Looking for Feedback on a Plot

[saluraropicrusa]

Hello Escapists.

For the past few months, I've been working on and off on the world building, designing, and plotting for a sci-fi comic. I'm in the very early stages right now (I haven't even finalized the design of the antagonist aliens). What I'm looking for right now is a bit of feedback on the plot so far. The idea I have right now is the best I was able to think up to keep the story going and centered on a specific group of characters.

Here's a synopsis of the plot as it stands:
After some violent confrontations over territory, with attacks on colonies from both sides, humans have gotten into a war with insect-like aliens known as the Winnifred Cadwallader, [http://saluraropicrusa.deviantart.com/art/Sipuncula-303808711] sent to the outer edges of the combat zones on various small, usually scout missions. Here's the part that I'm not sure about: the ship is given orders to find and destroy or capture a smuggling ship that has enemy war criminals (supposedly) on it, and end up chasing this vessel for most of the story (it would end when they finally corner it). There's more to it than that but that's the basic idea.

I'm not sure that the plot is enough to carry on for very long though. What I'm looking for is feedback and maybe a bit of brainstorming to help flesh out my ideas or decide on something new if they need to be scrapped. I can provide details as necessary--I know what I've written here leaves out a lot but I didn't want to ramble on too long.

So... yeah. Any feedback or constructive input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Averant]

Enemy war criminals? Wouldn't the enemy be the Sipuncula? Can they communicate with the humans? Would they WANT to communicate with the humans, and vice versa? Why would any human vessel be smuggling aliens?

On the other hand, if that's just a farce, then... hell, I don't know. I'd need a hell of a lot more information and context to come up with any decent brainstorming.

So, basics, please: Can we communicate with them, and do we want to?

 

[saluraropicrusa]

Enemy war criminals? Wouldn't the enemy be the Sipuncula? Can they communicate with the humans? Would they WANT to communicate with the humans, and vice versa? Why would any human vessel be smuggling aliens?

On the other hand, if that's just a farce, then... hell, I don't know. I'd need a hell of a lot more information and context to come up with any decent brainstorming.

So, basics, please: Can we communicate with them, and do we want to?

Actually it's not a human vessel smuggling them. Shoulda made that clearer. The Sipuncula soldiers that Winnie's ship is after are smuggled on the vessel of an alien not involved with the war itself (but obviously willing to give them a lift for a fee).

There is a way to communicate with them, though they aren't really able to speak, as such. That's something I'm going to have to figure out. Eventually in the story a treaty is reached--as this is all a war over petty territorial gripes, with concessions everything is able to be worked out. The war ends not long after Winnie's ship sets off after the smuggling vessel but she's not informed due to being too far from any military outposts and therefore unable to communicate with her superiors (or, that's my plan so far).

If you have any other questions, obviously, feel free to ask. Although I don't have absolutely all the details worked out.

 

[Starnerf]

It sounds like the story would follow something along the lines of Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galactica, where the main stories of the chapters/episodes would be about life on the ship and interactions of the crew, but there's always a central, driving objective for the overall story (finding Earth in the case of BG, capturing the enemy ship in yours). So you'll probably have to flesh out stories among the crew if you want to give the story depth and purpose beyond just a pursuit of the overall goal.

Being cut off from their superiors does give you the opportunity to demonstrate each character's strengths when they don't have a lifeline and lets you show the reader why each character is suited (or unsuited) to their role.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're planning, but that's what it sounds like to me. I really like episodic stories with a large, overarching plot that ties the series together, so I think such a story could really work out well.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

It sounds like the story would follow something along the lines of Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galactica, where the main stories of the chapters/episodes would be about life on the ship and interactions of the crew, but there's always a central, driving objective for the overall story (finding Earth in the case of BG, capturing the enemy ship in yours). So you'll probably have to flesh out stories among the crew if you want to give the story depth and purpose beyond just a pursuit of the overall goal.

Being cut off from their superiors does give you the opportunity to demonstrate each character's strengths when they don't have a lifeline and lets you show the reader why each character is suited (or unsuited) to their role.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're planning, but that's what it sounds like to me. I really like episodic stories with a large, overarching plot that ties the series together, so I think such a story could really work out well.

Yeah, that could definitely be what I go for with this. It would probably be the best course of action if I stick with this idea for the plot. I've been fleshing out the characters first and foremost anyway.

Thanks for your input! I'll keep it in mind and see if I can come up with ideas to support it (I have a few scenarios to scatter over the course of the plot anyway, and that's a matter of figuring out the timing as they're all pretty major events).

 

[Supertegwyn]

It seems alright, but the name? Winnifred Cadwallader?

Bleurgh.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Not enough information to really say.

I would ask that if you are having aliens in your story, make them actually alien, though.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

Not enough information to really say.

I would ask that if you are having aliens in your story, make them actually alien, though.

That's the plan. The antagonist aliens are meant to look like insects. Other aliens in the story I'll be basing more or less on the biology of Earth animals, for lack of better reference, as well as adding elements to make them appear alien.

 

[CODE-D]

Sounds as boring as AVATAR, just be sure to write that everythings shiny blue and buy enough ad space to say its a new masterpiece, if not the most groundbreaking film ever and it should make billions.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Not enough information to really say.

I would ask that if you are having aliens in your story, make them actually alien, though.

That's the plan. The antagonist aliens are meant to look like insects. Other aliens in the story I'll be basing more or less on the biology of Earth animals, for lack of better reference, as well as adding elements to make them appear alien.

Looking like insects isn't very alien though.

What you could do, for example, is have them use different sense to humans. Really, this should be done more often, but in my entire life, I've only come across one (1) set of aliens that perceived colours differently from humans as a plot point.

If they don't distinguish between colours that humans can, that has big implications for camouflage. Hunters IRL wear bright orange because their prey doesn't see it as a bright colour, but fellow humans do, for example. You could have uniforms that seemed brightly coloured (though still with a camoflage pattern) so your troops could all see each other easily without giving themselves away to the enemy.

If the aliens don't use sight at all, everyone would drop camouflage and move back to 18-19th century style stuff.

Likewise, if alien hands or other manipulative organs work different, people would make equipment that human can use, but would be difficult or impossible for humans, spaceships would be hard for aliens to get around in, and so on.

And that's on top of the usual stuff like having a different worldview.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

It sounds like the story would follow something along the lines of Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galactica, where the main stories of the chapters/episodes would be about life on the ship and interactions of the crew, but there's always a central, driving objective for the overall story (finding Earth in the case of BG, capturing the enemy ship in yours). So you'll probably have to flesh out stories among the crew if you want to give the story depth and purpose beyond just a pursuit of the overall goal.

Being cut off from their superiors does give you the opportunity to demonstrate each character's strengths when they don't have a lifeline and lets you show the reader why each character is suited (or unsuited) to their role.

Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're planning, but that's what it sounds like to me. I really like episodic stories with a large, overarching plot that ties the series together, so I think such a story could really work out well.

Yeah, that could definitely be what I go for with this. It would probably be the best course of action if I stick with this idea for the plot. I've been fleshing out the characters first and foremost anyway.

Thanks for your input! I'll keep it in mind and see if I can come up with ideas to support it (I have a few scenarios to scatter over the course of the plot anyway, and that's a matter of figuring out the timing as they're all pretty major events).

Do you want it to be episodic? If not then this can't really be done. Even then, you're going to need to come up with ideas for conflicts. If the protagonists are spending the entire time chasing the antagonists without interacting with them you may run out of ideas pretty fast.

Also, you'd probably be better off if you came up with a few micro-conclusions to give a better structure to the overall plot, though the current plot as you have presented it doesn't seem to allow for this.

 

[Imthatguy]

Hate to say it bro but Robert Heinlein beat you to that plot with Starship Troopers. You could still make it work but that particular plot is played out so hard.

 

[Joccaren]

I'd look to the BSG new series, Farscape Series and other series for inspiration.

BSG new series tends to have less in the way of fighting the Cylons, and more in the way of what occurs with the crew, and struggles they face. Elections of leaders [Non applicable here], fuel shortages, water shortages, Constant attacks every hour that keep them awake so long they can't last much longer, and need to find a solution, the discovery that Cylons are on the Battlestar and numerous other subplots come up. If you make the series entirely about chasing an unarmed ship, with no side stories, and no reason for it to go on for long, its not going to go on for long.
Farscape I went with for other ideas that could be had with run ins in unknown space. If you're keeping this in known space, there's not a lot of reason for this to last more than... 5 comics? Chase them, call help and figure out a plan, corner and capture, trials/executions, conclusion. Finding some excuse for the ship to be alone in this fight, except when you want to introduce new circumstances involving other crews [Which can be done well, see the Pegasus ark of BSG] is necessary, otherwise if it really was that important that a battleship is chasing these people rather than fighting the enemy battleships, these guys must be massive VIP status, and a fleet would be used to corner them.

Another thing you could do, also taken from BSG, is show the crew on the alien vessel in some comics. Double your number of potential stories by focusing on what happens to them too, give them some character. May also make for some interesting scenarios later down the line, and a more interesting conclusion.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I'm not sure that the plot is enough to carry on for very long though.

Now I don't really see how this is a problem. I think one of the worst things that can happen in a story is for someone to attempt to stretch it out as far as it can go with a bunch of bullshit. There are enough long comics, shows, anime, etc, and there really need to be more simple self-contained stories.

Just some examples, Prison Break should have ended after the first season when they broke out of prison, Bleach should have ended when they saved Rukia, DBZ should have ended after Goku defeated Freeza, etc.

Not every story is meant to continue forever, and it's really annoying when what should be a short and simple story gets stretched out into a bloated mess. I say if you want to tell the story of one ship chasing another ship just write it without worrying how long it is and just naturally allow it to progress until it organically finishes.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Sorry, but the brony in me laughed at that thread title.

OT:Sounds like if you do it well it'll be good. It does sound very generic though, and the names need a LOT more thought put into them. But really, that's all I have to say, I say go ahead with it. But first change the names and add something new to the plot.

 

[senordesol]

Any particular theme you're getting at with this story? Is Captain Cadwallader's plight supposed to make me feel something? Is there a particular reason the navy is sending something as big as a battleship on a kill/capture mission (better suited to a frigate or stealth vessel methinks [but such are minor details])

If the alien Captain of the smuggler vessel has no particular stake in the conflict why would he be willing to deal with a big ass warship hounding him for so long?

Also: alien war criminals? Do the bugs have some sort of strict moral code or something? Have they signed the Geneva Conventions in Spaaaaaace? Because it would seem to me that they'd just chill on their homeworld seeing as the war is over. What did they do, specifically? Why is Captain Cadwallader so obsessed with tracking them down so far removed from the fleet? What does her crew think about this and what internal conflicts shall arise?

I don't expect an answer for all of these questions (I understand that you want to keep some things close to the vest) but I will say this: this can easily become a 'lazy' story where characters do what they do because that's what they're supposed to do. It would be sad if Captain Cadwallader's sole motivation was 'because these are my orders which I will follow like a robot...beep.'

I'd love to hear more.

**Clicked the links... *shudders* is there a shortage of bras in Cadwaller's navy? I don't mind that your protag is a bit homely but goddamn, swing low sweet chariot.

 

[Scabadus]

I know the title says you're looking for plot feedback, bt I'll start wth feedback on the world and you can pick the bits you care about.

The ship: in most Sci-Fi settings Battleships are fairly large; there may be a few larger things (Titans, Dreadnaughts, Carriers, Super Star Destroyers... names don't matter and change in every setting) in the entire human navy, but unless you specifically structure your world differently a large engagement between two significant fleets might only have one or two battleships on either side supported by a multitude of other ships. Also, Battleships are (perhaps unsurprisingly) meant for Battle; while it wouldn't be impossible for one to be used as a scout, unless the admiral is incompetant that wouldn't be its usual role; a speciality crusier packed with sensory equipment or a tiny frigate almost undetectable under its stealth systems (*cough* Normandy *cough*) would be much better suited to the role. Remember: in space stealth systems don't have to be advanced active camoflage, the radar deflecting technology on modern stealth jets wold make a small ship almost totally invisible at short distances, nevermind space-age ranges. That doesn't actually have to change anything about the ship, it's just that calling it a frigate or cruiser might make more sense.

The aliens: looking at the picture they seem very Earth-anologue based: they have legs with knees, eyes, a mouth. This isn't nessicerily a bad thing, depending on your audience and story it can make them more relatable, but some people will want them to be totally alien; half liquid and half gas blobs they communicate telepathically; or a diamond skeleton encased in bio-conductive plasma, it's entire body acting as a neuronal mass instead of having a single brain.

The captain: a few things here: first off yeah the name's wierd but it worked in Warhammer 40K which just gave everyone rediculous names. Secondly, while her hair is an acceptable length for military personell, she'd have to have it pulled into a bun while on duty and, since she's the captin, very likely off-duty as well to keep up appearences. Maybe the military's different in the future and maybe she wears it like that because the just doesn't care or for any number of other character traits, but a bun is the modern norm. Third, the eye-patch: technololgy has advanced to interstellar travel, presmably with faster than light speeds, yet she's still wearing a patch? Your military hasn't developed a cybernetic replacement? Maybe she wears a patch for a reason, in theory the commander of a ship doesn't need fantastic eye-sight since everything will essentially be done via Microsoft Excel: Space Combat Edition, but I can't help but think an implant would both be appropriate for the setting and simply interesting. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, a simple metalic 'white' with a glowing (or not, up to you) 'pupil' would be fine. Additonally, she didn't seem to have a scar from whatever wound caused her to loose the eye. Something to bear in mind.

The plot: simply chasing a ship through space is boring, to liven it up the easiest way I would see is to have the ship long gone from whatever planet, station or outpost the main characters arrive at. The first couple of times the characters simply find out where it's gone next, but after it's long gone from there too they have to start digging deeper, finding out why it keeps moving, figure out it's pattern and actually intercept it. Given the hints you gave that the passangers arn't actually war criminals these investigations would provide a good jumping-off point to discovering the grand conspiracy behind why Ms Cadwallader is being told to hunt them down. On this note, the initial orders to chase the ship should be carefully considered: are your characters being asked to aprehend legitimatly suspected war criminals responsible for terrible acts, or is the evil empire using its military for unethical assassinations? And, just as importently, if they are taking the evil empire option do they go to the effort to disguise their orders in order to appear civil?

 

[saluraropicrusa]

I know the title says you're looking for plot feedback, bt I'll start wth feedback on the world and you can pick the bits you care about.

The ship: in most Sci-Fi settings Battleships are fairly large; there may be a few larger things (Titans, Dreadnaughts, Carriers, Super Star Destroyers... names don't matter and change in every setting) in the entire human navy, but unless you specifically structure your world differently a large engagement between two significant fleets might only have one or two battleships on either side supported by a multitude of other ships. Also, Battleships are (perhaps unsurprisingly) meant for Battle; while it wouldn't be impossible for one to be used as a scout, unless the admiral is incompetant that wouldn't be its usual role; a speciality crusier packed with sensory equipment or a tiny frigate almost undetectable under its stealth systems (*cough* Normandy *cough*) would be much better suited to the role. Remember: in space stealth systems don't have to be advanced active camoflage, the radar deflecting technology on modern stealth jets wold make a small ship almost totally invisible at short distances, nevermind space-age ranges. That doesn't actually have to change anything about the ship, it's just that calling it a frigate or cruiser might make more sense.

The aliens: looking at the picture they seem very Earth-anologue based: they have legs with knees, eyes, a mouth. This isn't nessicerily a bad thing, depending on your audience and story it can make them more relatable, but some people will want them to be totally alien; half liquid and half gas blobs they communicate telepathically; or a diamond skeleton encased in bio-conductive plasma, it's entire body acting as a neuronal mass instead of having a single brain.

The captain: a few things here: first off yeah the name's wierd but it worked in Warhammer 40K which just gave everyone rediculous names. Secondly, while her hair is an acceptable length for military personell, she'd have to have it pulled into a bun while on duty and, since she's the captin, very likely off-duty as well to keep up appearences. Maybe the military's different in the future and maybe she wears it like that because the just doesn't care or for any number of other character traits, but a bun is the modern norm. Third, the eye-patch: technololgy has advanced to interstellar travel, presmably with faster than light speeds, yet she's still wearing a patch? Your military hasn't developed a cybernetic replacement? Maybe she wears a patch for a reason, in theory the commander of a ship doesn't need fantastic eye-sight since everything will essentially be done via Microsoft Excel: Space Combat Edition, but I can't help but think an implant would both be appropriate for the setting and simply interesting. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, a simple metalic 'white' with a glowing (or not, up to you) 'pupil' would be fine. Additonally, she didn't seem to have a scar from whatever wound caused her to loose the eye. Something to bear in mind.

The plot: simply chasing a ship through space is boring, to liven it up the easiest way I would see is to have the ship long gone from whatever planet, station or outpost the main characters arrive at. The first couple of times the characters simply find out where it's gone next, but after it's long gone from there too they have to start digging deeper, finding out why it keeps moving, figure out it's pattern and actually intercept it. Given the hints you gave that the passangers arn't actually war criminals these investigations would provide a good jumping-off point to discovering the grand conspiracy behind why Ms Cadwallader is being told to hunt them down. On this note, the initial orders to chase the ship should be carefully considered: are your characters being asked to aprehend legitimatly suspected war criminals responsible for terrible acts, or is the evil empire using its military for unethical assassinations? And, just as importently, if they are taking the evil empire option do they go to the effort to disguise their orders in order to appear civil?

First off, I want to thank everyone for their input and ideas. This is certainly going to help (especially those of you asking questions, even if I don't answer them here).

Okay, I suppose battleship isn't the right term. It was what first came to mind when I thought of the ship but, yeah, it would have to be smaller. Basically it's not as big as a battleship, but big enough to fit a few small fighter ships (for dogfights and such).

The aliens do need to be, in some way, relatable. This being because the way I want to show it is that no one side is good or evil. It's all shades of gray and people/aliens not communicating well enough to avoid conflict. That being said, the design provided is by no means final.

As far as Winnie's name goes... there are plenty of people in the real world with strange or silly names. Just because it's not appealing doesn't mean it's wrong in any way. I got the surname from a name database--supposedly, it's Welsh, and Winnie was born and raised in Wales.

Her hair would probably normally be in a bun. I do usually draw it in a ponytail though. As for her eye-patch, no, she can't get an implant. This is actually an important part of her character: her eye socket is home to an alien bacteria that has essentially replaced her eye and attached itself to her optic nerve. She can see through it, but in a different way than with her good eye, and she normally keeps the patch on, mostly for appearance.

I'm not sure that the plot is enough to carry on for very long though.

Now I don't really see how this is a problem. I think one of the worst things that can happen in a story is for someone to attempt to stretch it out as far as it can go with a bunch of bullshit. There are enough long comics, shows, anime, etc, and there really need to be more simple self-contained stories.

Just some examples, Prison Break should have ended after the first season when they broke out of prison, Bleach should have ended when they saved Rukia, DBZ should have ended after Goku defeated Freeza, etc.

Not every story is meant to continue forever, and it's really annoying when what should be a short and simple story gets stretched out into a bloated mess. I say if you want to tell the story of one ship chasing another ship just write it without worrying how long it is and just naturally allow it to progress until it organically finishes.

Oh, I understand this completely. "for very long" doesn't need to be "for chapters and chapters and chapters." I have yet to decide how long I actually want this to be.

 

[SckizoBoy]

snip

Hmmm... I'm rather iffy about the design of the Sipuncula, tbh, they just look like rather fat wetas without antennae.

Anyway, it could work, though you need enough countering motivations of crew members (as this is what's going to be the primary focus) and conflict to make it worthwhile, along with enough of a threat to the actual operation (whether from enemy action or internal treachery). In the former, attempt at blocking the smuggler's comms failed and now an enemy flotilla's onto you etc. In the latter, you could have sabotage and/or the ambitions of a superior (or staff-level equal) that rivals Winnie's which could have ramifications at the end or in subsequent follow ups to the story.

Now, from a technical point of view, the ship. You've designated her vessel as a 'battleship'. It's a debut performance for this character, I take it. If so, make the ship a frigate (more a nuance of being a small ship but with enough speed about it to give a good chase, and one decent whack from enemy fire equals bad news) and demote her to a lieutenant-commander (captain in the navy is equivalent to colonel in the army while lieutenant-commander equates to major, which is more fitting the scenario, so... you can contrive to promote her somehow). Failing that, you can introduce her as a superannuated officer brought out of retirement to bulk up the ranks of seemingly incompetent and superfluous officer corps. *shrug*

PM me if you want to talk shop some more, always interested in this type of fare.

BTW the core plotpoint of a ship chase is perfectly viable... just look at Flight of the Eisenstein (albeit being a WH40K book).

 

[malestrithe]

I'm not sure that the plot is enough to carry on for very long though. What I'm looking for is feedback and maybe a bit of brainstorming to help flesh out my ideas or decide on something new if they need to be scrapped. I can provide details as necessary--I know what I've written here leaves out a lot but I didn't want to ramble on too long.

So... yeah. Any feedback or constructive input is greatly appreciated.

It sounds to me like the story you want to tell and the story that wants to be told are two different things.

You want to tell a simple get the mark mission. This can work, but since it will be mostly a clash of personalities, you will need time to develop both the captain and the smuggler. There also needs to be some personal edge behind it. Why this target? What is so important about this one that going after is worth it? Jilted ex lover. Captain want to retire with high marks. Did he kill the Captain's former crew, fiance, family, sold her into slavery as a kid. Or, you know something. Basically explain why this particular target is the Captain's White Whale.

The story that wants to be told uses the capture the smuggler as a Macguffin for the bigger story. The smuggler has some damaging information about some senator back home and all the conflict centers around that. Or they both are captured by you main villain group and must escape.

Or pull a complete Voyager and send them off to the Delta Quadrant and they must find their way home.