pass because I dearly want Steel Serpent to show up.

Fight choreography could also be better. Danny Rand is supposed to be hands down the best martial artist in the marvel universe (well, tied with Shang Chi), and it doesn't show.

TL;DR - My main gripe is how they gutted/changed the IF mythos to make way for the Defenders team-up. I just hope the Defenders is worth it.