Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

umatbro

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But why? We're all gonna die anyway, so why do anything about it?
Fuck if I know, just give me my Novavax, or Ivermectin if Novavax isn't available.

Also
1. How come you didn't notice me posting Disturbed?
2. Why is ✅ your gender?
 

Kwak

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So the vaccine side-effects - do they all just mimic the effects of covid to some extent because your body is adapting to a virtual infection of it, or are they unique and specific to the vaccines themselves and the way they interact with the body?
 

Agema

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So the vaccine side-effects - do they all just mimic the effects of covid to some extent because your body is adapting to a virtual infection of it, or are they unique and specific to the vaccines themselves and the way they interact with the body?
The vaccine should theoretically be inert in all ways except its ability to generate an immune response, therefore the side effects should all be normal immune system activity. A great deal of you feeling generally rubbish when you have an infection is in fact just your immune system doing its thing, although of course an actual infection will give you additional specific effects too depending on where the pathogen is and what it does (e.g. commonly diarrhoea for gastrointestinal infection).

So things like fever, pain, tiredness. Fever to help combat pathogens by moving the body outside normal temperature range hopefully to something the pathogen is less able to function at, tiredness to induce sleep (restorative), pain because many of the signalling molecules to promote inflammation / immunity also sensitise pain nerves to make sure you know something is wrong. The rare result of blood clotting is also believed to be an offshoot of pro-inflammatory processes rather than the infection itself, as some of the inflammatory signalling chemicals also affect blood coagulation pathways.
 
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Kwak

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I'm basing the question on this graphic. I assumed by 'vaccines' they meant specifically coronavirus vaccines, but I could easily be misreading it.
I suppose the negative numbers are effects not particularly associated with the vaccines but are presented with covid?1631092904803.png
 

Agema

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I'm basing the question on this graphic. I assumed by 'vaccines' they meant specifically coronavirus vaccines, but I could easily be misreading it.
I suppose the negative numbers are effects not particularly associated with the vaccines but are presented with covid?
The graphic seems plausible enough and gets its point across, although it's a little vague or opaque. Presumably all of those are relative to normal risk values: So if for instance normally 80 in 100,000 people have a myocardial infarction per unit time, this chart would suggest 81 / 100,000 for people taking the vaccine and 105 / 100,000 for those who have covid-19. Without the context of the baseline morbidity rates, it's a little frustrating.

In many cases, you'll be having a lot of these due to an adverse clotting or inflammatory event. Any condition ending in "-itis" (arthritis, gastroenteritis, pericarditis, conjunctivitis) is an inflammatory condition. A lot of the others are, or are heavily associated with, blood flow problems which clotting or inflammation would likely affect to some degree.

One would have to point out that when a vaccine is injected, it dumps in a finite amount of material that will be cleared, so the immune response is likely to be pretty short. Infections, however, are due to things that replicate, so they'll stick around longer. You'll probably have covid for a week or two at least, and that suggests a great deal more inflammatory and immune activity, so it's very rational to suspect any risks from inflammatory and immune activity could be increased compared to a vaccine.
 
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McElroy

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The graphic seems plausible enough and gets its point across, although it's a little vague or opaque.
Frankly this is a wrong way to convey epidemiological information. I don't see "risk difference" used anywhere and a lot of kinda necessary information is simply omitted in that picture. You obviously know your odds ratios and relative risks and the average person doesn't, but here I'm left a bit confused too.
 

Kwak

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Frankly this is a wrong way to convey epidemiological information. I don't see "risk difference" used anywhere and a lot of kinda necessary information is simply omitted in that picture. You obviously know your odds ratios and relative risks and the average person doesn't, but here I'm left a bit confused too.
Well I guess it was intended for use in context of the whole post, but I only saw (or my brain only registered) the graphic while scrolling.
 
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Agema

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Frankly this is a wrong way to convey epidemiological information. I don't see "risk difference" used anywhere...
"Risk difference" is used in epidemiology, but as far as I'm aware it's not that common - bear in mind, however, I am not an epidemiologist so it might be more common than I think. I'm more familiar with relative risk - although relative risk can have its limitations too. A relative risk of 5 looks awful, but if the base incidence is low enough (say, one in a million), you might argue it doesn't really matter a damn.

There is an argument that it doesn't really matter what you show, the average man on the street is going to be pretty clueless about the detail of how it works. Thus the working being "understandable" is overrated: being accurate, fair, and making the point is the real premium. And when I say "fair" I mean honestly representative of reality, because we all know that people can be technically accurate but completely misleading. It is true that virtually any serious harm the vaccine does, covid is more likely to do the same, thus the graphic is in my view fair, representative (and presumably accurate), even if from a scientific perspective I find it a little unfulfilling.
 

McElroy

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Without age brackets and underlying health status I think it's pretty useless. Surely the vaccine doesn't really lower one's chances of kidney injury or arrhythmia, but the 1:25 000 chance of myo-/pericarditis is something they warn people about. The added info Kwak posted makes it a bit better of course (and it was absolute risk as expected). Maybe it gets the message across... to some.
 

stroopwafel

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Scientists made some great progress using mRNA therapy in cancer research by targeting cytokines at the innate receptors of specific organs by combing the mRNA cocktail with immune checkpoint inhibitors(a drug that block proteins made up of cancer and immune cells that prevent an immune reaction to the cancer). The local and transient effect of mRNA cocktails would have way less side effects than gene therapy.

Very promising and another good thing that came out of the funds and research put into mRNA vaccines. Maybe an mRNA cocktail will be able to cure specific kinds of cancers in the future. Though it will probably come at a high price considering the variety of tumor cells each cocktail would need to be tailor made for each patient.

 

gorfias

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But why? We're all gonna die anyway, so why do anything about it?
Because at a minimum, I need to live long enough to see the next Spiderman movie.

ITMT: NRO ponders a likely reality that Covid, like the cold and flu, is here to stay. Does that change our life styles? Should it? https://www.nationalreview.com/2021...-you-want-the-rest-of-your-life-to-look-like/

My nephew-in-law to be tested positive again. No symptoms. He's had it, got the double fauci ouchie anyway, and is testing positive again (his job is in the medical field). He's going to re-test to see if it was a false positive but for now, back to quarantine.
 

Avnger

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Because at a minimum, I need to live long enough to see the next Spiderman movie.

ITMT: NRO ponders a likely reality that Covid, like the cold and flu, is here to stay. Does that change our life styles? Should it? https://www.nationalreview.com/2021...-you-want-the-rest-of-your-life-to-look-like/

My nephew-in-law to be tested positive again. No symptoms. He's had it, got the double fauci ouchie anyway, and is testing positive again (his job is in the medical field). He's going to re-test to see if it was a false positive but for now, back to quarantine.
> Complains about "biased" and "untrustworthy" main stream media
> Regularly links to Ann Coulter and the National Review as sources of information

🤔 🤔 🤔

To defend against criminals, invaders, and Biden's goons if and when he goes full fash.
"Carter's going to take our guns and go full fash!!!!" - nothing happens...
"Clinton's going to take our guns and go full fash!!!!" - nothing happens...
"Obama's going to take our guns and go full fash!!!!" - nothing happens...
"Biden's going to take our guns and go full fash!!!!"

At some point, one would think the you'd move beyond the paranoid rhetoric and admit reality that the deadly weapon stockpiles are just combination safety blanket and "big, tough man(/woman)" feeling booster.

This also ignores how Bush Jr oversaw the original passage of the Patriot Act which essentially eliminated due process for all Americans as long as the federal government says the magic words "national security" and the most recent Republican president Trump saying during a policy meeting "Take the guns first, go through due process second.”
 

thebobmaster

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Because at a minimum, I need to live long enough to see the next Spiderman movie.

ITMT: NRO ponders a likely reality that Covid, like the cold and flu, is here to stay. Does that change our life styles? Should it? https://www.nationalreview.com/2021...-you-want-the-rest-of-your-life-to-look-like/

My nephew-in-law to be tested positive again. No symptoms. He's had it, got the double fauci ouchie anyway, and is testing positive again (his job is in the medical field). He's going to re-test to see if it was a false positive but for now, back to quarantine.
Sorry to hear about your nephew. I've had a couple of scares, but both times, came back negative. I can't imagine being on the other side and being unlucky enough to get it twice when that's supposed to be almost impossible.
 
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tstorm823

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Sorry to hear about your nephew. I've had a couple of scares, but both times, came back negative. I can't imagine being on the other side and being unlucky enough to get it twice when that's supposed to be almost impossible.
Testing positive twice is far from almost impossible. It's not as though immunity puts a force field around your body, it just fights off what gets inside. Getting seriously ill twice is what is incredibly rare.
 
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thebobmaster

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Testing positive twice is far from almost impossible. It's not as though immunity puts a force field around your body, it just fights off what gets inside. Getting seriously ill twice is what is incredibly rare.
Really? The impression I got was that COVID was almost like chicken pox in terms of chances to catch a second time. I'm not saying you're wrong, or I'm right, just saying what I'd heard.
 
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