Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[crimson5pheonix]

But while we're on the subject of vaccines and vaccine deployment.

Probe of Secret Vaccine Talks Finds 'Access for All Was Never a Priority'

Public health campaigners said the investigation confirms "what we suspected all along: Vaccine nationalism and pharma profits trumped Covid solidarity."

www.commondreams.org

Let's not forget that the huge push by the west to vaccinate their whole populations also comes at the expense of the global south, even though it doesn't actually have to.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

But guys, if you aren't gently and patiently explaining to him how he's wrong instead of just making fun of absurd beliefs then you're literally causing them to believe this stuff and are monsters.

 

[Agema]

According to an article, 3/4s of Americans are vitamin d deficient.

lol.

Lol, the study showed cloth masks did nothing.

Ah, here we go - now you've got data that makes it hard to argue masking is as useless as you think, you've instead moved the goalposts to a new argument that cloth masks are useless, which you're pumping for all it's worth in an attempt to pretend you weren't wrong.

Nope, you don't understand how nobody thinks the virus spreads outside.

No, I've read the recommendations from government advisories, medical organisations, etc. and they are all explicit that close proximity and extended length of contact time is a significant risk factor even outdoors.

I did understand the paper and nobody claimed HCQ would reduce viral load so the study was bullshit because that was never even claimed nor the reason why it might help against covid.

Again, this has been explained to you at length, plus sources, and you are embarrassingly wrong.

HCQ was initially proposed for treatment of covid largely because of experiments showing HCQ had an antiviral effect on SARS-CoV-1 a couple of decades ago. You've cited people like Zelenko, and people like Zelenko explicitly cited an antiviral rationale - you were just too ignorant and incompetent to notice. So at the time the study (Mitja et al., 2020) was conducted, antiviral properties (thus reducing viral load) was the primary hypothesised mechanism for HCQ. It was only later that you and other HCQ fanatics switched to an immunomodulatory mechanism argument, which occurred because the evidence such as Mitja et al. (2020) eradicated the antiviral hypothesis. And yet you and others have maintained this "early treatment" (post-exposure prophylaxis) defence, despite the fact that preventing symptoms worsening would be done by an antiviral vastly more convincingly than it would be done by the proposed immunomodulatory activity of HCQ.

You've been in a total muddle over HCQ right from the start, which stems from your failure to a) read enough science and b) interpret what you have read competently. I know exactly why and how you have done this. Instead of reading the science properly at the start and forming a conclusion from it, what you did was read some shit in the media that HCQ worked, and at best followed a few links HCQ-supportive media provided. Thus you formed a firm conclusion HCQ worked on unsafe grounds. From that point, when you met challenge, you were motivated to read the science only for defending your pre-existing belief: and so you still did not read the science properly. You just cherry picked the supportive bits, and tried to assimilate information and explanations in a disordered fashion to make sense of your original irrational conclusion that HCQ worked.

And then you've done exactly the same with ivermectin: you've adopted a belief it will work from inadequate science and bad arguments, and now demand everyone disprove it.

 

[Agema]

And what I said many times is that doctors, including infectious disease doctors, are not getting their prescriptions for IVM prescribed. Everyone can get remdesivir in the hospital but try to give them IVM and all shit breaks loose. That was my point.

Plenty of people are being prescribed ivermectin. Indeed, I'm pretty sure the websites of the FLCCC Alliance and America's Frontline Doctors have created profiteering opportunities online pharmacies precisely for this purpose.

In terms of hospitals, hospitals aren't places where lone doctors are supposed to do whatever the fuck they want. They tend to be more collaborative, where doctors in units agree standards of care and best practice. If they decide against IVM, that will therefore be the line the hospital takes. There are hospitals using ivermectin - after all, Pierre Kory and his fellow IVM cranks are using protocols including IVM, and they aren't treating patients in their spare bedrooms.

There will be a lot of hospitals not prescribing remdesivir, either. But remdesivir doesn't have a fan club of deranged obsessives taking hospitals to court when doctors don't think it's any use.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

This is exactly what they claim of the "MSM" even though they are the "MSM" being the most watched "news" in America. The projection and gaslighting will never stop.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

More vaccine hoarding fuckery conveniently going barely reported:

 

[crimson5pheonix]

More vaccine hoarding fuckery conveniently going barely reported:
View attachment 4578

And people wonder why Sinovac is so popular outside of the western hegemon.

 

[Agema]

And people wonder why Sinovac is so popular outside of the western hegemon.

China quickly realised the PR advantages of getting its vaccine out there for its global reputation. The West, by contrast, does not seem to have had anything like the same concern, just leaving companies to do their usual shit trying to make tons of money at whatever cost.

The only Western vaccine that explicitly had a motivation to get delivered to the world ASAP as cheaply as possible was the Oxford / Astra-Zeneca, which as we might recall was subjected to a vast amount of mostly undeserved bad publicity (much hyped by Russia and China). It's still not fully approved in the USA; whilst I appreciate the way it conducted trials was a little unconventional, this seems absolutely fucking bizarre. I cannot help but think there is a motivation to favour US vaccine manufacturers by shutting out the competition. Thus the West's attitude to public service.

 

[tstorm823]

China quickly realised the PR advantages of getting its vaccine out there for its global reputation. The West, by contrast, does not seem to have had anything like the same concern, just leaving companies to do their usual shit trying to make tons of money at whatever cost.

The only Western vaccine that explicitly had a motivation to get delivered to the world ASAP as cheaply as possible was the Oxford / Astra-Zeneca, which as we might recall was subjected to a vast amount of mostly undeserved bad publicity (much hyped by Russia and China). It's still not fully approved in the USA; whilst I appreciate the way it conducted trials was a little unconventional, this seems absolutely fucking bizarre. I cannot help but think there is a motivation to favour US vaccine manufacturers by shutting out the competition. Thus the West's attitude to public service.

That was needlessly cynical. Only one vaccine has gotten fully approved in the US. 3 got emergency use authorization, and at a certain point, it becomes more reckless to hand out more emergency use authorizations, the chance of one going wrong goes up with each option you add, and for very little gain once you can supply the country already.

The US never gave emergency use authorization to Astra Zeneca, but it bought a crap ton, and then gave it all away. What are you complaining about?

 

[Agema]

The US never gave emergency use authorization to Astra Zeneca, but it bought a crap ton, and then gave it all away. What are you complaining about?

Has it? Last I read it had blocked US production of tens of millions of doses (in favour of US-owned vaccines) and was sitting on lots of millions of doses that had been made, twiddling its thumbs. I don't think it even counts people who've had the AZ vaccine as vaccinated, which includes probably well over a hundred million Europeans. Never mind that FDA approval (emergency or full) would constitute a "vote of confidence" in the AZ vaccine at a global level, as other countries, organisations and individuals may consider that a signal of safety and effectiveness.

Let's face it, the history of the FDA in approving (or not approving) drugs and vaccines is hardly one of cast-iron consistency and immunity to political and corporate influence. I don't mean to be too unduly brutal - broadly the FDA is pretty rigorous and responsible. But it definitely has a degree of flexibility to serve political and corporate interests: just take a look at all those dodgy opioid formulations it passed on the way to leaving the USA with a drugs crisis. Pfizer and Moderna are making mega-billions, which is good for the balance of trade by transferring foreign income to US workers and shareholders. If you don't think politicians and companies are willing to exploit that flexibility, I think you'd be quite naive.

 

[BrawlMan]

. If you don't think politicians and companies are willing to exploit that flexibility, I think you'd be quite naive.

He's more than naive. He's straight up delusional, delirious, and selectively oblivious. Don't forget that this is one of the users that like to always extend the goal post.

 

[tstorm823]

Has it? Last I read it had blocked US production of tens of millions of doses (in favour of US-owned vaccines) and was sitting on lots of millions of doses that had been made, twiddling its thumbs. I don't think it even counts people who've had the AZ vaccine as vaccinated, which includes probably well over a hundred million Europeans. Never mind that FDA approval (emergency or full) would constitute a "vote of confidence" in the AZ vaccine at a global level, as other countries, organisations and individuals may consider that a signal of safety and effectiveness.

I know nothing of a stockpile being left to rot, and all I found about blocking production was that one production facility was having problems and they're checking what they have for safety while trying to move production to a new facility. I don't know about counting and not counting, but the rules they've made for travel count vaccines approved by either the FDA or the WHO, so unless they have some weird separate list that follows different standards that the rules being put in place, people vaccinated with Astra Zeneca are being counted as vaccinated.

Let's face it, the history of the FDA in approving (or not approving) drugs and vaccines is hardly one of cast-iron consistency and immunity to political and corporate influence. I don't mean to be too unduly brutal - broadly the FDA is pretty rigorous and responsible. But it definitely has a degree of flexibility to serve political and corporate interests: just take a look at all those dodgy opioid formulations it passed on the way to leaving the USA with a drugs crisis. Pfizer and Moderna are making mega-billions, which is good for the balance of trade by transferring foreign income to US workers and shareholders. If you don't think politicians and companies are willing to exploit that flexibility, I think you'd be quite naive.

Assuming any given action by the FDA is dodgy is leagues more silly than assuming any given action is above board. Neither assumption is a safe assumption, but you're leaning the wrong way by a mile. If you've got information I haven't seen about US interaction with the Astra Zeneca vaccine, feel free to provide that, but I think you're buying into conspiracy theories here.

He's more than naive. He's straight up delusional, delirious, and selectively oblivious. Don't forget that this is one of the users that like to always extend the goal post.

But have you ever heard the word "platitude"?

 

[BrawlMan]

I know nothing of a stockpile being left to rot, and all I found about blocking production was that one production facility was having problems and they're checking what they have for safety while trying to move production to a new facility. I don't know about counting and not counting, but the rules they've made for travel count vaccines approved by either the FDA or the WHO, so unless they have some weird separate list that follows different standards that the rules being put in place, people vaccinated with Astra Zeneca are being counted as vaccinated.

Assuming any given action by the FDA is dodgy is leagues more silly than assuming any given action is above board. Neither assumption is a safe assumption, but you're leaning the wrong way by a mile. If you've got information I haven't seen about US interaction with the Astra Zeneca vaccine, feel free to provide that, but I think you're buying into conspiracy theories here.

But have you ever heard the word "platitude"?

Glad to know your questioning yourself. Now maybe you'll start learning to stop extending the goal posts like you always do.

 

[Agema]

Assuming any given action by the FDA is dodgy is leagues more silly...

So I might agree, had it not been - as I explicitly pointed out - what I consider to be some dubious decision-making regarding opioid approvals, which include potentially bending to pressure from drugs companies or over-cosy relationships with them.

You don't get to act like everything's fine when there's already evidence suggesting it hasn't been.

 

[tstorm823]

You don't get to act like everything's fine when there's already evidence suggesting it hasn't been.

I'm not pretending everything is fine. You're pretending that nothing is fine.

 

[tstorm823]

Glad to know your questioning yourself. Now maybe you'll start learning to stop extending the goal posts like you always do.

But, have you ever heard the word "platitude"?

 

[BrawlMan]

But, have you ever heard the word "platitude"?

Have you? That is the true question you must understand, cuz I don't think you do. Don't come talking to me until you figured that out. Actually figured it out, and not some weird, unique, version that only applies to you and your subpar standards. Otherwise, there's nothing worthy discussing.

 

[Agema]

I'm not pretending everything is fine. You're pretending that nothing is fine.

Let's check that, shall we?

I don't mean to be too unduly brutal - broadly the FDA is pretty rigorous and responsible.

So I guess you're just wrong there.

 

[tstorm823]

Let's check that, shall we?

So I guess you're just wrong there.

It's not worthwhile to say "they're usually pretty good" if you're still willing to say "they sucked pretty hard on occasion, so I'm choosing to believe they suck this time too."

If you would, do you have any information demonstrating the US is blocking production of the Astra Zeneca vaccine and holding back a stockpile of what they have? Unless you are referring to issues at one plant that has production relocating due to issues at the current facility, I've found nothing to corroborate what you're saying.

Have you? That is the true question you must understand, cuz I don't think you do. Don't come talking to me until you figured that out. Actually figured it out, and not some weird, unique, version that only applies to you and your subpar standards. Otherwise, there's nothing worthy discussing.

Yes, I have. It applies to most of your posts. You write down cliches, believing them meaningful, and expect them to just end the conversation.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It's not worthwhile to say "they're usually pretty good" if you're still willing to say "they sucked pretty hard on occasion, so I'm choosing to believe they suck this time too."

If you would, do you have any information demonstrating the US is blocking production of the Astra Zeneca vaccine and holding back a stockpile of what they have? Unless you are referring to issues at one plant that has production relocating due to issues at the current facility, I've found nothing to corroborate what you're saying.

Yes, I have. It applies to most of your posts. You write down cliches, believing them meaningful, and expect them to just end the conversation.

You (unsurprisingly) suck at research as just googling FDA Astrazeneca will point you to the FDA site where they say they have not approved the AZ vaccine, and several news articles talking about how the AZ vaccine was stalled in the US that led to American vaccines catching up to the faster developed AZ vaccine.