Literature

[pigeon_of_doom]

With a lot of difficult literature, I've found it helps to cross-reference the context. For example, some of the language used in Portrait Of The Artist As A Young Man I didn't understand without looking up some history about Dublin at the time, because it is slang and colloquialisms which are not used elsewhere. Context matters, is I guess the theme of that.

Thanks for the tip. I don't think me not knowing much about that specific part of russian history is my biggest problem, but I'm sure looking into that time would help. I'll do some research before I try to read it again.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

Last month I tried to read the most recent Demonata, and repeatedly asked myself what exactly I had ever enjoyed from his books - the presentation, language, imagery, everything from the description (or lack thereof) to the simple structure is either an abominable, new definition of the phrase 'badly written' or far too over the top to take it in the slightest bit seriously.

I think I must have recieved a blow to the head before I read the Darren Shan novels, as that's the only excuse I can think of for liking them.

I've seen better-written trashy teen love novels, actually.

Oh, I so you've read Laurel K. Hamilton's novels, too? I can give you the number of the support group I go to. They're great people.

I've seen better-written trashy teen love novels, actually.

Well, those novels have the slightest bit of believability, whereas I lose that with Shan as soon as the porky ginger kid starts going on adventures and finds he is capable of destroying demons with his magical mind-powers.

Oh! Maybe someone will have the guts to recommend Twilight, so that we may descend upon them like literate vultures.

Actually, I do that to most Harry Potter fans, but I think that's a result of being too opinionated.

 

[Labyrinth]

I've seen better-written trashy teen love novels, actually.

Well, those novels have the slightest bit of believability, whereas I lose that with Shan as soon as the porky ginger kid starts going on adventures and finds he is capable of destroying demons with his magical mind-powers.

Oh! Maybe someone will have the guts to recommend Twilight, so that we may descend upon them like literate vultures.

Ahem.

I am an avid reader. That's hardly news. However, I was wondering who else felt the same adoration and envy for great authors and their works. I'd also like to suggest discussing the themes of books. (And on a side note, I'd prefer this -didn't- descend into a rant about Twilight. We already have threads for that.)

 

[Alex_P]

Werepossum, have you ever read anything by John Keegan? He's a military historian with an encyclopedic knowledge of military history and theory. Amazing. I have two books by him, The Face of Battle, which I loved, and The History of Warfare, which I periodically take a stab at and never get very far, because his prose is so dense.

I've read those, too!

Another one I'd recommend is Chris Hedges' War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning. I think in particular it complements what A History of Warfare says about war and culture. It's philosophical and personal, though I'd call it polemic as well. Wonderful if you can forgive its excesses, just like Keegan's History (Keegan's excess being all that stuff about Clausewitz).

-- Alex

 

[werepossum]

Werepossum, have you ever read anything by John Keegan? He's a military historian with an encyclopedic knowledge of military history and theory. Amazing. I have two books by him, The Face of Battle, which I loved, and The History of Warfare, which I periodically take a stab at and never get very far, because his prose is so dense.

I've read those, too!

Another one I'd recommend is Chris Hedges' War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning. I think in particular it complements what A History of Warfare says about war and culture. It's philosophical and personal, though I'd call it polemic as well. Wonderful if you can forgive its excesses, just like Keegan's History (Keegan's excess being all that stuff about Clausewitz).

-- Alex

Keegan had a thing about Clausewitz, who seemed pretty sharp to me (although I am in no way a historian or military expert, or otherwise qualified to properly evaluate either.) S.L.A. Marshall had a thing about soldiers not firing their weapons, claimed that only 10% or so fired their weapons in a firefight when his own raw material showed that to be untrue. Whiting had a persecution complex about Montgomery not being given his due. Even the best have the occasional blind spot.

King made me think of horror, which made me think of Raymond Feist - I don't much care for most of his fantasy, but he did an excellent horror/dark fantasy novel about the old changeling swap meme that is excellent.

Another excellent author is Charles de Lint, who specializes in modern fantasy based in a fictional city in Canada and interweaving both New and Old World mythology. It's hard to do really good fantasy in modern settings, and he does it very well indeed. He writes about society's losers, abandoned, misfits, and generally worn-down people in a way that is both reasonably realistic and yet highlights their strengths. In particular, Someplace to be Flying is just flat-out beautiful prose.

 

[Labyrinth]

And on that note. Another question. Does one good book redeem a lifetime of textual diarrhoea?

 

[ThaBenMan]

King made me think of horror, which made me think of Raymond Feist - I don't much care for most of his fantasy, but he did an excellent horror/dark fantasy novel about the old changeling swap meme that is excellent.

Another excellent author is Charles de Lint, who specializes in modern fantasy based in a fictional city in Canada and interweaving both New and Old World mythology. It's hard to do really good fantasy in modern settings, and he does it very well indeed. He writes about society's losers, abandoned, misfits, and generally worn-down people in a way that is both reasonably realistic and yet highlights their strengths. In particular, Someplace to be Flying is just flat-out beautiful prose.

The Feist novel was called Faerie Tale, I believe, and yeah, it was great. I also read one of those de Lint books, Trader, about a guitar maker who switches bodies with a loser asshole. That was good too, kind of reminds me of Neil Gaiman, another great writer.

 

[Labyrinth]

I finished Crime And Punishment today. Holy fuck. Talk about a psychological trip. The main character goes from confidence to breakdown to utter submission to his fate, and in a manner of such incredible elegance, it's left me stunned.

Recommendation to anyone interested in psychology or criminology.

 

[meatloaf231]

I finished Crime And Punishment today. Holy fuck. Talk about a psychological trip. The main character goes from confidence to breakdown to utter submission to his fate, and in a manner of such incredible elegance, it's left me stunned.

Recommendation to anyone interested in psychology or criminology.

Totally reading that right now for my class.

Totally loving it.

 

[sammyfreak]

Currently re-reading "The Brothers Karamazov" for the third time (will finish it this time) and am loving it as much as ever. The book really shines a light on how people should act compared to how they do.
.

Why haven't you finished it? I'm curious because I've been struggling to get into the book for a while before giving up. So if anyone has any tips on how to understand it better I'd be grateful. I've never been able to get very far into it but I've found it a bit of a slog (no Ulysses though). I think my main problem is that I'm never quite sure how much of the original meaning of the artist is kept in translations, I've almost been afraid of reading into it too much. I recognise the psychological awareness of the novel but I don't think I've seen anything proving that "Everything there was to know about life was in The Brothers Karamazov". Maybe its just that I haven't read enough of it, or am approaching it with the wrong mindset? any ideas?

And just to give my own view of some literature, I've been reading DH Lawrence recently and he's just a fantastic writer. His work has lot most of its shock factor (labelled pornographic at the time of release) but he really does describe his subject matter well on every level.

The trick with Karamazov (or most Dovstoevsky books) is to get past the introduction, if you finished the "unapropriate gathering" part and diden't feel anything special then this book isen't for you. When reading it don't try to slog throught it for to long, but read a bit and think about it, swish it around in your mouth (mind) like you would a glass of fine wine.

There are a few contextual things you need to understand, the most important is that Dovstoevsky had a son named Alyosha who died when he was 4 and it was in the grief over that the book is written. So Alyosha (Aleksey Fyodorovich Karamazov) is supposed to represent the wholly good and loving character, the ultimate christian. The book very much is his magnus opus and is the collection of his life's ideas and though. Also note that he named the Dad (the horrible and evil person) after himself.

Read it for the conversations, the dialogue and monologue, (page after page of paragraphless text <3) the story is just a means to understand the conversations; An Unapropriate Gathering, The Grand Inquisitor, Alyoshas meeting with Mitja, The Last Recolections of the Elder Zosima.

Something else you have to consider are the names. In Russia everybody has three names, their name, a variation of their dads name and their family name. So Mitja is actualy Dimitri Fyodorovich Karamazov. Reference Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamazov#Major_characters] for more info about the names and such.

And on that note. Another question. Does one good book redeem a lifetime of textual diarrhoea?

Ofcourse it does, a great book is great no matter who wrote it and artists should be remembered for their greatest art.

 

[Padawanabee]

Crime and Punishment was slow, but it had it's moments. Somewhere between the upstanding Russian gent axe murdering a supposed thieving old crone and her sister, and the way Marmaladov rolls off the tongue, I was able to get through the slower parts. I say slower not because they were unintersting, but because following the mental breakdown can be taxing, and it's a long trip.

1984 had a nice setting. War=peace and doublethink were fun in class discussion. It's a good thing all the characters were unlikable, though, or the ending would have killed it for me.

 

[werepossum]

And on that note. Another question. Does one good book redeem a lifetime of textual diarrhoea?

I think it does unless you HAD to read said lifetime of textual diarrhea. In that case, no. But I think many writers only have one really good story in them.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

The trick with Karamazov (or most Dovstoevsky books) is to get past the introduction, if you finished the "unapropriate gathering" part and diden't feel anything special then this book isen't for you. When reading it don't try to slog throught it for to long, but read a bit and think about it, swish it around in your mouth (mind) like you would a glass of fine wine.

Read it for the conversations, the dialogue and monologue, (page after page of paragraphless text <3) the story is just a means to understand the conversations; An Unapropriate Gathering, The Grand Inquisitor, Alyoshas meeting with Mitja, The Last Recolections of the Elder Zosima.

Thanks, that is very helpful. I quit about halfway through 'An Inappropriate Gathering', I'll try and finish that section at least next time I try to read it.

 

[Labyrinth]

Hemmingway's Farewell To Arms calls me, and so far it's fascinating. The gritty, almost metallic telling of war is enough to send a shiver down ones spine. Empathic characters and delightful prose. Highly recommend.

 

[Ares Tyr]

Hurry up and read World War Z!

 

[Labyrinth]

Hurry up and read World War Z!

I need to find it first. And get to it after the 20-or-so other books glowering at me from my shelves.

They'll eat me if I don't read them. Just imagine it. Gnawed to death by bookworms, each syllable of my persona slowly stripped away... Ugh.

 

[Rabab_Thesus]

For a while, I didn't read anything. Last summer though, I just up and decided it was time to start again. I read the last Harry Potter finally (I just had to get it out of the way), but then I read this century old edition of "Robinhood" (spelled correctly); it was amazing! The ending is sad, because it's semi-factual (it's mostly legend, but told with the idea that he was real), but it was very fulfilling nonetheless.

Now I'm reading a whole series of books that my World History teacher recommended. Right now I'm stuck on the Holocaust, though. I read "Night" and "I Have Lived 1000 Years" (Night was cooler, but the latter was more... autobiographical, if you will), and soon I should be moving on to the quintessence of Holocaust literature: The Diary of Anne Frank. What's more, the play my theatre troupe is putting on for one-act competition is "A Child Shall Lead" which is also about the Holocaust.... Frankly I'm getting burned out on burning children....

I found a digital copy of "Canterbury Tales" that I'm excited about, and "1984" is on the list. I can't wait to get my copy!

 

[Labyrinth]

With all the discussion about Freud in the Dreams thread, I thought I'd make a mention of his work here.

I once skimmed through some of Freud's observations, and they were quite profound. Not being literature in the strictest sense, it is none the less a worthwhile read on the basis of better understanding your own psyche. He had a lot to say about the impacts of early childhood on the rest of ones life, and also on the connection of subconscious and conscious through dreams and the like.

Additionally, the term "Freudian slip" comes from the idea that at times, what is going on in the subconscious can affect what the conscious mind does in an accidental way.

 

[The Lyre]

With all the discussion about Freud in the Dreams thread, I thought I'd make a mention of his work here.

I once skimmed through some of Freud's observations, and they were quite profound. Not being literature in the strictest sense, it is none the less a worthwhile read on the basis of better understanding your own psyche. He had a lot to say about the impacts of early childhood on the rest of ones life, and also on the connection of subconscious and conscious through dreams and the like.

Additionally, the term "Freudian slip" comes from the idea that at times, what is going on in the subconscious can affect what the conscious mind does in an accidental way.

In my opinion, Freud had a brilliant mind, and psychoanalysis, I'm sure, is the reason why many of us haven't walked into the nearest supermarket and started gunning people down.

However, his theories and practices are, in my opinion, marred considerably by his social prejudices - particularly against women. If he had just kept social preconceptions outside of his work, he could have done a lot more.

 

[PAGEToap44]

I've started reading 1984 in my English class at school. So far I am bored out of my mind.