Let's talk about Sonic

[Matthew Jabour]

Look, guys! Just one thread covering all of the games! Are you happy now?

Anyway, this thread is for all things Sonic; however, if I may make a suggestion, I would like to divert the conversation in these particular directions:

A: Modern Sonic vs. Classic Sonic, and the pros and cons thereof.
B: Which Sonic games have gotten a far worse reputation than they deserve.
C: Which characters in the Sonic series actually deserve to exist, and you would like to see more of in future Sonic games.
D: The Sonic fanbase, and how their opinions differ from, say, yours.

Have fun.

 

[SweetShark]

So you just confessed that you created a "playground" to see the fans of the Sonic series and the haters to get slaughtered and angry for your enjoyment.

Plus you have Kraotos for Avatar....

I smell a trap people!!!!! STAND BACK!!!!

 

[CAPTCHA]

Surely this sort of thing would work better as a user group. OP, why don't you create one, or search for an existing one.

 

[scorptatious]

A. I kinda prefer Modern Sonic. Most likely because the Sonic Adventure games were how I really got into Sonic. Especially SA2 Battle.

B. A lot of Sonic purists, at least from what I've seen, hate the Adventure games. Which I can kinda understand, but I liked them.

C. Hmm... Well it would probably be easier if I talk about the characters who shouldn't be in further games. Like say... Team Chaotix. From what I've seen, they've never really done much in the games they were in. They always felt kinda pointless to me.

D. A lot of the old school Sonic fanbase seems to have every Sonic game starting with SA1. I got into Sonic via the Adventure games. So I sorta have a different view on them then they do. SA2 Battle in particular is probably my favorite in the entire series.

I've also seen some people (like AKnotHoleResident) who just absolutely despise the design of Modern Sonic. To the point of ranting about how Sonic doesn't have black eyes after watching the trailer to Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Which I think is kinda silly to be honest.

I will agree though that Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 were terrible though. The former for having a stupid overall concept, the latter for being an absolute waste of potential. (Among other things)

 

[Soxafloppin]

A: I prefer modern because of the adventure series.

B: I personaly liked Sonic 3D, dispite it being pretty far removed from the series, I liked Sonic R too!

C: Tails and Knuckles...If they could do a game that played like the 3D sections of Generations, with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles playable, with Tails and Knuckles keeping the same sense of speed as Sonics levels, but Tails envolving flying sections, and Knuckles involving Gliding and Combat(not really sure how it could be down without slowing down too much, im sure theres a way though!)

D: The Sonic fanbase would probably disagree with my answers A-C

 

[Ljs1121]

I'm not a huge fan of Sonic (mainly because I'm absolutely terrible at it), but I would have to give the Adventure games a slight preference over the older ones. If for no other reason than simply because I've played them more.

Also, I really like Shadow. Not sure why, but I just do.

 

[Maxtro]

Sonic Generations was a good step in the right direction.

 

[Innegativeion]

Loved Adventure 2. Adventure is alright.

The original 2d games are good, but I prefer Adventure 2. Generations is nearly as good as SA2, and save for a lackluster final boss and overall plot, is a great game overall.

Sonic's universe is saturated with useless characters, and I've found the ever more realistic world they're being dropped in to (except for the latest two titles colors and generations) rather jarring.

 

[Fuzzed]

This topic would have been relevant in 1995

 

[scorptatious]

Sonic Generations was a good step in the right direction.

Generations is nearly as good as SA2, and save for a lackluster final boss and overall plot, is a great game overall.

I've just played and beaten Sonic Generations for the first time and yes, it was a really good game. Absolutely loved playing as two different Sonics, the various remixes of different tracks are awesome, and the boss fights (save for the last one) were just amazing. It was nice to play a good Sonic game after taking a six year hiatus from the series thanks to Sonic 06.

 

[DeltaEdge]

A.) Hm, I'd say that I prefer the modern sonic to classic sonic, mainly because I grew up playing Sonic Adventure 1. I played the old ones occasionally, but I did not play them enough to become attached to them, and now I find it difficult to even play the old sonic games. They really feel like kind of a chore to me. Also, contrary popular opinion, I did not like SA2. IMO the only good things about SA2 were City Escape, and the Chao Garden.

B.) I think for the most part, the Sonic games have gotten about the right reputation. I do think, that the old ones get a wee bit too much credit though. Screw flame shields, I'm lazy so I will just get fried to a crisp.

C.) I really only care about Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and I guess Amy is okay. Everyone else can stay or go, but I don't really care for them much. Edit Oh, and how could I forget Gamma. I really liked Gamma, too bad he's dead...

D.) I'd say my opinions are in polar contrast to the Sonic Fanbase, as I am addicted to Sonic Adventure, I didn't like Sonic Adventure 2, and I don't really care for the original 2D Sonic games, but I did, however, enjoy the Sonic Advanced series. Also loved Generations, and I have yet to play Colors, but I think I would like it a lot.

 

[Full]

A: Don't make me choose, you monster! Eh, I'll go with Modern, because I grew up with the Adventure series. However Sonic 2 is not ruled out!

B: Sonic Chronicles, because I don't think anyone even knows what that is. How Knuckles got kidnapped like that though, Iunno.

C: Tails and Knuckles are the two obvious ones, they're both good even for just the nostalgia factor (and because the main three bounce off each other really well). If they cleaned up Shadow a little bit, I'd love him, but now he's just kinda "eh, I'm not sure". However I think most of them should stay. Besides that one weird pig thing. And that wolf thing. And that crow.

 

[saintdane05]

A. I like modern. As much fun as Classic is, Modern feels like it can change up more often and provide more variety.
B. Shadow the Hedgehog. All the developers needed was a more linear game with a radar, and we would be fine. And get rid of The Doom.
C. Sonic, Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, Rouge, Cream/Cheese, Blaze, Espio, Sally, Amy, Eggman, Gerald, Maria. Scratch and Grounder, though...
<youtube=TFQ0-CJ0shg>
Should burn in hell.
D. I like Sonic nad the Black Knight.

 

[shrekfan246]

A. I kinda prefer Modern Sonic. Most likely because the Sonic Adventure games were how I really got into Sonic. Especially SA2 Battle.

B. A lot of Sonic purists, at least from what I've seen, hate the Adventure games. Which I can kinda understand, but I liked them.

C. Hmm... Well it would probably be easier if I talk about the characters who shouldn't be in further games. Like say... Team Chaotix. From what I've seen, they've never really done much in the games they were in. They always felt kinda pointless to me.

D. A lot of the old school Sonic fanbase seems to have every Sonic game starting with SA1. I got into Sonic via the Adventure games. So I sorta have a different view on them then they do. SA2 Battle in particular is probably my favorite in the entire series.

I've also seen some people (like AKnotHoleResident) who just absolutely despise the design of Modern Sonic. To the point of ranting about how Sonic doesn't have black eyes after watching the trailer to Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Which I think is kinda silly to be honest.

I will agree though that Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 were terrible though. The former for having a stupid overall concept, the latter for being an absolute waste of potential. (Among other things)

You know, I have great memories of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle from when I was growing up, but I played it again on the PC a few days ago and... really, the only truly good parts of the game are Sonic/Shadow levels and the Chao Garden. And the Chao Garden is kind of only good in that Pokemon-addictive way. The Robotnik/Tails levels aren't necessarily bad but feel out of place in a Sonic game (same complaint I have for E-102 in Adventure), and the Knuckles/Rouge treasure hunting is just... ugh...

Anyway.

A) After Colors and Generations, I'd really have to say I'm liking the direction Modern Sonic is taking. I just hope Sonic Team doesn't fuck it up again.

B) Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed. Sonic Heroes tried to do a little too much, but it still (mostly) worked and it had very nice, widely varied environments as well as an interesting new take on the gameplay in the form of the three-person team that all had their own strengths. Sonic Unleashed, at least on the PS3, had massive performance issues and some pretty downright terrible level design, but the Daytime stages paved the way for Colors and Generations, and for that I have to admire it a little bit.

C) I've always liked Shadow, who seems to be one of the main focal points for the schism between "good/bad" Sonic characters. Other than that, the entire franchise has always been marred by characters with amazing designs but terrible writing, because let's be honest here, Sega and Sonic Team couldn't write a well-written Sonic story if they had goddamn J. R. R. Tolkien on their pay-staff.

D) Well, I seem to be one of the few people who has always liked the games, from the first Genesis (Megadrive for you Europeans) game all the way through Generations and 4: Episode II. There are ones along the way that I don't particularly like, but as far as the main series games are concerned, I've genuinely enjoyed all of them excluding Sonic '06 (which still had its moments every now and then).

 

[Ironbat92]

Well, lets see:
A) I still prefer 2-D Sonic, but the recent Sonic games(Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations) were very fun.
B) Sonic and the Secret Rings, I feel, was breath of fresh air from that one game that shall not be mentioned. Yes, the controls had a learning curve and some of the challenges could get annoying, but it was fast, colorful, and controlled well, once you got use to the controls. I also like the RPG mechanics, giving the title some replay value.
C) The only ones that deserve to exist are Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Dr. Eggman, maybe Amy(since the hero in a cartoony world needs to save the girl) Everyone can just jump into a burning forest.
D) Sonic fans are still one of the most annoying fans around. Arguing about the Voice Acting and the Character model for their hero, rather than the actual quality of the games.

 

[scorptatious]

A. I kinda prefer Modern Sonic. Most likely because the Sonic Adventure games were how I really got into Sonic. Especially SA2 Battle.

B. A lot of Sonic purists, at least from what I've seen, hate the Adventure games. Which I can kinda understand, but I liked them.

C. Hmm... Well it would probably be easier if I talk about the characters who shouldn't be in further games. Like say... Team Chaotix. From what I've seen, they've never really done much in the games they were in. They always felt kinda pointless to me.

D. A lot of the old school Sonic fanbase seems to have every Sonic game starting with SA1. I got into Sonic via the Adventure games. So I sorta have a different view on them then they do. SA2 Battle in particular is probably my favorite in the entire series.

I've also seen some people (like AKnotHoleResident) who just absolutely despise the design of Modern Sonic. To the point of ranting about how Sonic doesn't have black eyes after watching the trailer to Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Which I think is kinda silly to be honest.

I will agree though that Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 were terrible though. The former for having a stupid overall concept, the latter for being an absolute waste of potential. (Among other things)

You know, I have great memories of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle from when I was growing up, but I played it again on the PC a few days ago and... really, the only truly good parts of the game are Sonic/Shadow levels and the Chao Garden. And the Chao Garden is kind of only good in that Pokemon-addictive way. The Robotnik/Tails levels aren't necessarily bad but feel out of place in a Sonic game (same complaint I have for E-102 in Adventure), and the Knuckles/Rouge treasure hunting is just... ugh...

Looking back, I do remember spending a pretty long time in Rouge's last level in the Dark Story and getting pretty frustrated. :/

And I can see why you would say the Tails/Robotnik levels would be out of place in a Sonic game.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Spoiler: A: Modern Sonic vs. Classic Sonic, and the pros and cons thereof

I'm specifically going over in-game hedgehogs only.

Modern Sonic
Pros:
*New set of moves (Homing Attack, Lightspeed Dash & Attack, Boost, Grinding, and Side Stepping)
*Can speak (most of his dialogue is not horrible)
*Can reach Sonic's top speed, allowing players to truly experience what it's like to be Sonic
*When hit, does not lose all rings
*Is taller and slimmer, noting Sonic's maturity over the years (despite being the same age)
Cons:
*His Boost ability makes the Spin Dash and Spin Attack obsolete
*Spin Dash is virtually uncontrollable
*Requires energy to perform Boost
*Prone to hit things, loosing all momentum, or falling off the path, losing a life
*Dialogue can be a little corny sometimes
*His voice has gone through several actors, some good and some bad
*He appeared in the classic Sonic numeration series (Sonic 4), which was not favored by many

Classic Sonic
Pros:
*Can perform the Spin Attack, Spin Dash, and other abilities with the aid of shields (Deflect small projectiles, Protection from single damaging hits, Fire Resistance & Fire Boost Attack, Breathe Underwater & Bounce Attack, and Lightning Resistance, Ring Magnet, & Double Jump)
*Spin Attack is a more effective means of travel, providing protection from enemies, an increase in speed, and propelling in the air to otherwise unreachable areas
*Not always at top speed, which encourages exploration and alternate paths
*His look changes slightly with each title, but his initial design retains its integrity

Cons:
*One hit causes him to loose all his rings, regardless of the amount
*Is sometimes overlooked due to his lack of skills (i.e. by Tails and Knuckles)

Spoiler: B: Which Sonic games have gotten a far worse reputation than they deserve.

Sonic Unleashed
I will admit, the Night time Werehog Stages were bad, long, and tedious, where cheap deaths were abundant and getting a good rating meant having to replay stages and not die once. It basically made Sonic Unleashed into two games: a fast paced, near perfect modernization of a Sonic title in the Next Gen consoles and a generic hack-and-slash with too familiar gaming mechanics and controls akin to another, more popular and successful title, which provided hours of frustrating gameplay, all for the sake of "mixing up" the Sonic formula.

I tend to disregard the Werehog stages and focus only on the Sonic stages, which provided us with a firm foundation for future great Sonic titles.

Sonic Chronicles: Dark Brotherhood

The first Sonic RPG introduced a lot of new elements to the series, such as an engrossing story, turn-base fighting, quick time combat events, and some new and interesting characters. Despite speed and platforming taking a back seat, you were able to explore previously unreachable areas with the aid of your new allies and acquire secret items that would benefit you in the fights ahead. It had you teaming up with friends and foes alike, as well as challenging gameplay that was always engaging and rewarding once you got the hang of it.

Despite it having an obvious cliffhanger, no news on a sequel has been revealed. It would be great to have a continuation of the series, or at least a spiritual successor in the near future.

Sonic Spinball
Essentially classified as "not furn for pinball fans or Sonic fans," I had fun none the less. If this game was such a travesty, why was its gaming mechanics returned in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Generation.

I'm not really hoping for any new titles to appear, but I'm glad that they still show up in certain games from time to time.

Spoiler: C: Which characters in the Sonic series actually deserve to exist, and you would like to see more of in future Sonic games.

Honestly, all of Sonic's friends/enemies exist for the sake of a game plot or gameplay elements, so for them to not having to exist would mean that the game that they were attributed with should have existed either. In all fairness, despite having a large roster of characters, Sega tends to only focus on a few fan favorites or essential characters, while other are rarely mentioned outside their respective games (i.e. Big the Cat, Marine, etc.).

I would like to see more characters appear in a future Sonic Chronicles title, as they could provide multiple story arcs, as well as allies to take with you into battle (i.e Team Chaotix, Blaze, Silver, Marine, Classic Sonic, etc.). Maybe a new Sonic Heroes including Team Blaze (Blaze as Speed, Silver as Fly, and Marine as Power) could be created as well. Also, Team Chaotix can star in their own tactical strategy RPG/stealth mystery game (wow, that's a lot of genres) where Team Chaotix would solve mysteries by stealthily infiltrating zones (Espio) while other members provide distractions through force (Vector) or sabotage (Charmy).

It's not like I like Team Chaotix or anything, but I feel like they can take the series in a new direction, without having the risk of ruining Sonic's good name and reputation.

Spoiler: D: The Sonic fanbase, and how their opinions differ from, say, yours.

There are only two kinds of fans: fans and fanboys. Fans love Sonic as much as fanboys, but unlike fanboys, they can also look at Sonic and his related titles objectively, criticize it, and determine whether or not this is taking the series in a good direction. Fanboys tend to accept anything that the Blue Blur comes out in and whatever Sega throws at them, regardless of whether it is good or bad. They believe that by accepting anything that Sega publishes about Sonic they are helping Sonic thrive and continue to retain and further gain popularity. However, this is wrong; if fans demand only the best of their beloved franchise we can avoid further Storybook titles and radical and unappealing changes to the Sonic formula (Sonic '06, Labyrinth, Werehog, etc.).

I am proud to say that I am a Sonic fan and will continue to support, as well as criticize, Sega's work to ensure that we get Sonic at his best and no less.

 

[Rooster893]

A: Modern Sonic vs. Classic Sonic, and the pros and cons thereof.

I believe that Modern Sonic is headed in a great direction right now. Sonic Team should definitely keep going forward.

B: Which Sonic games have gotten a far worse reputation than they deserve.

I actually enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog a lot.

C: Which characters in the Sonic series actually deserve to exist, and you would like to see more of in future Sonic games.

I actually like a lot of them; the only one I dislike is Big the Cat. Seriously though. He's dumb.

D: The Sonic fanbase, and how their opinions differ from, say, yours.

It's hard to tell. We agree on a lot, and yet we don't.

 

[shrekfan246]

Looking back, I do remember spending a pretty long time in Rouge's last level in the Dark Story and getting pretty frustrated. :/

And I guess I can see why one would believe the Tails/Robotnik levels would be out of place in a Sonic game.

I still think it's a good game, overall, because I'd really only call the treasure hunting expressly bad, but going through the story to unlock the stages for free-play is a massive pain because of the way they pace the different stages (and the fact that Shadow only has four stages, and Sonic only has something like four or five).

And then trying to get all 180 emblems and full A-ranks if you want to unlock Green Hill means you'll be spending a loooooooot of time doing those treasure hunting missions... that's for crazy completionists, though.

 

[scorptatious]

Looking back, I do remember spending a pretty long time in Rouge's last level in the Dark Story and getting pretty frustrated. :/

And I guess I can see why one would believe the Tails/Robotnik levels would be out of place in a Sonic game.

I still think it's a good game, overall, because I'd really only call the treasure hunting expressly bad, but going through the story to unlock the stages for free-play is a massive pain because of the way they pace the different stages (and the fact that Shadow only has four stages, and Sonic only has something like four or five).

And then trying to get all 180 emblems and full A-ranks if you want to unlock Green Hill means you'll be spending a loooooooot of time doing those treasure hunting missions... that's for crazy completionists, though.

I've heard about this Green Hill level in SA2, but I never really went out of my way to fully complete the game in order to get it. All I usually did was either spend time in the Chao garden or constantly replay certain levels just for the hell of it.