Living off the grid

[theSHAH]

After numerous frustrations with the local power company my household is looking to alternate sources of power. I've just begun browsing through solar panels, and I don't believe it would be practical to live off a noisy generator (correct me if wrong), anyone have any advice? Anyone correctly living off the grid?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

 

[DannyJBeckett]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

This. As they stand, renewable sources that can be fitted onto your home are simply way too inefficient to allow you to life off the grid. Unless you turn the entire outer-surface of your home into solar panels (and even if you do), then you're not going to get anything close to the amount of power supplied by the grid.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Renewable energy excells at being able to supplement your energy needs, and can reduce your energy bills massively if used wisely, but I've heard of very few people that have managed to go completely off the grid, and they always have something like their own personal hydroelectric dam in their backyard, or a hydrogen production facility [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=hydrogen-house].

The problem with Wind and Solar Panels is that they are unreliable, and their energy cannot be stored (unless you turn your garage into a hydrogen production facility as I said before) solar panels don't work at all during the night, when having some lights would be pretty handy, and wind turbines work only when it's windy, which, for the largish ones is about 33% of the time (the smaller ones wouldn't produce enough energy to boil an egg, don't bother with them) If you did want to go off the grid you best be prepared for a big, high-tech answer, not just a few solar panels nailed to the roof.

The major drawback is that these systems cost several tens of thousands to buy and install. The solar panel-hydrogen tank combo is actually quite a good system, and if you can afford the initial buyers costs and maintainance I would say go for it, otherwise making it up to your power provider would be the smartest option (what sort of problems are you having with them?)

EDIT: http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2009/03/newberg_man_dreams_then_create.html Here's an article from a man who seems to have a lot of experience in Hydrogen production and stuff, and here's the quote: "The upfront cost to make your own hydrogen can be high, though tax credits mitigate it. Fouhy estimates it would cost at least $100,000 for an electrolyser and solar panels." Yeah. that's quite a lot of money up front.

 

[Hashime]

Look up "Off the Grid" by Les Stroud A.k.a. Survivor Man. His family took said initiative and have been fairly successful. They are also not hippies, so it is a real house with all modern essentials.
Actually, here is a link: http://www.documentarywire.com/les-stroud-off-the-grid

 

[Korolev]

I know people who did try to live off the grid. They couldn't do it without giving up a lot of their everyday conveniences. If you want to live off the grid, you are going to have to make sacrifices. Depending on how much your electric company charges you, you might think it is worth it.

Currently, no "off-the-shelf" technology that can be assembled by everyday sorts of people like you or me can help you live entirely off the grid. Solar Panels are great at reducing your power consumption and electricity bills, and I recommend you get a couple, but unless you have a lake of molten salt under your house which you can use to store the heat gained from the solar panels, you're not going to be able to depend on solar or wind power entirely. If you are lucky to live near a geothermal vent (as people in Japan and Iceland and Hawaii sometimes do), then conceivably you could convince your neighbours to invest in some sort of heat-based power generation system.... but it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not over a million and it would require full time monitoring and maintenance.

Believe me, if there was a cheap and easy way to live off the grid that did not require a sacrifice to your present modern day lifestyle... almost everyone would do it. You couldn't keep a secret like that. For the moment though, living off the grid is an option only available to the mega-rich who can afford the technology, or survivalist hermits who want to live in wood-cabins to prepare for the "inevitable collapse".

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I know people who did try to live off the grid. They couldn't do it without giving up a lot of their everyday conveniences. If you want to live off the grid, you are going to have to make sacrifices. Depending on how much your electric company charges you, you might think it is worth it.

Currently, no "off-the-shelf" technology that can be assembled by everyday sorts of people like you or me can help you live entirely off the grid. Solar Panels are great at reducing your power consumption and electricity bills, and I recommend you get a couple, but unless you have a lake of molten salt under your house which you can use to store the heat gained from the solar panels, you're not going to be able to depend on solar or wind power entirely. If you are lucky to live near a geothermal vent (as people in Japan and Iceland and Hawaii sometimes do), then conceivably you could convince your neighbours to invest in some sort of heat-based power generation system.... but it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not over a million and it would require full time monitoring and maintenance.

Believe me, if there was a cheap and easy way to live off the grid that did not require a sacrifice to your present modern day lifestyle... almost everyone would do it. You couldn't keep a secret like that. For the moment though, living off the grid is an option only available to the mega-rich who can afford the technology, or survivalist hermits who want to live in wood-cabins to prepare for the "inevitable collapse".

You've said it brilliantly. Heck, if there was a way for me to afford a place and take it off the grid I think I would. It just isn't practical yet for those of us who lack the money or don't want to give up a bunch of conveniences.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

Don't expect to not have to severely cut back on your current power usage, and be prepared for a lot of manual labor to install it and keep it up. You'll want to get to know the wattages of all your outlets and major appliances, and you'll have to keep track of who is using what at what time. And if you're going off of wind or solar, you are going to NEED a generator of some sort because weather is never 100%, so you will never have 100% power.

So if you have the time, money, patience, and willingness to sacrifice, go ahead. Personally, I'd just strive to supplement my power, not completely replace it. At least until some reliable and effective alternative comes up, if/when I become a homeowner I will be content with the grid.

 

[direkiller]

After numerous frustrations with the local power company my household is looking to alternate sources of power. I've just begun browsing through solar panels, and I don't believe it would be practical to live off a noisy generator (correct me if wrong), anyone have any advice? Anyone correctly living off the grid?

yes a generator is generly not cost effective
Solar pannles are about $95 per Sf + the cost of the lead/leadoxide battery($10,000-$20,000+ depending on the household size and I don't think that will get you entirely off the grid) its not even an option for suburban areas if your roof dose not have a south facing side

the battery also dose not work well in the cold so hope you have space somewhere in your house

Omnidirectiona wind turbines are not a bad option its a bit easier on the eye(they look better then some modern art i see around town) and will take up less space(again probably wont get you entirely off the grid unless your willing to drop ALOT of money into it)
here is a few pictures they stand about 6-8 feet+ pole that there on
http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/helix8.jpg
http://www.yougen.co.uk/i/blog/125042938409762_thumb.1250433444.jpg

 

[direkiller]

The problem with Wind and Solar Panels is that they are unreliable, and their energy cannot be stored (unless you turn your garage into a hydrogen production facility as I said before) solar panels don't work at all during the night, when having some lights would be pretty handy, and wind turbines work only when it's windy, which, for the largish ones is about 33% of the time (the smaller ones wouldn't produce enough energy to boil an egg, don't bother with them) If you did want to go off the grid you best be prepared for a big, high-tech answer, not just a few solar panels nailed to the roof.

You cant plug a solar panel into a wall(for one its the wrong current type and two the power spikes and wains so much with them you would probably break something if you plug directly into it)
all home systems involve a lead/lead-oxide battery it evens out the power levels and runs it by an alternator and stores excess so your power doesn't just shut off when it is dark

 

[spartan231490]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

Actually, solar power is relatively easy to power a house with. Modern systems will give you all the power you need. Hell, I know a family that has panels at least 20 years old, and half as many as they could have, and they only need to burn about $100 of fuel in their generator a year. And we don't live in an ideal area. So long as you don't live in the absolute worst area for sunny days, you can run a house on solar power.

 

[Agayek]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

It depends on where you are. As long as you have a decent view of the horizon, you can generate more power than you will ever need with a proper solar panel arrangement.

Another alternative I've heard about is Geothermal power. It generates power by passing water 6-8 feet underground, letting the ground heat the water to "room temperature", then pumping the water back to the surface where you drain off the heat and start the cycle over again. I've heard good things about it, and my mom's going to put it to use in the retirement house she's having built, but I don't know any more about it.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

Actually, solar power is relatively easy to power a house with. Modern systems will give you all the power you need. Hell, I know a family that has panels at least 20 years old, and half as many as they could have, and they only need to burn about $100 of fuel in their generator a year. And we don't live in an ideal area. So long as you don't live in the absolute worst area for sunny days, you can run a house on solar power.

Yes which is exactly what you need to think about we haven't been given any information on his area and what the sun light hours or intensity is like at all. Where I am from it is not sufficient and you also have to take into account cloudy days where the light is less intense which is why a back up is needed. There is a reason that panel is 20 years old as solar panels take roughly 20 years to start making back the money it costs to install and make them generally speaking.

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

It depends on where you are. As long as you have a decent view of the horizon, you can generate more power than you will ever need with a proper solar panel arrangement.

Another alternative I've heard about is Geothermal power. It generates power by passing water 6-8 feet underground, letting the ground heat the water to "room temperature", then pumping the water back to the surface where you drain off the heat and start the cycle over again. I've heard good things about it, and my mom's going to put it to use in the retirement house she's having built, but I don't know any more about it.

Yes it does which is why I am saying it is not possible 100% of the time. I never said it wasn't a good system but you will need a back up generator and some fuel to power which is why I said I doubt as we are given no information so I need to speak on general terms.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

There is no way to have a constant uninterrupted power source created by the natural environment. Unless you have a river near by that doesn't freeze in the winter or something. You are always going to need to rely on the electric company. However, if you spend the extra time to not waste electricity and add solar panels the price should go down significantly.

I used to live in a apartment that I kept at 80 degrees in the summer, I just had a fan blowing in the breeze from outside. All my lights had those CFL bulbs and I never used them during daylight hours. Oh and when I wasn't rinsing or trying to get wet in the shower I turned it off while I shampoo, condition, brush teeth, etc. So I don't have the water heater running constantly.

Thats all the tips I can give you that are far easier to do than build a dam.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

How expensive are gyroscope batteries nowadays?

 

[Ickorus]

Solar power is great, any power that you don't use will go straight into the system and actually earn you money.

That's the way it is in England, at least.

Oh yeah, and make sure that if you do end up using solar power that your panels are facing in the right direction.

 

[spartan231490]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

Actually, solar power is relatively easy to power a house with. Modern systems will give you all the power you need. Hell, I know a family that has panels at least 20 years old, and half as many as they could have, and they only need to burn about $100 of fuel in their generator a year. And we don't live in an ideal area. So long as you don't live in the absolute worst area for sunny days, you can run a house on solar power.

Yes which is exactly what you need to think about we haven't been given any information on his area and what the sun light hours or intensity is like at all. Where I am from it is not sufficient and you also have to take into account cloudy days where the light is less intense which is why a back up is needed. There is a reason that panel is 20 years old as solar panels take roughly 20 years to start making back the money it costs to install and make them generally speaking.

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

It depends on where you are. As long as you have a decent view of the horizon, you can generate more power than you will ever need with a proper solar panel arrangement.

Another alternative I've heard about is Geothermal power. It generates power by passing water 6-8 feet underground, letting the ground heat the water to "room temperature", then pumping the water back to the surface where you drain off the heat and start the cycle over again. I've heard good things about it, and my mom's going to put it to use in the retirement house she's having built, but I don't know any more about it.

Yes it does which is why I am saying it is not possible 100% of the time. I never said it wasn't a good system but you will need a back up generator and some fuel to power which is why I said I doubt as we are given no information so I need to speak on general terms.

The people I know, their panels paid for themselves in 5 years. Their panel is 20 years old because they bought it 20 years ago and it's given them almost all the power they need. $100 a year isn't enough to justify an upgrade.

Also, they live in the adirondack park, which is not high intensity or long duration of sun. If you can do it here, you can do it almost anywhere. The only place I wouldn't want to try it is like Seattle, or above 60 degrees latitude.

Solar power is a viable source of power in most regions, with modern panels and a modern battery system most people will not even need a back-up generator. Yes it's smart to have one, in case of a 1 in 10 year winter storm that lasts for days and days, but most people wouldn't even use it most years.

Also, a lot more solar energy makes it through cloud cover than you think. Even old systems can power a house on cloudy days.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

Actually, solar power is relatively easy to power a house with. Modern systems will give you all the power you need. Hell, I know a family that has panels at least 20 years old, and half as many as they could have, and they only need to burn about $100 of fuel in their generator a year. And we don't live in an ideal area. So long as you don't live in the absolute worst area for sunny days, you can run a house on solar power.

Yes which is exactly what you need to think about we haven't been given any information on his area and what the sun light hours or intensity is like at all. Where I am from it is not sufficient and you also have to take into account cloudy days where the light is less intense which is why a back up is needed. There is a reason that panel is 20 years old as solar panels take roughly 20 years to start making back the money it costs to install and make them generally speaking.

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

It depends on where you are. As long as you have a decent view of the horizon, you can generate more power than you will ever need with a proper solar panel arrangement.

Another alternative I've heard about is Geothermal power. It generates power by passing water 6-8 feet underground, letting the ground heat the water to "room temperature", then pumping the water back to the surface where you drain off the heat and start the cycle over again. I've heard good things about it, and my mom's going to put it to use in the retirement house she's having built, but I don't know any more about it.

Yes it does which is why I am saying it is not possible 100% of the time. I never said it wasn't a good system but you will need a back up generator and some fuel to power which is why I said I doubt as we are given no information so I need to speak on general terms.

The people I know, their panels paid for themselves in 5 years. Their panel is 20 years old because they bought it 20 years ago and it's given them almost all the power they need. $100 a year isn't enough to justify an upgrade.

Also, they live in the adirondack park, which is not high intensity or long duration of sun. If you can do it here, you can do it almost anywhere. The only place I wouldn't want to try it is like Seattle, or above 60 degrees latitude.

Solar power is a viable source of power in most regions, with modern panels and a modern battery system most people will not even need a back-up generator. Yes it's smart to have one, in case of a 1 in 10 year winter storm that lasts for days and days, but most people wouldn't even use it most years.

Also, a lot more solar energy makes it through cloud cover than you think. Even old systems can power a house on cloudy days.

Yes I'm sure it did pay for themselves in 5 years but in general terms which we have to speak as we aren't given any info is that they pay for themselves in 20 years. It really depends on the area and if you could give some info about that area that would be fine.

I'm not even really going to get into why battery systems aren't that great in terms of environment and usage as that isn't really the issue here so I'll just say yes they can be used.

If it was really viable it would already be on most people's homes in most regions. As I said solar panels do work on cloudy days it just isn't as effective but if you really want figures on stuff like this you can just use Google Scholar.

 

[similar.squirrel]

Unless you're living beside a raging torrent of some description and have the means to build a turbine, you can forget about complete self-sufficiency.

 

[spartan231490]

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

Actually, solar power is relatively easy to power a house with. Modern systems will give you all the power you need. Hell, I know a family that has panels at least 20 years old, and half as many as they could have, and they only need to burn about $100 of fuel in their generator a year. And we don't live in an ideal area. So long as you don't live in the absolute worst area for sunny days, you can run a house on solar power.

Yes which is exactly what you need to think about we haven't been given any information on his area and what the sun light hours or intensity is like at all. Where I am from it is not sufficient and you also have to take into account cloudy days where the light is less intense which is why a back up is needed. There is a reason that panel is 20 years old as solar panels take roughly 20 years to start making back the money it costs to install and make them generally speaking.

Em I doubt you could run your power on renewable sources alone as at the moment the technology is not enough to give you 100% of the power you need 100% of the time so other than having a backup generator for oil/natural gas/biofuel for when solar/wind won't cut it I have no advice.

It depends on where you are. As long as you have a decent view of the horizon, you can generate more power than you will ever need with a proper solar panel arrangement.

Another alternative I've heard about is Geothermal power. It generates power by passing water 6-8 feet underground, letting the ground heat the water to "room temperature", then pumping the water back to the surface where you drain off the heat and start the cycle over again. I've heard good things about it, and my mom's going to put it to use in the retirement house she's having built, but I don't know any more about it.

Yes it does which is why I am saying it is not possible 100% of the time. I never said it wasn't a good system but you will need a back up generator and some fuel to power which is why I said I doubt as we are given no information so I need to speak on general terms.

The people I know, their panels paid for themselves in 5 years. Their panel is 20 years old because they bought it 20 years ago and it's given them almost all the power they need. $100 a year isn't enough to justify an upgrade.

Also, they live in the adirondack park, which is not high intensity or long duration of sun. If you can do it here, you can do it almost anywhere. The only place I wouldn't want to try it is like Seattle, or above 60 degrees latitude.

Solar power is a viable source of power in most regions, with modern panels and a modern battery system most people will not even need a back-up generator. Yes it's smart to have one, in case of a 1 in 10 year winter storm that lasts for days and days, but most people wouldn't even use it most years.

Also, a lot more solar energy makes it through cloud cover than you think. Even old systems can power a house on cloudy days.

Yes I'm sure it did pay for themselves in 5 years but in general terms which we have to speak as we aren't given any info is that they pay for themselves in 20 years. It really depends on the area and if you could give some info about that area that would be fine.

I'm not even really going to get into why battery systems aren't that great in terms of environment and usage as that isn't really the issue here so I'll just say yes they can be used.

If it was really viable it would already be on most people's homes in most regions. As I said solar panels do work on cloudy days it just isn't as effective but if you really want figures on stuff like this you can just use Google Scholar.

I've been researching solar power for several years on and off. I've researched it for several school projects with varying aims, and I've also researched it for several family members who are considering getting it to power their homes and who trust my scientific knowledge and judgement more than their own.