lock thread please

[Lufia Erim]

True polyamory requires the parties involved to know about what's going on. Aside from that it can take multiple forms from 'Swingers' to open relationships to "harem" style abusive messes of people.

Cheating requires lies and is an abuse of trust. People take it hard because someone who you trusted and were close to has lied to you and done so in a big way, sometimes there can be explanations for it but it's pretty much always bad to some degree, that's why it's so heavily frowned on by modern societies.

Did you misunderstand the question? Is cheating more socially acceptable in comparaison to polyamoury. Basically if you were caught cheating or you were "caught" in a polyamourous relationship, which would have the biggest societal consrquence?

While everything you said was true. It doesn't really explain which is least acceptable in the eyes of society and why.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Wait what? Really? What a silly question. Is breaking the rules of your relationship more socially acceptable than following rules that were mutually consented to? I don't get it, how could people view polyamory as cheating? You can't decide what constitutes cheating for other people, that's fucked.

Maybe I'm just hanging out with the right people but I've never felt judged or anything, and people know about what my fiancé and I get up to.

It's silly but society is made up of all kinds of arbitrary rules. Of course there are many different factors so this is mainly an "in general" non scientific kind of observation.

I think , generally speaking, a person who cheats ( on their partner)would be received than a couple engaged in a polyamourous relationship.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Cheating is viewed as 'worse' because it's based on lies and deceit.

Polyamorous relationships are mutually understood and accepted by the parties involved...so it's just recognized as weird and outside the accepted norm, or something others couldn't see themselves doing rather than as an outright negative thing.

So, no, I don't think cheating is more 'socially acceptable' just because it happens a lot.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Since we're going with socially acceptable, then I'm pretty sure polyamory is worse. You list good examples of many people bouncing back in their careers after they are caught cheating. I put forth that those people, especially people in politics, would not even have a career if they were in a polyamory relationship. When Mitt ran for President, he had to fight the rumors that, since he was Mormon, that meant that he had multiple wives, and that rumor nearly destroyed his campaign.

See, I think what it boils down to is that a lot of people view polyamory as wrong. They view cheating as wrong too, but that's often viewed more as a "heat of the moment mistake" by a lot of people--even though a lot of the time it is not the heat of the moment. Meanwhile, polyamory is viewed as a person knowing what they're doing, choosing to do something that is socially unacceptable--and people do consider it cheating too--and doing it anyway, again and again and again. That rubs people the wrong way, even if all participating parties are perfectly fine with it.
The mindset of "One man, one woman" is a very old, very engrained mindset. Breaking it causes a great many people to come down hard in terms of social judgment.

To me personally, I think cheating is worse. Polyamory, at least everyone knows and is still willing to go with it. I'd never be in a relationship like that, but I understand that some people are okay with it.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Acceptable, no. More common to see, of course.

Though I think polyamorous relationships are seen as "not acceptable" enough to generally not put them out in the open, I'd say.

Mostly based on generally societal expectations of monogamy and such.

 

[vallorn]

True polyamory requires the parties involved to know about what's going on. Aside from that it can take multiple forms from 'Swingers' to open relationships to "harem" style abusive messes of people.

Cheating requires lies and is an abuse of trust. People take it hard because someone who you trusted and were close to has lied to you and done so in a big way, sometimes there can be explanations for it but it's pretty much always bad to some degree, that's why it's so heavily frowned on by modern societies.

Did you misunderstand the question? Is cheating more socially acceptable in comparaison to polyamoury. Basically if you were caught cheating or you were "caught" in a polyamourous relationship, which would have the biggest societal consrquence?

While everything you said was true. It doesn't really explain which is least acceptable in the eyes of society and why.

Since nobody is getting hurt in a polyamorous relationship, the most you are likely to get is a "weirdo" tag socially. Cheating will get a large group of people actually angry at you for a long period and it also makes people distrust you because "If you are willing to lie to someone you said you loved to that degree, how can I trust you?".

Being a 'weirdo' can be socially detrimental but it doesn't stick as much or damage social relationships as much as a violation of trust does.

 

[jademunky]

Yes. Cheating is an act of infidelity in the life of a person who is committed to a monagmous lifestyle. Polyamoury is a lifestyle. For people who view polyamoury as cheating, it isn't merely an act of cheating, its spending your life basking in it.

Yeah pretty-much this.

I have this weird irrational reflex at the idea of the dynamics of a poly relationship. It immediately tries to nudge me into thinking of the type of people involved in it as being either Category A: A bunch of sex maniacs who sleep in a big pile like some really sweaty hamsters. Or category B: FLDS types with an insane dogmatic husband and 20 wives locked in a struggle, scheming against one another to win the favour of her husband (essentially the most petty version of "Game of Thrones" ever)

Cheating, on the other hand, while reprehensible, is at least fairly straightforward.

 

[FPLOON]

Cheating is "bad", but polyamory is "misunderstood" and/or "mistaken" for cheating... So, neither is socially acceptable because the formal's seen as morally wrong and the latter's more mistaken for the formal...

Other than that, unless more info is given, the mindset might not change to something a bit more "positive", for example...

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Hrm. Hard to say. See, I don't talk to people about polyamory. I know my best friend is okay with it but wouldn't engage in it, but she isn't your typical person (and she's great for that).

I like to think we're moving towards acceptance of it. But I just don't feel I know the general populace well enough. I know there are hold outs but I can't say how common they are.

Oh also, fucking hate cheating. It's a betrayal and there are few circumstances where I think it is warranted. I also find it hard to see even love as a justification to do it since you can avoid it being cheating with honesty and the power of break up. It's a mistake but it's a premeditated one so it's hard to not judge poorly. I know how it is doing the wrong thing and trying to fool yourself that it was impulse. Not on cheating, on far more petty things. But I think we all know what that's like and it's why I judge cheating harshly. I don't believe it's merely impulse or the like

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

By a long way. Perhaps it has to do with the prevalence of divorce, the less religiousness of marriages today or even that many places now treat divorce as "no fault" regardless of reasons for marriage breakdown, but it is far and away more socially acceptable to lie, cheat, go behind one's partner's back, break their marriage vows and betray them with another partner than it is for three people to openly love each other.

Polygamous marriage is illegal. Cheating on one's spouse is not. I don't think there's anything illegal about polygamous relationships, just marriages. But it's not a socially accepted practise, at least not here in the west. In the Middle-East, many muslim countries permit men to have four wives (and many do). It is absurd that lying, cheating and breaking a wedding vow is forgiveable while wishing to honestly and openly love more than one other person is abhorrent, but c'est la vie.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Monogamy is monogamy. One partner. Anything else is cheating. You can call it by any name you want.

I've heard it argued that monogamy isn't natural behavior. Given that natural behavior is to bash anything you don't like with rocks, immediately and without discussion, I'm going to go ahead and call that argument stupid. I've also heard it said there is no such thing as love or commitment and therefore no such thing as cheating. I'm sure it seems legit to the people saying it but plenty of awful things make perfect sense to greedy, disrespectful, emotionally crippled people. To me it feels like a lame attempt to justify reprehensible behavior. Half the people I know have been cheated on. Not a single one of them said, "Oh, it's fine, there's no such thing as betrayal."

I suppose if everyone involved understands and accepts the notion of multiple partners, there's no harm done. But there are different levels of acceptance. Seems like a recipe for trouble. Of course, regular old monogamy doesn't have a great track record either......

 

[JemothSkarii]

I'd say no, since cheating is usually considered a betrayal. I'm a bit biased though. I've had 'polyamory' used as an excuse to be cheated on. Multiple times. The whole 'I can't love just one person' spiel. Why on earth somebody would want more than one partner is beyond my mental capacity. Having one partner is challenging enough, I can't understand the want to be with more than one. Probably never will, seem to lose interest in women once I'm in a relationship/find out they're taken.

So yeah, I'd say cheating is less acceptable.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Monogamy is monogamy. One partner. Anything else is cheating. You can call it by any name you want.
.

Wait are you saying there is nothing other than Monogamy? Because if so, you are objectively wrong.

The word cheat implies dishonesty. If a couple is polygamous, openly, there is absolutely no dishonesty. Therefore not cheating.

I really hope i misunderstood, because that's absurd.

 

[Something Amyss]

I have this weird irrational reflex at the idea of the dynamics of a poly relationship. It immediately tries to nudge me into thinking of the type of people involved in it as being either Category A: A bunch of sex maniacs who sleep in a big pile like some really sweaty hamsters. Or category B: FLDS types with an insane dogmatic husband and 20 wives locked in a struggle, scheming against one another to win the favour of her husband (essentially the most petty version of "Game of Thrones" ever)

I don't think it's weird or necessarily irrational. You live in a culture that feels this way, and as such, you have developed along those cultural norms. It's a good thing that you identify that those reactions may be out of place, but "everybody's doing it" actually kind of is a real-world defense of such things.

Is it a good response? No. Is it necessarily irrational in a society that wires you to think that way?

No.

I'd say no, since cheating is usually considered a betrayal. I'm a bit biased though. I've had 'polyamory' used as an excuse to be cheated on. Multiple times. The whole 'I can't love just one person' spiel. Why on earth somebody would want more than one partner is beyond my mental capacity. Having one partner is challenging enough, I can't understand the want to be with more than one. Probably never will, seem to lose interest in women once I'm in a relationship/find out they're taken.

So yeah, I'd say cheating is less acceptable.

If polyamoury was used an excuse, it certainly wasn't the issue, then. People should partner up in relationships with a mutual understanding of what's going on, regardless of the number of parties involved.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That doesn't really fit the definition of "cheating" though does it.

As neither party was aware of what was happening, as the mother's diaries detail her suspicion and jealousy of the secretary, and as the father seemed to be battling resentment the distance of strain of his marriage ("No I don't miss her" was his response when asked if he missed his departed wife), I'd say it absolutely does. It certainly wasn't representative of a "mutual decision". The only mutually made decision was to stay together. Why? Because splitting up "wasn't done". Why? Because our society still views inviolate monogamy as the "proper" state of a relationship, and castigates anyone stepping outside of it. To say nothing of how divorce would've been viewed when they were younger. It's not remotely close to "polyamory". They were both miserable.

It's certainly not the only example I'm aware of, just the most recent and one that actually exists on film (as opposed to simply being an anecdote of mine). I've actually known quite a few people who got cheated on, or who cheated. The split between "That was pretty scummy" and "That was entirely understandable" is about 50/50. According to many members of this forum over the years, the split should always be 100/0.

Last time I remember it coming up was some viral story about a snoopy patron at a ball game reading a woman's texts, divining that she might be cheating on her boyfriend, and alerting the guy in question. Thread was very similar then, too. Burn the cheater, praise the dude. Context and substantiation be damned...an accusation and self-promoting story by a nosy individual is all the proof I need! It would've been easy to ascribe it to the ongoing "gender issues" frenzy these forums find themselves eternally embroiled in...the alleged culprit was, after all, packing two X chromosomes. I think that would be missing the mark though.

Because these forums also have a wild and hairy hard-on when it comes to the subject of cheating. After I'd watched that documentary I'd considered making a long thread about it. Discussing how many incidents of cheating I'd encountered (including being cheated on twice personally) and how many felt completely justifiable (50% of my personal experiences). Of the many reasons why it's often not as simple as "LOL I THINK I'LL FUCK SOMEONE ELSE NOW BECUZ I M MEEN". Why we shouldn't be so quick to judge, condemn, etc, etc. I opted not to, though. The general tenor of the discussions around here over the last year didn't lead me to believe I'd get much in the way of quality input. The overwhelming likelihood seemed to be a lot of enthused commentary by angry teenagers. Which is not to denigrate teenagers or their outlook on life, but I'd as interested in their input on the subject as they would be in the input of grade schoolers.

As someone who has been in many relationships...some long, some short, some healthy, some NOT SO MUCH...I can totally understand how situations come to pass where people cheat. I think it's completely possible to be in love with more than one person at the same time, through absolutely no fault of anyone involved. I think a lot of people behave in ways that they might later regret, I think people occasionally act out selfishness or simple lack of consideration, and sometimes I think it's part of the natural death throes of a failing relationship. Occasionally, it's been something that's SAVED a relationship by giving it a jolt it needed. Is it sometimes shitty? ABSOLUTELY. But unless you know the details from both parties, I find it's best to refrain from judgment.

TLDR - Cheating is complicated. Peeps need to stop being so judgmental. But they won't. Moral condemnations of strangers are fun, and addictive.

 

[Pseudonym]

Nah, no way. It raises a few eyebrows but that's it.

Keep in mind I mainly talk to people who have a hardcore liberal approach to interpersonal relationships though. I have no idea what the general sentiment among the new wave of "liberals" in my generation thinks.

Wait what? Really? What a silly question. Is breaking the rules of your relationship more socially acceptable than following rules that were mutually consented to? I don't get it, how could people view polyamory as cheating? You can't decide what constitutes cheating for other people, that's fucked.

Maybe I'm just hanging out with the right people but I've never felt judged or anything, and people know about what my fiancé and I get up to.

I'm pretty much in the same boat with regards to my friends. Most people I know (those of my age, at least) wouldn't really give a fuck about polyamoury, I think. I know I wouldn't. Whereas cheating is not done. I don't know how representative my circle of friends is for the rest of the world. I suppose it depends your social circle. If your social circle is a bunch of religious conservatives who all think that marriage is the only sexual relationship you are allowed to have, then I imagine they wouldn't look too kindly on polyamoury. I also think it differs depending on where precisely you live.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Um, no, not really. Polyamourous relationships, whatever your personal opinion is, are volunteer stuff. You and your partners agree to it, setting terms/conditions and eventually exit points. Its all willing. Some people may frown at the idea, but no one says "Oh yeah, my boyfriend forced me into a polyamourous relationship with his coworkers and ex-girlfriend." Its all volunteer. It has to be.

Cheating, by definition, requires one person to not be okay with it. That's why its called cheating and not polyamory.

Think of it this way: its the equivalent of sharing items among friends, or stealing shit from them. Either way you're getting new stuff, but one is seen as sharing. The other is stealing.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Um, no, not really. Polyamourous relationships, whatever your personal opinion is, are volunteer stuff. You and your partners agree to it, setting terms/conditions and eventually exit points. Its all willing. Some people may frown at the idea, but no one says "Oh yeah, my boyfriend forced me into a polyamourous relationship with his coworkers and ex-girlfriend." Its all volunteer. It has to be.

Cheating, by definition, requires one person to not be okay with it. That's why its called cheating and not polyamory.

Think of it this way: its the equivalent of sharing items among friends, or stealing shit from them. Either way you're getting new stuff, but one is seen as sharing. The other is stealing.

Sure, but the OP specified "socially acceptable" rather than "morally acceptable", and that isn't always the same thing.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Um, no, not really. Polyamourous relationships, whatever your personal opinion is, are volunteer stuff. You and your partners agree to it, setting terms/conditions and eventually exit points. Its all willing. Some people may frown at the idea, but no one says "Oh yeah, my boyfriend forced me into a polyamourous relationship with his coworkers and ex-girlfriend." Its all volunteer. It has to be.

Cheating, by definition, requires one person to not be okay with it. That's why its called cheating and not polyamory.

Think of it this way: its the equivalent of sharing items among friends, or stealing shit from them. Either way you're getting new stuff, but one is seen as sharing. The other is stealing.

Sure, but the OP specified "socially acceptable" rather than "morally acceptable", and that isn't always the same thing.

Yeah, but morality is a social concept. They're not exactly interchangeable, but they're very closely related. Its rare for a society to judge something as immoral while maintaining it's social acceptable. Likewise if something is considered moral, its rare for it not to be socially acceptable to do.

If you take cheating for example. Most people would say its immoral to do. You can kinda' extrapolate that those same people would say its not socially acceptable to do. Are the numbers gonna' be exactly the same? No, but they're gonna be pretty damn close.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, but morality is a social concept.

Well, yes, but then this forum is a small subset of society as a whole. The morals as discussed by people here might not reflect wider society that closely.

Its rare for a society to judge something as immoral while maintaining it's social acceptable. Likewise if something is considered moral, its rare for it not to be socially acceptable to do.

Oh, I'd disagree there. Or at least, there's lots of things that are nominally considered immoral, but that people will turna blind eye to.