Looking for swtors downfall

[Jesse Willadson]

Now I understand some of the hate swtor has. As a fan of the game I can admit that its pretty much wow in space with lazer swords (though I don't have a class with a lazer sword because I am not a tool haha) But there is this group of people that actively want it to fail. Every time good news comes out they always say its fleeting and won't last past a year and if bad news comes out they use it as proof that its failing.

Now I understand not liking a game, even pointing out its flaws, but this seems unnecessary.
There are peopling making a living off of the game. People that need to eat and pay rent.

Is there anyone in the camp that can explain why you want this to fail. Or anyone with an idea as to why?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/schadenfreude

I'm afraid it's not limited to TOR, either. It's just more of a perfect storm with TOR, because Bioware + Star Wars + MMO brings a lot of bitter milkshakes to the yard.

 

[Fappy]

A lot of people want it to fail since its failure would deliver a strong message to developers about what does and doesn't cut it for many gamers these days. I don't want people losing their jobs over it but I definitely don't want ToR to stagnate the genre further either.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

Because people get irrational and bitter when things don't go the way they want them to.

As for why they would them to fail, causing unemployment for many, beats me. Perhaps it would give them some sort of 'validation' of their viewpoint.

Or maybe it's just so they can gloat and say 'I told you so!'.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

A lot of people want it to fail since its failure would deliver a strong message to developers about what does and doesn't cut it for many gamers these days. I don't want people losing their jobs over it but I definitely don't want ToR to stagnate the genre further either.

Ironically, by introducing strong story elements and characterization to the genre, TOR did more to move it forward artistically than any contemporary I can think of. It just did nothing to move it forward mechanically, for which it has been remorselessly attacked.

 

[Fappy]

A lot of people want it to fail since its failure would deliver a strong message to developers about what does and doesn't cut it for many gamers these days. I don't want people losing their jobs over it but I definitely don't want ToR to stagnate the genre further either.

Ironically, by introducing strong story elements and characterization to the genre, TOR did more to move it forward artistically than any contemporary I can think of. It just did nothing to move it forward mechanically, for which it has been remorselessly attacked.

Yeah pretty much. I played to 50 and really enjoyed the Bounty Hunter story, but unlike many others the grind and staple MMO elements I grew to hate after years of WoW bled through the narrative for me and put a bad taste in my mouth when its all said and done. End game was painfully boring, offered nothing I hadn't seen before and the PvP was abysmal. Unfortunately the story elements did not mesh well with the archaic design chooses present in the game. I'd like to see the story aspect carried onto future MMO's but with a complimentary gameplay philosophy.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

I want it to fail just enough so that it goes free to play so I can play it. I don't care that it's a WoW clone or anything else, but I don't play games that get more expensive over time.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah pretty much. I played to 50 and really enjoyed the Bounty Hunter story, but unlike many others the grind and staple MMO elements I grew to hate after years of WoW bled through the narrative for me and put a bad taste in my mouth when its all said and done. End game was painfully boring, offered nothing I hadn't seen before and the PvP was abysmal. Unfortunately the story elements did not mesh well with the archaic design chooses present in the game. I'd like to see the story aspect carried onto future MMO's but with a complimentary gameplay philosophy.

Yeah, I can't defend the game mechanically. Every time I started to warm up to it, I'd faceplant on another tank/healer check and end up spewing hate at it for 5 minutes. I bought it expecting KOTOR-lite that I could play co-op with my girlfriend, and that's basically what I got. I enjoyed my Bounty Hunter and Consular, she enjoyed her Inquisitor and Smuggler, but there was definitely little to nothing there mechanically to maintain interest once the story content petered out, and the extremely linear zone progression and limited class selection aggressively discouraged heavy alting.

Not a bad MMO by any means, but a poor option as a "lifestyle MMO" for people looking to replace their WoW obsession.

 

[Thoric485]

I want it to fail, so publishers might finally be convinced that copying WoW is idiotic. I guess AoC, WAR, Rift wasn't proof enough, but a 200 million flop might do the trick.

And don't play the unemployment card. If anyone would be to blame for that, it won't be the people concerned for the MMO genre, but the fuckhead suits who masterminded this project.

 

[Fappy]

Yeah pretty much. I played to 50 and really enjoyed the Bounty Hunter story, but unlike many others the grind and staple MMO elements I grew to hate after years of WoW bled through the narrative for me and put a bad taste in my mouth when its all said and done. End game was painfully boring, offered nothing I hadn't seen before and the PvP was abysmal. Unfortunately the story elements did not mesh well with the archaic design chooses present in the game. I'd like to see the story aspect carried onto future MMO's but with a complimentary gameplay philosophy.

Yeah, I can't defend the game mechanically. Every time I started to warm up to it, I'd faceplant on another tank/healer check and end up spewing hate at it for 5 minutes. I bought it expecting KOTOR-lite that I could play co-op with my girlfriend, and that's basically what I got. I enjoyed my Bounty Hunter and Consular, she enjoyed her Inquisitor and Smuggler, but there was definitely little to nothing there mechanically to maintain interest once the story content petered out, and the extremely linear zone progression and limited class selection aggressively discouraged heavy alting.

Not a bad MMO by any means, but a poor option as a "lifestyle MMO" for people looking to replace their WoW obsession.

Remember that damning quote, "If you're not doing it like WoW you're doing it wrong?"

I have never understood why they thought they needed to copy/paste Blizzard's design philosophy. Wasn't one of the main demographics they were reaching out to WoW players who were tired of WoW and looking for something new? You'd think they'd try to craft a more unique experience if that were the case.

 

[Fappy]

Because it's not KOTOR 3, and they butchered the story of the first two KOTOR games in order to make it fit with their plans for an MMO.

Kind of like if the original Star Wars films were abandoned after Empire, then ret-conned for a TV series set 300 years after Han was frozen in carbonite.

As a fan of the Exile, the whole thing just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

And this.

They raped Revan and the Exile. There I said it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Remember that damning quote, "If you're not doing it like WoW you're doing it wrong?"

I have never understood why they thought they needed to copy/paste Blizzard's design philosophy. Wasn't one of the main demographics they were reaching out to WoW players who were tired of WoW and looking for something new? You'd think they'd try to craft a more unique experience if that were the case.

You wanna know something interesting? When TOR was first announced, there was a quote from one of the developers saying something along the lines of..."We don't want to be WoW. There's already a WoW, and they're pretty good at it.", and went on to describe in detail how they were going to carve their own niche. A year or so later, a big spread on the game came on in PC Gamer, blathering on about "WHY REINVENT THE WHEEL!" and "EMBRACING PROVEN FORMULAS". There was a bit about how your Jedi Tank would use the force to make a shield. I felt like throwing up.

So yeah, I'm guessing the "We don't want to be like WoW" didn't make it past the bean counters, who looked at a pie chart of WoW's industry dominance and sent the developers back to the drawing board. I'm not even ANTI WOW. I think WoW is an excellent game that did many things well. But I do think the scope of its success has had a painfully stagnating effect on the genre. It's sad that Ultima Online is still the most ambitious MMO ever made, 13 years later. The possibilities are SO endless for these games. We don't need to keep getting Everquest in a new hat over and over and over.

 

[Verzin]

Now I understand some of the hate swtor has. As a fan of the game I can admit that its pretty much wow in space with lazer swords (though I don't have a class with a lazer sword because I am not a tool haha) But there is this group of people that actively want it to fail. Every time good news comes out they always say its fleeting and won't last past a year and if bad news comes out they use it as proof that its failing.

Now I understand not liking a game, even pointing out its flaws, but this seems unnecessary.
There are peopling making a living off of the game. People that need to eat and pay rent.

Is there anyone in the camp that can explain why you want this to fail. Or anyone with an idea as to why?

I don't hate it exactly, but I was one of the people who followed it from the day it was announced.
I loved KOTOR I and II, but I was keeping my hopes in check because I knew it was an MMO.
Right up until the Devs started spouting the absolute lie that this would be KOTOR III and IV and would carry on the spirit of the original games and so on.

they LIED. They downright lied to their fan base to attract the fans of the original games.
The game is fun for a while, for me it was up till about level 32 (I have two 50s now). but when you're trying to solo, it gets boring. the MMO elements and the single player elements do not mesh. you either do EVERY SINGLE SIDE QUEST IN THE GAME, or you get underleveled. It is crazy grindy for the solo-players.

On top of that, and the cardinal sin for me, was the companions. They are cardboard. The most interesting thing from the original KOTOR games, and they essentially turned them into mute vanity pets. The game broke my heart. I wouldn't mind at all if it failed. The Devs lied.

I wouldn't mind seeing it fail, but I'm not out for its blood or anything. I just feel stupid and betrayed for thinking that it would be an reasonable substitute for a real KOTOR III.

Captcha "I can keep more with vanguard". WTF!?!!? these add captchas are ridiculous!!!

 

[Fappy]

Remember that damning quote, "If you're not doing it like WoW you're doing it wrong?"

I have never understood why they thought they needed to copy/paste Blizzard's design philosophy. Wasn't one of the main demographics they were reaching out to WoW players who were tired of WoW and looking for something new? You'd think they'd try to craft a more unique experience if that were the case.

You wanna know something interesting? When TOR was first announced, there was a quote from one of the developers saying something along the lines of..."We don't want to be WoW. There's already a WoW, and they're pretty good at it.", and went on to describe in detail how they were going to carve their own niche. A year or so later, a big spread on the game came on in PC Gamer, blathering on about "WHY REINVENT THE WHEEL!" and "EMBRACING PROVEN FORMULAS". There was a bit about how your Jedi Tank would use the force to make a shield. I felt like throwing up.

So yeah, I'm guessing the "We don't want to be like WoW" didn't make it past the bean counters, who looked at a pie chart of WoW's industry dominance and sent the developers back to the drawing board. I'm not even ANTI WOW. I think WoW is an excellent game that did many things well. But I do think the scope of its success has had a painfully stagnating effect on the genre. It's sad that Ultima Online is still the most ambitious MMO ever made, 13 years later. The possibilities are SO endless for these games. We don't need to keep getting Everquest in a new hat over and over and over.

The MMO genre has pretty much turned into what the Fantasy genre is to books and film. You can literally do ANYTHING with it but people can't seem to deviate from their How-To Tolkein handbooks. As afraid as I am for Bethesda's alleged TES MMO I hope they bring something new to the table. Most people don't hate MMO's because they are MMO's. They hate them because most of them all feel the same and play the same. We don't really need to reinvent the wheel as much as we need to modify it and maybe add some more wheels. ToR kind of just added gimpy little training wheels (story) onto the preexisting wheel.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The MMO genre has pretty much turned into the Fantasy genre. You can literally do ANYTHING with it but people can't seem to deviate from their How-To Tolkein handbooks. As afraid as I am for Bethesda's alleged TES MMO I hope they bring something new to the table. Most people don't hate MMO's because they are MMO's. They hate them because most of them all feel the same and play the same. We don't really need to reinvent the wheel as much as we need to modify it and maybe add some more wheels. ToR kind of just added gimpy little training wheels (story) onto the preexisting wheel.

Welllll...I really do think the storytelling brought a LOT to the table. It made an aggressively anachronistic, mechanically tepid game into a compelling experience UNTIL the story was exhausted. That's no small achievement.

And people hate MMO's for a great many reasons. Some people think they're digital crack and ruin lives. People have a lot of crazy ideas where those games are concerned.

 

[Fappy]

The MMO genre has pretty much turned into the Fantasy genre. You can literally do ANYTHING with it but people can't seem to deviate from their How-To Tolkein handbooks. As afraid as I am for Bethesda's alleged TES MMO I hope they bring something new to the table. Most people don't hate MMO's because they are MMO's. They hate them because most of them all feel the same and play the same. We don't really need to reinvent the wheel as much as we need to modify it and maybe add some more wheels. ToR kind of just added gimpy little training wheels (story) onto the preexisting wheel.

Welllll...I really do think the storytelling brought a LOT to the table. It made an aggressively anachronistic, mechanically tepid game into a compelling experience UNTIL the story was exhausted. That's no small achievement.

And people hate MMO's for a great many reasons. Some people think they're digital crack and ruin lives. People have a lot of crazy ideas where those games are concerned.

I think the analogy works if you consider all video games virtual drugs

I didn't mean to undersell the story aspect though. I just felt like its implementation was half-assed in a lot of ways and didn't mesh with the rest of the game. Seriously... what's so hard about making daily quests with stories that actually make sense for being repeatable? None of the daily quests that I can remember made any sense. The same guy apparently thought you were coming to arrest him everyday... apparently everyone in Star Wars suffers from memory loss.