Listing The Conservatives' efforts of suppressing the American ability to Vote.

Cheetodust

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I never made any statement as to the wrongness or rightness of your tribe's choice to live apart from society.

It's just that they don't get to complain when it comes time to register for absentee voting. Their inability to register due to lacking valid photo id, would be, in that sense, their own fault.
I mean, yeah way to sum up the colonial goals specifically and the issue with states in general. "Sure you can have a say in what the people who colonised your land do with that land but first you have to forego your own society and join theirs?

What do you think one of the major things colonised and displaced people would want? Could it have something to do with preserving their way of life?
 

Houseman

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"Sure you can have a say in what the people who colonised your land do with that land but first you have to forego your own society and join theirs?
That's just the easiest route. The hardest route is to jump through hoops, such as not letting your 7-year-old flood the bathtub and destroy your documents, as in post #32.

What do you think one of the major things colonised and displaced people would want? Could it have something to do with preserving their way of life?
If they want something, they should be willing to do whatever is necessary to get it, which in this case means getting a valid photo ID and getting to a polling station.
But I guess that's too much to ask?
 

dreng3

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If they want something, they should be willing to do whatever is necessary to get it, which in this case means getting a valid photo ID and getting to a polling station.
But I guess that's too much to ask?
Isn't it more reasonable to question whether the rules and regulations in places are reasonable?

Saying that since photo-ID is required you should just get some doesn't really make as much sense as asking why photo-ID is required. Plenty of places do well without and it is thus proven that people can participate in the process without adhering to that specific rule.

It seems akin to saying "If you didn't want to be taxed to death you should have just hired an accountant" when in reality the system shouldn't be taxing people to death to begin with.
 

lil devils x

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Riiight because the Constitution SPECIFICALLY guaranteed this right, and that US citizenship cannot ever be taken away from Native Americans and the Constitution designated Tribes as sovereign was somehow a choice and that somehow means we DESERVE to have obstacles put in our way now to prevent us from voting. Too funny. Seriously..

Just when you think you have heard it all someone lets a thought that stupid enter their head. LOL.. You're right maybe he needs to knock it on the ground a few times and that will get it back out again.
 
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lil devils x

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That's just the easiest route. The hardest route is to jump through hoops, such as not letting your 7-year-old flood the bathtub and destroy your documents, as in post #32.



If they want something, they should be willing to do whatever is necessary to get it, which in this case means getting a valid photo ID and getting to a polling station.
But I guess that's too much to ask?
Those "documents" did not contain a photo ID so the hoops would be there none the less. IT is too much to ask because in order to have an ID, you have to have a street address, and many on the reservations do not have street addresses because there are no streets where they live. Besides, the Tribal nations are interacted with via treaty by the federal government not the states, as they are sovereign, so technically, they should have their own polling stations anyhow, and not covered by state voting laws in the first place as the Constitution designated in the first place.

Hell even behind my parents farmland , the cabin behind the pond doesn't technically have an address either and that isn't even on a reservation. Not all people have an address to be able to obtain a photo ID in the first place, even those not on reservations. What about homeless? People living in RV's on the road or are just parked on empty land? What about people living in tents? People living in the mountains? People living in homes on former plantations where they never even built roads in the first place? The houses behind my parents farm have no road access and have been there since Bonnie and Clyde's days, there are still broken down stills out there, it is said they used to hide out in them, when they would party at the local honky tonk, people still go and live in them from time to time. They didn't lose their citizenship or their right to vote simply because they do not have a street address, and to expect them to use someone else's in order to vote at all is technically illegal since that is not their address.

The requirement to have an address in order to obtain a photo ID to vote is just another means to take away their ability to vote at all, and YES, voter suppression.

 
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Revnak

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Not as to the morality of living apart from society, just the morality of complaining about having to jump through hoops in order to participate in the society that you made a choice not to be a part of, and calling that voter suppression. Just that last bit.
Hmm, I wonder what else I said in this post that may explain the why of that “choice.”
 

Houseman

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IT is too much to ask because in order to have an ID, you have to have a street address
It probably varies by state, but I have fact-checked this statement and found it false.

 

lil devils x

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It probably varies by state, but I have fact-checked this statement and found it false.

So how do you actually obtain ANY of those documents without:
*ANY current documentation. Often Homeless people do not have any at all.
* Postal address. You cannot receive mail without an address to have it mailed to. They mail your ID here.
*Many counties here do not even have shelters, so the homeless here cannot even use those addresses and they also do not even have transportation to go anywhere because most counties in Texas, for example, do not even have public transportation.
* Money to pay for an ID at all.
The homeless don't have receipts from campgrounds, they just set up in unoccupied land randomly until the cops run them off.. Do these people think they pay for that? LOL

DID you fail to read the last paragraph there? It is amazing you think all people even have access to these things. Most counties in Texas have No shelters, No public Transportation, How exactly are they supposed to get to a DMV? The family living in the holes in the ground with plastic over them under the floorboards of that house with two walls and no roof down the street from me, didn't have access to ANY of those things. It is like you have no concept of what people actually go through here. They didn't even have a phone.

The people taking shelter in the cabins behind my parents farm land don't have any of those things, they walk there from the road that goes by the Rodeo straight through the fields until they reach them. You can't even see them from the road, they are just past the treeline. I got to them by following the creek down the road from my parents farm, but it isn't like they are easy to access from any direction, you certainly are not getting a vehicle down there. They aren't paying anyone rent, they aren't going to have receipts. It is like the people writing this are completely ignorant of what people actually go through here and have no clue what it is like to lose everything you have.

You keep pointing out all the reasons WHY they can't get an ID, not that they actually can here. Those things do not even exist in every city/ county.
 
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Houseman

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So how do you actually obtain ANY of those documents without:
*ANY current documentation.
Then, voting should be lower on your list of priorities, underneath 'survival' and 'getting your life together'.

If you're living in a hole in the ground, you have bigger problems.

Man, have you moved the goalposts far away. At first we were talking about voting by mail, and now you're bringing up homeless people who don't even have access to a mailbox.

What do you even want? The voting fairy to just flit around to every American in one day and ask them for their vote? Or do you just get off on talking about how bad homeless people have it?
 
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lil devils x

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Then, voting should be lower on your list of priorities, underneath 'survival' and 'getting your life together'.

If you're living in a hole in the ground, you have bigger problems.

Man, have you moved the goalposts far away. At first we were talking about voting by mail, and now you're bringing up homeless people who don't even have access to a mailbox.

What do you even want? The voting fairy to just flit around to every American in one day and ask them for their vote? Or do you just get off on talking about how bad homeless people have it?
Without voting, they cannot get officials who will provide the necessities they need. It is the city/ county elections that determine whether or not they have a shelter built in the first place. One of my brothers is homeless right now, and another one of my brothers is about to lose his home due to COVID. I want to make sure there are resources made available for them. Taking away their right to vote isn't how we go about making sure that can happen. It just silences them. I have 2 polling location options to vote in person just a few minutes from where I live, the homeless do have access to polling locations in GOP counties, they just do not have access to the paperwork required due to voter suppression. Isn't it amazing how they voted in the US from the beginning without a photo ID but suddenly it is such a pressing issue when we have no evidence that it is even a serious problem in the first place?

Even our conservative FBI is telling us it is a non issue. The idea it is at all is just propaganda, not based in fact. Facts are though that citizens are being denied their right to vote due to putting obstacles in place that prevent them from doing so.

What do I want? I want there to be ample options for voting, easy access and providing the resources needed to make sure as many people as possible able able to vote. There is no excuse for them to limit mail in voting, the number of ballot drop off boxes should be determined by population and distance, so that everyone has a chance to have their voice heard rather than doing all this BS to try and make it so they can't.

The goalposts haven't moved, this is a thread about the efforts suppressing the vote. I want the obstacles removed and to make it easier so that everyone can participate in the way that works for them. The GOP seems to go to extreme lengths to try and prevent that from happening.
 
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ObsidianJones

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Hey, I do want to remind people that you shouldn't let someone try to twist the narrative yet again.

Getting ids are just a really small part of this.

Getting ids is the topic focused on because, in essence, it's the least offensive thing done. Thereby, easier to argue.

Purging voters that can reach into the millions when this is all said and done by "accident".... Hundreds of thousand in a state, multiple states at a time. Redrawing districts that overwhelmingly favor Republicans even though the census and the actual registered landscape never fit the the new district maps, but held up by a Republican leaning Supreme Court just the same... This BS is substantially harder to explain away.

Outrage doesn't just serve to get conservatives up in arms, believing in falsehoods. It also serves to distract and frustrate democrats, liberals, and independents by making them focus on smaller issues instead of the bigger ones such as People's Rights are being taken away in a much Grander Scheme than IDs. The end game of arguing just IDs is "If you don't want to be apart of the system, I don't have sympathy for you". And you focus on the audacity of such a callous idea, so you become myopic to the gestalt.

Because it's easier to have a leg to stand on with "Just get an Id, it's not hard" than "So what that 100,000 citizens were purged erroneously and never reinstated after finding that out. Those people wouldn't have voted for my party, so more the better for me!"

Relax. Realize there's nothing here but something to upset you. Stick to the subject at hand. Conservatives have been removing the ability for Every American to vote through many means to give them a leg up in elections. That is the bigger picture. That is the problem. And that is the focus.
 

lil devils x

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Some good news on the voter suppression front:
A federal judge in Pennsylvania has denied the Trump campaign and Republican Party's bid to make ballot dropboxes in Pennsylvania unconstitutional, in a resounding defeat for the campaign's challenges to voting policy in a key battleground state.

Judge Nicholas Ranjan of the Western District of Pennsylvania court on Saturday also refused to throw out policies in Pennsylvania allowing signatures on mail-in ballots to not strictly match the voters' signature on file with the state and requiring poll workers to live in the county where they will work on Election Day.
He also rejected Republicans' fears of voter fraud, saying it's possible but not proven likely.

"While Plaintiffs may not need to prove actual voter fraud, they must at least prove that such fraud is 'certainly impending.' They haven't met that burden. At most, they have pieced together a sequence of uncertain assumptions," Ranjan wrote in the 138-page opinion.


Federal judge blocks Texas governor's directive limiting ballot drop boxes to one per county

A federal judge late Friday blocked Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's directive that limited ballot drop boxes to one per county.
Several groups had filed suit over the controversial directive, issued last week, because they felt it would suppress voters -- particularly in larger counties.
Judge Robert Pitman agreed, writing, "By limiting ballot return centers to one per county, older and disabled voters living in Texas's largest and most populous counties must travel further distances to more crowded ballot return centers where they would be at an increased risk of being infected by the coronavirus in order to exercise their right to vote and have it counted."

Texas Democrats cheered the judge's order, calling it "common sense."


Well that is two down.. how many more thousand to go?
 

ObsidianJones

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Hot and fresh off the presses!


If you read the article, you would find out that Republicans sued Governor Newsom for what they are calling a similar practice in April of this year for a special election, an effort that they claimed violated the shelter in place guidelines set up to fight the pandemic.


The difference here, to me, is that these are lawfully appointed people who would be collecting the ballots for the special election. And the GOP here just set up Ballot Boxes and said "It's all good, go ahead and put your ballots here" with NO oversight of who is collecting them and distributing these ballots to the proper locations.

It goes on the list. Stay Classy, everyone.
 

Buyetyen

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If they want something, they should be willing to do whatever is necessary to get it,
And as soon as they do, you will be right there to condemn them for it. I've heard this song a million times, it never ends differently.
 

Buyetyen

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Hot and fresh off the presses!


If you read the article, you would find out that Republicans sued Governor Newsom for what they are calling a similar practice in April of this year for a special election, an effort that they claimed violated the shelter in place guidelines set up to fight the pandemic.


The difference here, to me, is that these are lawfully appointed people who would be collecting the ballots for the special election. And the GOP here just set up Ballot Boxes and said "It's all good, go ahead and put your ballots here" with NO oversight of who is collecting them and distributing these ballots to the proper locations.

It goes on the list. Stay Classy, everyone.
I feel like this is a good time to remind everyone that conservatism as an ideology was born out of monarchy apologetics.
 

ObsidianJones

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Elections officials in Florida and Alaska contacted law enforcement Tuesday after registered voters reported receiving threatening emails that said, "Vote for Trump or else!"
The emails came from an address that appeared to be affiliated with a far-right group, though an analyst who reviewed one email obtained by CNN said it had been sent using foreign internet infrastructure.
The identity of the person or group behind the messages was unknown, said TJ Pyche, a spokesperson for the Alachua County Supervisor of Elections in Florida.
Pyche said his office "got flooded with phone calls and emails" from dozens of voters about the messages Tuesday and immediately reached out to local, state and federal law enforcement, including the FBI.
University of Florida spokesperson Steve Orlando said 183 people, including students, staff and alumni, received the emails.
The Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law received about three dozen reports of voters getting similar email messages Tuesday and at least one of those was from Arizona, said Kristen Clarke, president and executive director of the organization. "Regardless of who is behind this effort it seems the goal is to discourage people from freely casting their ballots," Clarke said.
A spokesperson for the Alaska Division of Elections, Tiffany Montemayor, said the state is aware of Alaskans receiving similar emails and said, "We've forwarded that information to the appropriate federal agencies for their review."
The FBI did not respond to a request for comment.
A spokesperson for the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency said in a statement that it is aware of the emails.
"While we are looking into the emails, we can tell you this: your vote IS secret," the spokesperson said. "These emails are meant to intimidate and undermine American voters' confidence in our elections. Don't fall for sensational and unverified claims. Visit CISA.gov/rumorcontrol to get more facts about elections and election security. #Protect2020"
Roxanne Palmer -- a resident of Alachua County, Florida, who is a Democrat -- said she found one of the emails in her spam folder.
The email was sent from "[email protected]" and demanded that she vote for Trump "or we will come after you," according to a copy she forwarded to CNN.
 

tstorm823

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Yeah, ok, calling fake on that one.I was ready to think "people are dumb" and move on with my life, but "officialproudboys.com"? Lol. What's more likely here? A group subject to controversy decided to send branded threatening emails to a bunch of Democrats at exactly this moment, or someone set up a spam email to look like it was from the proud boys to rile people up?
 

lil devils x

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Yeah, ok, calling fake on that one.I was ready to think "people are dumb" and move on with my life, but "officialproudboys.com"? Lol. What's more likely here? A group subject to controversy decided to send branded threatening emails to a bunch of Democrats at exactly this moment, or someone set up a spam email to look like it was from the proud boys to rile people up?
People have to be pretty stupid to believe in the Proud Boys rhetoric to begin with so, you never know tbh. Just when i think people cant be THATt stupid, they always seem to prove me wrong.
 

tstorm823

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People have to be pretty stupid to believe in the Proud Boys rhetoric to begin with so, you never know tbh. Just when i think people cant be THATt stupid, they always seem to prove me wrong.
Fair enough, I'll leave room to be proven wrong. Just until then, I'm assuming this was an semi-intelligent false flag rather than blatant stupidity.
 

Silvanus

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Yeah, ok, calling fake on that one.I was ready to think "people are dumb" and move on with my life, but "officialproudboys.com"? Lol. What's more likely here? A group subject to controversy decided to send branded threatening emails to a bunch of Democrats at exactly this moment, or someone set up a spam email to look like it was from the proud boys to rile people up?
Did you read the article? It specifically points to several indicators that the emails are not from the actual Proud Boys.

But that's not really the important part, is it? It's still targeted intimidation.