Long-Haul Gaming
- Thread starter Mark J Kline
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Mark J Kline said:
Fascinating article. This "enchanted state" you describe almost sounds like alcohol or drug dependency to me. Not on a biological level, but the addiction of mind-altering substances to give you a happy, 'surreal' feeling. Something that transcends the mundane and keeps the user in a state of, as you say, enchantment. Whether that be getting tipsy or getting high.
I'm going to be brave and admit to my longest session being around 18-20 hours. I'm not entirely sure of the exact time, it's just what Steam told me after i'd finally closed the Witcher. Part of the reason i find it so easy to spend so much time absorbed and 'enchanted' is because i do not have many obligations at the moment (besides study), but also because my excessive gaming has caused the normal, ordinary world to become too mundane. I have become very bored with reality. All the while i'm disconnected from my games, i'm fantasising about some otherworldly existence, such as the world of the Witcher for instance. I'm daydreaming about drowners and dragons instead of thinking about the news or being interested in anything happening in the real world. I'm not so far gone that i can't distinguish what IS the real world, of course, but it's got to the stage where the real world is just too boring and without excitement. The fantasy element has gone from novel to necessary for me; it's almost as though i depend on escapism. When i am plugged into my games, i feel "at peace" almost at once. It's as though i no longer need to wait for half an hour to get that "enchanted" feeling when you enter a zen like state after an extended period of uninterrupted play, it simply comes to me naturally. As soon as i click start on the menu. Almost like a feeling of "Ahh, that's better. This is where i belong." I wonder whether this has any impact on any further life goals. For instance, i have absolutely no interest in raising a family or having kids. I cannot even see why people would want to. Time was, i'd be mopey about not having a girlfriend like so many other normal people, but even that has faded significantly. Instead, i tell myself "Why would i want to give myself real world obligations when i have so many obligations in the fantasy world? Those undead aren't going to slay themselves...". I suppose that's it; replacing real world obligations with fantasy ones. I have to wonder whether that is an unhealthy thing to do. I would say no, but only for the optional obligations, like raising a family. Obviously if it interferes with work, studies, or maintaining my health then something is wrong. Thinking about addiction as a rational, if not entirely dangerous, concept is somewhat frightening. Like the chap in the letter, it's not that i can't stop, i just don't want to.
Just for the record as an interesting side note, the longest i have gone without sleep for is 72 hours. It was for a personal experiment to see if i would be able to manage it and what the effects of it would be. I don't recommend it, but perhaps my ability to go without any form of sleep or rest for such a long time means i have the fortitude to play or do sedentary activities for heavily extended periods of time. I'm 20 years old, if that counts for anything.D4rkLigh7 said:
I also find this to be very interesting. I experience it too, on a fairly intense level. When a game is over, i can replay what i have done over and over in my head. Sometimes the events can unfold of their own accord and my brain invents "alternate continuations", but that is mostly something that occurs when i am in a very suggestible state, such as in bed right before sleep. Other times my "gaming neurons" will force me to remember where that last enemy or health pickup is or was, even if it is no longer important simply because my mind is playing a replay reel in my head for whatever reason. Even more curiously, sometimes i can be sat in front of my console or PC and tell myself i am going to play something, then be doing something else (say daydream, read something, browse the internet etc) and my mind will "play the game for me". That is to say, it will feel like i have played the game in question, but i haven't. It can leave a bit of a strange feeling. It's not something that occurs very often and it's exacerbated when i'm in suggestive states, like the above.NytFantom said:
What's *really* interesting is that people see almost nothing wrong with sports fans obsessing about a sport they don't actually play, spending dozens of hours a week watching every game their team is playing, or related to their team, or sports-related programming on ESPN... yet the same behaviour is considered aberrant for a gamer actually participating in the events.
Like Dr. Kline said, as long as you're willing to reflect on what you do, and change your behaviour if it negatively affects your life, there may be nothing wrong with it.
Like Dr. Kline said, as long as you're willing to reflect on what you do, and change your behaviour if it negatively affects your life, there may be nothing wrong with it.
This question could have easily been written by an old friend of mine before he decided to cut off all ties to society and play WoW two to three days straight constantly and then pass out rinse and repeat. Guy would only eat once a day because he needed to keep playing. The most I ever played a game was back in my FF11 days I played it for about four months straight when I was like 13 or 14. Game session would go about 10 hours on and off through the day. It was one of the worst times of my life. I felt mentally and physically horrible from it all. Luckly that was long ago but dear lord thirty to fifty hours? I couldn't do that ever, I need my sleep and such.
Everything in moderation ladies and gentlemen.
Everything in moderation ladies and gentlemen.
I was once seriously addicted to a mud called 3 kingdoms. I played on average 14 1/2 hours a day for a year straight with my longest stretch of non-stop (no sleep) playing being just under a week. Games can indeed take over your life and if you get too involved you stop doing anything else besides playing them. A good game, a really good game, never stops being entertaining or having constant goals and rewards. The game that got me so addicted for instance had a variety of skills that all directly improved my character in an easily observable manner, and that never took more then an hour or so to increase. This caused me to always have something in the near future to aim for, along with large long term goals as well, and eventually I did nothing else but play the game because of that (and of course the multi-player/competition aspects helped a ton).
I stopped cold turkey at the end of that last year after reaching a large goal and realizing how much time I had wasted and that I was throwing my life away. I strongly suggest that if you are playing any online game more then you are doing anything else, that you should stop all together for awhile and then eventually try playing a moderate amount of time instead.
If for some reason you have absolutely nothing else to do, if you are restricted to a bed, wheelchair etc, then perhaps playing games that much time makes sense. Otherwise I suggest trying to enjoy other aspects of life while you can and not get so involved in a video game that you end up regretting it later when you can no longer do so.
I stopped cold turkey at the end of that last year after reaching a large goal and realizing how much time I had wasted and that I was throwing my life away. I strongly suggest that if you are playing any online game more then you are doing anything else, that you should stop all together for awhile and then eventually try playing a moderate amount of time instead.
If for some reason you have absolutely nothing else to do, if you are restricted to a bed, wheelchair etc, then perhaps playing games that much time makes sense. Otherwise I suggest trying to enjoy other aspects of life while you can and not get so involved in a video game that you end up regretting it later when you can no longer do so.
Yeah, it's from the 'Make Love, Not Warcraft' Episode. Stan is the blue dude, Cartman's the dwarf, Kyle's the mage lady and Kenny is the orange dude.weirdguy said:
30 hours straight? And here I was, thinking I had a serious problem with addiction. I'm fuckin' lightweight >.>
30-50 hours? With only quick breaks for snacks before ten hour crashes? I'm wondering if the play time is a bit exaggerated or not, but it does sound like a bit much for the sake of entertainment. As a fellow internet addict, I'd say it's time to talk to people about it; friends, family, doctor, whatever.
At the very least, take more time to walk around the room and rest the eyes from staring at the screen for so long. That time can still be put to use with ideas that can be put back into the game after a few minutes of thought while you get something to eat.
At the very least, take more time to walk around the room and rest the eyes from staring at the screen for so long. That time can still be put to use with ideas that can be put back into the game after a few minutes of thought while you get something to eat.
Playing videogames for 50 hrs straight is putting yourself at high risk for a heart attack. You need sleep a bit more often.
I think the greater hazard in video games is the sense of accomplishment we feel when completing tasks. The task is usually fairly standard, with plenty of add-ons and walkthroughs and such to help us get through even the "really hard" parts... and the rewards? A sword that can split time in half, or maybe Leggings that give your enemies colon cancer. The reward is often extremely disproportionate to the task, even though both are fictional.Mark J Kline said:
Contrast that with the real world. You can work your ass off, all day long, and be amazing at your job... and have nobody notice. You can complete your assigned tasks in record time, help a co-worker complete his/hers, and for your trouble you take a pay cut because they just don't have the money. There is no guarantee you'll be paid what you're worth.
And if there is a prize? It only goes to the first guy to get there. It's not like the game, where each person that completes the task gets the same prize. It doesn't diminish or disappear over time, and the NPCs laud them each in the same way.
It's easy for that sense of reward and accomplishment to overtake its real-world counterpart. Rewards are more immediate and, we feel, more proportionate to the effort we put in. There is justice and balance, and there's a part of us that truly doesn't care that it's not real.
There's a trap there, and a real danger in allowing that feeling to get too strong a hold on us. Even your smallest achievement in the real world is far more valuable than your largest in the game world, often because they both aid and connect you to other people. And when things go bad? Those people may well be the ones that help you out.
I'm going to argue that 30-50 hours of game play without fatigue is actually a sign that the experience isn't emotionally fulfilling. This is why he's gone to such length of play... he's playing longer to get the same kind of buzz he got when he first started.
I'd recommend playing some other kind of game, like Guild Wars or maybe Eve. I'm not a doctor, but if you're playing 50 hours a day without real satisfaction, it's time to switch.
Of course, he's said he likes playing the game, but my point is that he doesn't like it enough, or that he's grown a little too comfortable with it. And a little variety in your gaming habit can only be good!
I'd recommend playing some other kind of game, like Guild Wars or maybe Eve. I'm not a doctor, but if you're playing 50 hours a day without real satisfaction, it's time to switch.
Of course, he's said he likes playing the game, but my point is that he doesn't like it enough, or that he's grown a little too comfortable with it. And a little variety in your gaming habit can only be good!
I agree with this, but with one major amendment; it's not a hazard that we feel greater accomplishment from virtual tasks. It's a natural reaction to being praised for doing something and being duly rewarded. It's why we play games in the first place, and you could even argue, partly why sports is popular. The feeling of "oh yeah man we just beat the other team!" is the same feeling you get when you go "oh yeah man we just beat that huge-ass boss!".Dastardly said:
Given the context of what is being asked of you, i would argue that no, it isn't disproportionate at all. Take a quest from world of warcraft that has you go kill ten zombies and the reward is a sword or some kind of weapon. Your argument is that being rewarded with a sword, item or money would be considered disproportionate to the simple task of click on ten mobs until they are dead, but if you imagine it in terms of the game world, it's actually a pretty horrifying thing to do - having to slay the living dead. If you think about the world through the eyes of your avatar, i'd say that it was actually disproportionate in the other direction. A few measly silver for putting my life on the line? With risk of being dinner for the undead? That's almost as bad as working for hours on end 9-5 and getting a measly tax-deducted paycheck at the end of the month!
This is where i feel the crux of your argument should be. rewards are more immediate. When you do that quest to slay those ten undead, you don't have to wait for the end of the month to get your reward. It's just a thirty second jog down to the guy who gave you the quest and you collect your reward. Multiplying that by the dozen, it's easy to see why the feeling of reward and accomplishment is much more pronounced in video games. Even if you don't take the MMO template, simply killing another player in an online shooter is still a feeling of "accomplishment and reward" for the skill of the player.
Here is where i take serious issue with your argument. While getting a stable job, a place to live, and making sure you have food on your plate are very serious real life achievements indeed, having a girlfriend, having kids, climbing mountains, or learning to play an instrument is not. They are not necessary to your survival and it is up to the individual how much importance they put on doing those other secondary activities. You may think it would be a terrific achievement to learn to play the violin, but many others would not. In fact, many others would not even care, period. If i find slaying ten zombies to be more rewarding than learning to play the violin, then that is my choice and how i choose to weight what is important to me. After all, we all live on borrowed time. Once Death comes for what he is owed, the world will forget you. Unless you revolutionise the world, all those real life achievements will be just as meaningless as the virtual ones. You might say things done in the virtual are not important because they are not real, but i would contest that things done in the real are just as unimportant. No-one is going to care that you climbed a mountain or learned to play the violin. We are all dead men walking.
I disagree with the popular conception that games or any other form of entertainment is addicting. What happens is when people have problems they attempt to evade it instead of solving it so they choose a medium through which to do so. Be it games, drugs or books it's irrelevant.
30 to 50 hour gaming sessions sounds seriously unhealthy. Ignoring any physical issues, metally and emotionally it doesn't seem right. What about a job, relationships, activity and a life away from gaming. I would advise the guy to take a serious look at himself and his life.
You rebel, you!The SettingSun said:
I think it depends; if someone loves a sport, goes to games, watches it on the tube and plays it on the weekend, they would seem to have an active, full life. If someone sits on the couch and watches a sport they love all day, every day, they would look just as "shut in" as an obsessed gamer.RvLeshrac said:
The problem is that there aren't many excuses to "get out" as a gamer. As a sports fan, you can go to see the game, watch it at a friend's and have a BBQ, play the game, coach others and many, many more. But in gaming, multiplayer can still be done with friends, but they look just as bad as you, playing for hours on end, or you can play online where no one can see your friends and look even more lonely. Aside from expos and the such, video games appear very confining.
There's also the issue of one sport being a real world experience with a physical pay-off that carries over into every day life. For most people, video games are a separate reality that has few, if any real world benefits. You can learn a lesson or a new skill, discover and solve realistic problems, engage in moral choice and epic, life changing journey, but when the PC turns off, not much of it carries across in an easily demonstrable way.
Humans are also hunters and gathers by nature. I'd guess the sport looks more "natural" and shows signs of a good, strong interest in competition and battle.
Haven't they (researchers) demonstrated that video games are addictive? I've seen reports and numerous studies that suggest people can and do become addicted to the act of playing a game, as the released chemicals (mainly endorphins) are addictive - that is fact. Not unlike people being addicted to the thrill of gambling or the excitement of sex. Literal chemical addiction (like alcohol) is a whole other matter dealing with the body's growing reliance on certain chemicals and the affects.AndyFromMonday said: