Looking at Depression Quest and Analyzing Male Privilege

[Kris Ligman]

Looking at Depression Quest and Analyzing Male Privilege


Hello, Escapist readers! As part of a new partnership with curation website Critical Distance [http://critical-distance.com], we'll be bringing you a weekly digest of the coolest games criticism, analysis and commentary from around the web. Let's hit it!

First up, Errant Signal's Chris Franklin has posted his latest video critique, this one [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js1OsJZq2Vg] -- two recent semi-autobiographical games about living with depression, and analyses how each approaches its subject and informs the other.

On Polygon, Jonathan McIntosh lays out in plain language much the same criticism of male privilege in games as other articles have done [http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/23/5640678/playing-with-privilege-the-invisible-benefits-of-gaming-while-male], and adds that it's not about individuals' privilege, but how men benefit as a group in society, including games:

I want to emphasize that this list is not meant to suggest that everything is always a cakewalk for male gamers. Male critics, developers, and gamers are also at times bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender. This is a critical distinction. The pattern of unearned advantage also does not mean that all men are powerful as individuals or that all women are powerless as individuals. It simply means that men in gamer culture can, on average, count on these advantages, whereas women can not.
The invisibility of a lot of these systems and assumptions is part of why they're so effective. On her personal blog, Kate Reynolds [http://k8monstrscloset.com/2014/04/25/beyond-two-souls-a-lesson-on-internalized-patriarchy/] and discovered that the game subconsciously eases its players into participating in certain toxic attitudes, even if they don't want to:

I didn't question once while I was playing why I/Jodie never encountered a competent woman while I/Jodie was growing up in a secret government facility. I didn't question why Cole (the black assistant scientist) seemed so inferior to the white scientist Nathan Dawkins. I never questioned why the entity attached to me/Jody was always referred to by a male name (what if it had been Adenia instead of Aiden?). None of those things were important to I/Jodie, only our survival was.
Lastly, Canabalt developer Adam Saltsman [http://pastebin.com/m0xLSKzg], as two works of little-understood, self-contained masterpiece. This is a must-read for anyone interested in in-depth analysis.

That's all for this week! If you're interested in more great writing, videos and podcasts from this week in games, be sure to swing over to Critical Distance [http://critical-distance.com] to have your fill!

[http://critical-distance.com]

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[Falterfire]

So I keep going back and forth on whether I want to be the one to kick off the (inevitable) shitstorm here, but I have to say that the Quantic Dream article is incredibly weirdly worded. That whole conclusion is just written in a way that makes the author sound absolutely nutty if you don't already subscribe to the idea that there's a malicious patriarchy controlling everything. Seriously, as much as I love riding the "hate David Cage" Bandwagon, I found it very difficult to take that article/author seriously.

 

[josemlopes]

I guess it had to spread to the rest of the website, right?

And that Polygon article is just poor, his last two points are laughable

"If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing."

"Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer."

Because this isnt a thing apparently

EDIT: And wasnt the sitstorm around Depression Quest way back related to the fact that it was a text based flash game already available on browsers being Greenlighted and tacking a spot of another game instead of the fact that she was a female game designer?

 

[oplinger]

I guess it had to spread to the rest of the website, right?

And that Polygon article is just poor, his last two points are laughable

"If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing."

"Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer."

Because this isnt a thing apparently

White Knight or not, He maintains he has received no online vitriol for his article. Where woman have countless times just for being women.

Which is kind of the problem he's addressing.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

The bit from Polygon was actually better than I thought it would be because it actually made the concept of "privilege" seem plausible and not just a ludicrous buzzword.

As for the Beyond: Two Souls thing, well, that was less interesting. The major issue with the article, aside from the repeated use of "patriarchy", was the lack of actual examples. She says the black scientist seems inferior. Explain? Are there repeated scenes where he is wrong about things? Context is also important. Is he a lower-ranking scientist?
It's possible that she's right, but I won't take that kind of thing on faith.

Overall, I'm always intrigued by the idea of new content, though personally I would have picked a different title for the first article.

On a side note, I really wish Taco was still with us to make a post about fedoras and misogyny.
[sub/]i still have no idea what in the world could have gotten him banned[/sub]

On a side side note, I really hope portions of this thread show up on Escapist Forums_TXT. LOOK MOM, I'M ON TWITTER!

 

[Coreless]

"I want to emphasize that this list is not meant to suggest that everything is always a cakewalk for male gamers. Male critics, developers, and gamers are also at times bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender."

Right, I guess all those times I have been told by females in game that they will cut off my dick and feed it to me, or better yet emasculate me and make me their new whore has absolutely nothing to do with me being a "man". Obviously I am privileged with being threatened and no one giving a shit because I'm just another gamer "bro" what else is new? God forbid some random internet idiot makes a rude comment to a female and gather the pitch folks and call the military because we have just declared war. ./sigh

 

[ZeoAssassin]

The bit from Polygon was actually better than I thought it would be because it actually made the concept of "privilege" seem plausible and not just a ludicrous buzzword.

As for the Beyond: Two Souls thing, well, that was less interesting. The major issue with the article, aside from the repeated use of "patriarchy", was the lack of actual examples. She says the black scientist seems inferior. Explain? Are there repeated scenes where he is wrong about things? Context is also important. Is he a lower-ranking scientist?
It's possible that she's right, but I won't take that kind of thing on faith.

Overall, I'm always intrigued by the idea of new content, though personally I would have picked a different title for the first article.

On a side note, I really wish Taco was still with us to make a post about fedoras and misogyny.
[sub/]i still have no idea what in the world could have gotten him banned[/sub]

yeah i would have liked something a little meatier and in depth about Beyond. Having "played" [read: watched a through LP which for a David Cage game is effectively the same] I knew about everything she was referring to: Such as...

Spoiler

The black scientist, Cole. He's effectively just William Defoe's assistant who only really does busy work and hes role in the plot about 90% of the time revolves around being manipulated or used in some way (there's a point where he's literally possessed by Jodie's' spirit buddy Iaden in order for her to sneak out of the lab at night. If Defoe's character is Jodie's stern father-figure than Cole is undoubtedly her submissive mother-figure. At least from what i see in the character relationships, amusingly still riding back to the issues of sexism.

EDIT: Also whenever he DOES do something important its usually in a side-kick-esque capacity to another 'more important' (love-interest/father figure) character.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

The bit from Polygon was actually better than I thought it would be because it actually made the concept of "privilege" seem plausible and not just a ludicrous buzzword.

As for the Beyond: Two Souls thing, well, that was less interesting. The major issue with the article, aside from the repeated use of "patriarchy", was the lack of actual examples. She says the black scientist seems inferior. Explain? Are there repeated scenes where he is wrong about things? Context is also important. Is he a lower-ranking scientist?
It's possible that she's right, but I won't take that kind of thing on faith.

Overall, I'm always intrigued by the idea of new content, though personally I would have picked a different title for the first article.

On a side note, I really wish Taco was still with us to make a post about fedoras and misogyny.
[sub/]i still have no idea what in the world could have gotten him banned[/sub]

yeah i would have liked something a little meatier and in depth about Beyond. Having "played" [read: watched a through LP which for a David Cage game is effectively the same] I knew about everything she was referring to: Such as...

Spoiler

The black scientist, Cole. He's effectively just William Defoe's assistant who only really does busy work and hes role in the plot about 90% of the time revolves around being manipulated or used in some way (there's a point where he's literally possessed by Jodie's' spirit buddy Iaden in order for her to sneak out of the lab at night. If Defoe's character is Jodie's stern father-figure than Cole is undoubtedly her submissive mother-figure. At least from what i see in the character relationships, amusingly still riding back to the issues of sexism.

EDIT: Also whenever he DOES do something important its usually in a side-kick-esque capacity to another 'more important' (love-interest/father figure) character.

Is he actually Dafoe's lab assistant or is he a scientist of the same rank?

 

[ZeoAssassin]

Defoe ranks higher but at least during the start of story they were suppose to be partners I THINK.

He wasn't just some intern or something if that's what your asking

 

[WindKnight]

EDIT: And wasnt the sitstorm around Depression Quest way back related to the fact that it was a text based flash game already available on browsers being Greenlighted and tacking a spot of another game instead of the fact that she was a female game designer?

Considering one of the specific attacks was 'women can't understand depression because they can just lie there with their hole open and let any man take their problems away', yes, it very much was about her gender.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

EDIT: And wasnt the sitstorm around Depression Quest way back related to the fact that it was a text based flash game already available on browsers being Greenlighted and tacking a spot of another game instead of the fact that she was a female game designer?

Considering one of the specific attacks was 'women can't understand depression because they can just lie there with their hole open and let any man take their problems away', yes, it very much was about her gender.

You can't take a single specific attack and use it to paint the entirety of the criticism against something. The gender stuff was a sidenote.

I would also point out that both sides do this all the time. The "You can't understand because you are part of X group" is one of the most common things to throw around.

 

[SKBPinkie]

The problem with this whole discussion is that it is never actually a discussion. It's a full-fledged debate / argument. Neither side wants to actually solve the problem; they're just desperately trying to convert the other side.

 

[Karadalis]

White Knight or not, He maintains he has received no online vitriol for his article. Where woman have countless times just for being women.

Which is kind of the problem he's addressing.

Because today it is so easy to insult females on the internet with insulting their gender.

With males its usually their sexuality or social status as being weak.

Serious the trolls will allways go for what gets them the biggest reaction and pulling the sexist trap card seems to be the new go to if you want to insult a female on the net.

Thats it thought.. its trolls trolling and taking the easy way out. Gaming has such a gigantic audience and because of a vocal minority we are being put all in the same bloody category as manchildren that see their male only club in danger when reality couldnt be more different.

EDIT: And wasnt the sitstorm around Depression Quest way back related to the fact that it was a text based flash game already available on browsers being Greenlighted and tacking a spot of another game instead of the fact that she was a female game designer?

Considering one of the specific attacks was 'women can't understand depression because they can just lie there with their hole open and let any man take their problems away', yes, it very much was about her gender.

yeaaaaah no... there is no partiarchical agenda on the internet or gaming. This was about insulting someone for shits and giggles.. something people on the internet have been doing since its inception.

This has less to do with gaming culture and more with insult culture and the "security" of anonymity.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Oh man, you just hit like three controversial topics in a single article. And we've already hit the white knight accusations by the second post!

I'm not much for content curation I already pretty much already knew about most of these already, but at least we may get some funny shitstorms out of stuff like this.

 

[Vegosiux]

Oh you know what, sod it. I'm going to keep my head low until the next hot topic rolls in and stuff (I wonder what it will be). This is getting ridiculous, messiah complex running berserk.

I'll just say I agree with Scrumpmonkey; if you are out to fix the world's ills like the savior you consider yourself to be, you likely want to do it in a way that doesn't involve telling people they're shit every ten seconds. Such "internet vigilantism" only serves one's own ego, it's appalling.

Note that by "you" I mean the general public, I'm not addressing anyone in particular.

 

[Shadefyre]

Funny how all this social justice, tumblr preaching nonsense only comes from people already living in the most "privileged" countries in the world. Almost like it's a result of not having any bigger problems to deal with.

 

[uchytjes]

Funny how all this social justice, tumblr preaching nonsense only comes from people already living in the most "privileged" countries in the world. Almost like it's a result of not having any bigger problems to deal with.

Its what happens when you have nothing better to do. No matter what, people will find some way to complain about something in their lives.