Living in Britain

[Parallel Streaks]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

 

[murphy7801]

I recently did a poll about the nationality of escapist users and it seems a lot of you live in the UK. For those that do, I have a question for you:

I am a web software developer in Canada, specializing in Flash / Flex, Coldfusion and some C# .NET stuff. I have seen a lot of jobs lately in the UK paying 40 - 60 K GBP annually, but I've also heard a lot of stories about how expensive it is to live there. Is 40 - 60 K a decent salary?

Currently my rent is 22% of my income, but a more typical number for Canadians would be 32%. Would I be able to get a decent place in Britain for 32% of 40 - 60 GBP? What's the average house price?

The UK is a pricey place to live.
The average rent for a house is about £300 a month, not including bills etc. Food for a month for one person is about £100, likely more depending on what you like to eat, as I'm a student and the cheapest I can eat for just over 3 weeks is around £90.
TO buy a house, expect to pay no less than around £120,000 and that's for a dump. If you are wanting to live down south, expect to pay over double for nothing special.
That all said, 40k is a nice salary which would have you living more than comfortably if you did not have any baggage e.g. kids and/or spouse.
The only big ***** at the moment is with buying a house, the banks expect to see a fat-ass deposit from you e.g. 10% of the overall house price. Still, my folks managed to sell a house which had only been up for about 3 months, so maybe there are some good deals going around with morgages.

Overall the UK is expensive to live in but the health care is free. However, what you want to ask is "Is the UK a nice place to live?". In my opinion: not really.
The view of society is very grey - like the weather e.g. "You can't say that" and ultra-PC. Expected to be blasted by everyone if you have views on anything.

If you think you can live with that then 40k+ is a fairly nice pay packet.
Good luck with making a decision.

house price isn't double in the south I live hertfordshire and isn't that expensive.

 

[Parallel Streaks]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

well appears I live in the only ok area

 

[Insanum]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

Dont take this the wrong way but your crime stats are little high for my liking.

 

[laughing man z]

It really does depend on where in UK. london is about 40% more expensive in every way you can imagine than say manchester. renting or mortgauge in the NW of england should really cost no more than £600 a month if living alone and thats living in a fairly affluent area. i think unless you are living in london. £40-60k a year is very good. i think you`d be mad to leave canada as its where id move to by choice! i only earn £38K a year but with my partners income we reach about 52K and its comfortable enough. the grass is always greener as they say. fuel prices are defianately higher tho, as is the overall cost of running a vehicle over here. and its getting worse.

 

[Parallel Streaks]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

well appears I live in the only ok area

You think you do, but my guess is most of your neighbours and or nearby-people constantly have a chat about the slightest of questionable acts on your behalf. They do it to me, they do it to everyone. Even each other, when in a one-on-one conversation with somebody.

 

[TPiddy]

Hmm, sounds interesting! I think I may have to visit first and get a sampling of the culture.... though I will have a hard time living in a country that has produced 1, maybe 2 NHL players in their entire history .

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

well appears I live in the only ok area

You think you do, but my guess is most of your neighbours and or nearby-people constantly have a chat about the slightest of questionable acts on your behalf. They do it to me, they do it to everyone. Even each other, when in a one-on-one conversation with somebody.

No not really no even knows anyone who isn't there direct next door neighbor no one even bother me ever mainly because I look respectable also the sort community I live in though sadly is changing but just in my housing district.

 

[TPiddy]

Also, I'm not sure if I'll even be able to, as my girlfriend has experience in the Financial sector and would likely have to get all of the UK equivalent certifications and such. Do Financial positions there pay well?

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

nothing personal http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-manchester.html

 

[murphy7801]

Also, I'm not sure if I'll even be able to, as my girlfriend has experience in the Financial sector and would likely have to get all of the UK equivalent certifications and such. Do Financial positions there pay well?

They all got made redundant due to the recession. But if she can get work yes!

 

[Insanum]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

Dont take this the wrong way but your crime stats are little high for my liking.

You missed what i did there.

Tbh around where i live there are...Un-savory people BUT its not that bad.

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

Dont take this the wrong way but your crime stats are little high for my liking.

You missed what i did there.

Tbh around where i live there are...Un-savory people BUT its not that bad.

I wouldnt want to live in place where the crime rate is very high not saying anything wrong with everyone who lives there just really wouldnt want live there. And yes very nice goes hand in hand with the high gun crime lol

 

[Parallel Streaks]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

well appears I live in the only ok area

You think you do, but my guess is most of your neighbours and or nearby-people constantly have a chat about the slightest of questionable acts on your behalf. They do it to me, they do it to everyone. Even each other, when in a one-on-one conversation with somebody.

No not really no even knows anyone who isn't there direct next door neighbor no one even bother me ever mainly because I look respectable also the sort community I live in though sadly is changing but just in my housing district.

So you live in a cold, tense housing district where nobody talks each other above the slightest of pleasantries?

Sounds lovely, get me a brochure, would yah?

 

[TPiddy]

Hmmm, you guys are making me think Canada is not so bad! So I shouldn't be 'lured' by the big salary number and the math involved to convert that to Canadian.

 

[murphy7801]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

Then you get the class snobs, who won't talk to you because you're not the right sort, you're one of those Canucks, they can't be seen with you. THEN there's the man-folk, a bunch of over testosterone-flouting idiots. They stumble around, grunting how fit that bird is by the bar and making stupid comments about cunnilingus.

Then when you DO find cool people, you find most of us are pretty two-faced and bitchy. We're all at each others throats, no matter how much of a good fit we really are, one comment could kick off boat loads of drama. We're all cold, dicks, and we don't want to do anything.

1If you think you can put up with ALL OF THAT, welcome to merry old England, we have tonnes more problems I haven't told you about. Ha-Enjoy.

P.S.: Apart from everything, and the things I haven't mentioned, I'd be overjoyed to have an intelligent person somewhere in England, it seems like the small amount who are on the Escapist are the only ones who are reasonably intelligent. Please excuse my jaded point of view and the bluntness with which I spoke it, but I didn't want to see you come here unprepared.

You live in Manchester enough said.

Yes, people in other places are perfectly nice people, including the wonderful gentleman in London who cut my torso down the center, the lovely charming old man who stole all of my money in Liverpool and left me for dead, the merry old lady who lets her cat shit in my parents front garden over in Bath, and the nice BIIIIIG gang of hoody wearing idiots in London who shout abuse at me every time I so much as walk passed.

We're a big nation of fun.

well appears I live in the only ok area

You think you do, but my guess is most of your neighbours and or nearby-people constantly have a chat about the slightest of questionable acts on your behalf. They do it to me, they do it to everyone. Even each other, when in a one-on-one conversation with somebody.

No not really no even knows anyone who isn't there direct next door neighbor no one even bother me ever mainly because I look respectable also the sort community I live in though sadly is changing but just in my housing district.

So you live in a cold, tense housing district where nobody talks each other above the slightest of pleasantries?

Sounds lovely, get me a brochure, would yah?

http://www.hertspa.org/news/14113958/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemel_Hempstead
done

 

[Insanum]

Hmm, that's a good point... I wasn't sure whether I'd want to buy or just rent, see if I enjoyed it....

I have an English/Scottish background and like a lot of British staples like heavy metal, classic rock, golf, etc. I think I would fit in well there.

Everyone thinks they'll fit in here. Then they come here.

Then they get berated by several hoody-adorned troglodyte chavs, all shouting phrases to the effect of "OI MATE, YOU IS WELLZ GAY INIT, LAAAAAAAAHH!". You get that over twenty times a day where I live, just outside Manchester, one of the mother major cities. From what I've heard in most areas of London it can be just as bad.

You live in Manchester enough said.

*cocks shotgun* Watch what you say. I live just west of manchester.

OT: 40-60k is a Very good salary. Go for it!

Dont take this the wrong way but your crime stats are little high for my liking.

You missed what i did there.

Tbh around where i live there are...Un-savory people BUT its not that bad.

I wouldnt want to live in place where the crime rate is very high not saying anything wrong with everyone who lives there just really wouldnt want live there. And yes very nice goes hand in hand with the high gun crime lol

The thing is, crime rates are good on paper, But they're complete shite with the area they cover.

Manchester is a big place, And just like in london there are nice parts, There are also VERY rough parts, That would push the rates up.