LGBT topics in Video Games
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Of course not! Anyhow,
I don't think that is what they want, let alone that that is how it should be handled. The main goal of a game is (often) to tell a good story. If it involves LBGT issues as one of its theme, fine with me, and with many others I am sure. But it's hard to have a game where LBGT issues are the very raison d'être, or at least, to make it a compelling one without seeming overtly preachy.chronobreak said:
Mostly, we are talking about RPG's that I've noticed, however "alphabet soup" (earlier I saw someone start in with the LGBTQQIU...didn't even get started good by the way, and LGBT generally covers it all for simplicity's sake) has permeated gaming since the '80's with not one, but two transwomen still in gaming today, Birdo and Poison, which is kind of odd art imitating life, but if you know anything about Civil Rights around Sexuality and Gender Orientation, you probably know that, or well, you should, but we're not talking about rights...we're talking about topics.
So, right there, you have a beat'em up/fighter and a platformer with two LGBT characters who are found throughout both games. Since then though, LGBT characters have found their way into numerous games, but three companies have stood out as actually being able to do something good with it; Bioware (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age), Square Enix (Final Fantasy Series, mostly, though a few others), and Atlus (Shin Megami Tensei series, specifically, Persona 4).
I'm not big on spoilers, so I'm not really going to explain all of these, but if I slip into spoiler territory, here's your warning.
I think Knights of the Old Republic was the first of these I noticed (mostly because my RPG experiences beforehand were Pokemon and Zelda, and while Tingle is running around in Rosy Rupeeland, there's really not much in either of those). The character of Juhani is just a character. Nothing really different about her. She's quiet, she keeps to herself, she's had a turgid past, but she wants to do right in the world (I played as a Jedi and not Sith, so, yeah). As you get to know her though, especially when playing as a female, you learn pretty late in the game that the reason she joined the Jedi order, and the reason she let her emotions get the better of her with her master, was that she basically had a crush on a Jedi Knight off to war...a female one at that. It's implied that after the game, she went off with the other Jedi who is perpetually worried about her.
I'm gonna stay away from the Atlus games in general, just because I've only played through a few of them, and then only just the one time, and go into Squenix territory.
Squaresoft was an interesting company over its span as its own entity...and when talking about LGBT topics in gaming, they're flagship series is the easiest place to look. Even after the merger with Enix, the company has continued to include LGBT characters and situations in their stories. So, let's just run down the FF Games LGBT stuff, as it's one of the top series in gaming period.
FFIII - Arc...not much else to stay there, as nothing was ever touched on it, and it's mostly speculative, but yeah, even if he wasn't meant to be, he certainly comes off as such. Also, since Arc didn't really exist as his own character until the remake, this may should find its way deeper on this list, but oh well.
FFV - Princess Sarah in this one was quite a bit different than her previous incarnations (FFI, FFIII). In this version, his name is Faris Scherwiz. And that's just the beginning. Faris is a pirate captain, and for the first five hours of the game, that's all you know about him. Get a little deeper, you find out that he is a she, and not that as the game progresses, but that she's a Princess. Whether or not Faris is transgender is up to debate, as the game continually keeps pronouns about the character pretty neutral, and that at the end, she does run off to join her crew after becoming bored with the throne.
FFVII - Situation Cross Dressing, and we're leaving it at that...because, swarms of fangirls scare even me...and I'm one of them...just not for him. Oh, and the gym owner that helps him, definitely.
FFVIII - It's there, but more for humors sake than anything else, with a brief cameo by a trans NPC.
FFIX - Quina Quen and Vivi; the young black mage and his potential love interest, the genderless Qu, Quina raise a lot of questions about Androgyny and Pansexuality, so, yeah.
FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.
So, LGBT Topics are there, maybe even more so than film (how many LGBT Topics do you see in film where it's not actually a gay film?). Would it be better if there were more...maybe...though, they are found fairly frequently in games today. The issue is more that, with all characters, regardless of age, race, sexuality, gender, gender identity, or religion, they still need to be fully fleshed out in a lot of ways across the board. Sadly, RPG's seem to be the only thing really trying to do that lately, but we do still see a few things here and there.
So, right there, you have a beat'em up/fighter and a platformer with two LGBT characters who are found throughout both games. Since then though, LGBT characters have found their way into numerous games, but three companies have stood out as actually being able to do something good with it; Bioware (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age), Square Enix (Final Fantasy Series, mostly, though a few others), and Atlus (Shin Megami Tensei series, specifically, Persona 4).
I'm not big on spoilers, so I'm not really going to explain all of these, but if I slip into spoiler territory, here's your warning.
I think Knights of the Old Republic was the first of these I noticed (mostly because my RPG experiences beforehand were Pokemon and Zelda, and while Tingle is running around in Rosy Rupeeland, there's really not much in either of those). The character of Juhani is just a character. Nothing really different about her. She's quiet, she keeps to herself, she's had a turgid past, but she wants to do right in the world (I played as a Jedi and not Sith, so, yeah). As you get to know her though, especially when playing as a female, you learn pretty late in the game that the reason she joined the Jedi order, and the reason she let her emotions get the better of her with her master, was that she basically had a crush on a Jedi Knight off to war...a female one at that. It's implied that after the game, she went off with the other Jedi who is perpetually worried about her.
I'm gonna stay away from the Atlus games in general, just because I've only played through a few of them, and then only just the one time, and go into Squenix territory.
Squaresoft was an interesting company over its span as its own entity...and when talking about LGBT topics in gaming, they're flagship series is the easiest place to look. Even after the merger with Enix, the company has continued to include LGBT characters and situations in their stories. So, let's just run down the FF Games LGBT stuff, as it's one of the top series in gaming period.
FFIII - Arc...not much else to stay there, as nothing was ever touched on it, and it's mostly speculative, but yeah, even if he wasn't meant to be, he certainly comes off as such. Also, since Arc didn't really exist as his own character until the remake, this may should find its way deeper on this list, but oh well.
FFV - Princess Sarah in this one was quite a bit different than her previous incarnations (FFI, FFIII). In this version, his name is Faris Scherwiz. And that's just the beginning. Faris is a pirate captain, and for the first five hours of the game, that's all you know about him. Get a little deeper, you find out that he is a she, and not that as the game progresses, but that she's a Princess. Whether or not Faris is transgender is up to debate, as the game continually keeps pronouns about the character pretty neutral, and that at the end, she does run off to join her crew after becoming bored with the throne.
FFVII - Situation Cross Dressing, and we're leaving it at that...because, swarms of fangirls scare even me...and I'm one of them...just not for him. Oh, and the gym owner that helps him, definitely.
FFVIII - It's there, but more for humors sake than anything else, with a brief cameo by a trans NPC.
FFIX - Quina Quen and Vivi; the young black mage and his potential love interest, the genderless Qu, Quina raise a lot of questions about Androgyny and Pansexuality, so, yeah.
FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.
So, LGBT Topics are there, maybe even more so than film (how many LGBT Topics do you see in film where it's not actually a gay film?). Would it be better if there were more...maybe...though, they are found fairly frequently in games today. The issue is more that, with all characters, regardless of age, race, sexuality, gender, gender identity, or religion, they still need to be fully fleshed out in a lot of ways across the board. Sadly, RPG's seem to be the only thing really trying to do that lately, but we do still see a few things here and there.
LGBT topics should be explored meaningfully in a game like GTA. It's a bit less suitable in mass effect where it's half-assed and gratuitous. Gay tony didn't merely exist for a sex minigame. Fallout New Vegas had a lot of gay characters but the issue wasn't explored at all and you could play without knowing any of them were gay. That's not a flaw, but it would be nice if perhaps Caesar's Legion were homophobic and it came up a little more or something. Homosexuals are probably the most persecuted large group of people on Earth. Many countries (nearly all Islamic states) still have the death penalty for them, and very few countries allow them equal rights. Hate crimes and bullying are rarely not a huge issue in gay peoples lives. GTA seems to be the only game series that's a meaningful social commentary.
Most game characters do not express their sexuality. Who's to say that Gordon Freeman isn't homosexual? It generally only comes up if a game has sex scenes. And certainly not in linear games.
Most game characters do not express their sexuality. Who's to say that Gordon Freeman isn't homosexual? It generally only comes up if a game has sex scenes. And certainly not in linear games.
Totally agree about GTA, GTAIV in particular has featured some of the best, fairest and most accurate (at least from a humorous perspective) representations of gay characters in any videogame, ever. I also though they handled a lot of other social issues incredibly well, particularly illegal immigration.valleyshrew said:
I remember in New Vegas, there's a gay character at the Mojave Outpost (can't remember the name) who mentions that they're not open with their sexuality because the Mojave is a bit more homophobic than where they're originally from, but that was the only time in the game that it was brought up. Generally I thought of the Fallout series that because they take place so far into the future (and in an alternative timeline) that people are generally past sexuality being an issue, which was why, particularly in Vegas itself, homosexuality seemed to be very much accepted.
Speaking of Fallout, Flak and Shrapnel and Carol and Greta from Fallout 3 were two fantastic examples of gay couples, too.
I agree that Rockstar has done well at incorporating LGBT stereotypes into the GTA series, but not so much the reality. Gay Tony is easily a cut and paste stereotypical, flamboyant, gay, club owner, and while is character has purpose beyond that...that's the slate they started with. A little more depth would've been enjoyed, and people like that do exist, so it wasn't a bad portrayal.valleyshrew said:
Caesar's Legion weren't probably homophobic at all, just saying. Based on a lot of what their culture is, it would be very hard for them if they hated a number of themselves.
Anyway, the thing I was building towards...hate crimes and bullying are an issue. Just because you personally don't see it, do not for half a second think that it doesn't exist in large quantity. Hell...go on Xbox Live for 10 minutes...this message will still be here. It still happens far too often for it to be called unusual. Calling it 'rare' though...that kinda digs into either your being misinformed or uneducated on the subject.
Only if presented tastefully (read: REALISTICALLY, exploring all facets of the issue, the good, the bad and the ugly), with subtlety (read: NOT preaching, leaving me to make up my own decisions), and with respect to plot and characters (read: NOT shoehorned into it at random)
This is also how I'd love all my "issues" to be handled in games, not just LGBT ones.
This is also how I'd love all my "issues" to be handled in games, not just LGBT ones.
I don't know about LGBT "topics", I just wish there were okay representations of non-cis/non-heterosexual people. I don't need a big spotlight over them either or any concrete lessons learned through them, I just want them to at least be there, have some presence. I especially wish there were more characters whose gender is unmistakably non-binary -- the closest example I can think of are the friggin' Magypsies from Mother 3.
Nothing wrong with Magypsies, they're just, err... Very camp.
EDIT: And no, I don't want them to be just stuffed in there by force. But, whenever you ask yourself something like "Should I make this character bisexual" and the answer you come up with is "Well, why not?".... Well, why not?
Nothing wrong with Magypsies, they're just, err... Very camp.
EDIT: And no, I don't want them to be just stuffed in there by force. But, whenever you ask yourself something like "Should I make this character bisexual" and the answer you come up with is "Well, why not?".... Well, why not?
If it is well-written, then yes. I am not heterosexual, and I do not really enjoy terribly written plots, GLBT-themed or not. Also, I did not really have a problem with the romances of DA2. I do not get why so many people take issue with that aspect of the game.
Mafia and The Sands of Time (and 100s of other games) would like to have a word with you.Zaik said:
OT: I see no reason why that couldn't be a theme. You're basically playing with the same coin as when games deal with racism, so I don't see why you couldn't do it with sexuality.
Yes. Yes! A thousand times yes.Trezu said:
I'm always very happy when video games touch on LGBT topics. Persona 4 was vastly improved by two characters with LGBT issues (gay and trans specifically). I loved those character interactions and dungeons.
That's right, people who haven't played Persona 4 - there's a closeted gay dungeon and a transgender dungeon (in addition to the rebellion dungeon, the self-loathing dungeon, the crisis of identity dungeon, the childish innocence dungeon, and the completely insane psycho killer dungeon).
Seeing the characters' emotional problems through the dungeon metaphors in Persona allowed the player to experience that state not only through dialog but also through the gameplay. Brilliantly done.
I wish more games explored this important part of the human experience.
Yes! Thank you!seraphmaclay said:
**grins**
Actually, that was one of the reasons they were my favorite characters. I love Fang and Vanille's relationship. It's subtle, but at the same time very obvious in how they react to one another.
Anyway....
Also Squall gets asked whether he's a woman and the player can say "yes"seraphmaclay said:
I actually ship FangxLight aka FLight. It's also pretty much there if you squint really hard.
Final Fantasy IV:
In Fabul, a monk pretends to be Dancing Girl until the player talks to him. He then reveals his true identity and dances about. There is implied to be another crossdresser in Troia by the name of "Stella".
Final Fantasy Tactics:
In the Midlight's Deep, the player can sometime encounter a male Time Mage enemy who screams like a female when defeated, dubbed as "Dragqueen" by fans. It is unknown if the character is a bug or intentional, but he only appears in that dungeon. The player can recruit the Dragqueen by the use of Orator and his sprite will change to a female Time Mage but retains the male portrait, being essentially a female unit who has access to the female-exclusive equipments and the job class Dancer rather than male-exclusive Bard. If used as a Dancer, the Dragqueen's sprite and portrait will use the Bard's set with the job command "Dance".
Additionally, Cloud and Onion Knights can equip Perfume and Lipstick accessories, which can otherwise only be equipped by female characters.
From the wikia. they have an entry on crossdressing
We can be happy forevah now! >w<
For a topic which is asking for the discussion of a concept to help more people understand something...wouldn't...oh I dont know. Actually writing what your discussing, rather then just using an abbreviation, be like, super important?
Because....not everyone instantly picks up on various slang and shortening.
Like me, I only have a vague idea what we're talking about from reading replies.
Because....not everyone instantly picks up on various slang and shortening.
Like me, I only have a vague idea what we're talking about from reading replies.
What exactly are you having trouble understanding, Elijin? Ask, and I'm sure one of us can answer.Elijin said: