Lord British Presents Shroud of the Avatar

Pyramid Head

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Jun 19, 2011
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Jorec said:
SonOfMethuselah said:
Because the last time he tried an MMO, it went extremely well. I know this is more his style than Tabula Rasa was, but you would think the man would try to reestablish his name with a smash-hit single-player title before jumping on the MMO bandwagon again, familiar territory or not. I for one have to see that he's still able to craft anything worth playing before I'll agree to sink time and money into an MMO he's designing, much less support one through Kickstarter.
Did you forget about Ultima Online? That game was pretty successful in it's time. I mean yeah Tabula Rasa wasn't great but I don't think he was the only factor in that game's demise. Granted I never followed the game that deeply so if he was the reason that game sank, let me know.

The man has shown he can make good games in the past, sans the one's that were marred by executive oversight.

Emi's right. In a lot of ways Ultima is to western RPGs what Final Fantasy is to JRPGs. Ultima also came first so we saw it die first. Die horribly. And we're seeing that happen with Final Fantasy now, mind you the fates were different. Like the fates of many long lived franchises the moment money making opportunities were seen the controlling company utterly rapes the franchise, destroying it's quality. The Ultima fate. The Final Fantasy fate is the games jumping the shark during the SNES era, relying on a gimmick and mostly old gameplay for the next game which still draws support but rapidly writing quality declines and ideas become more and more dumb before even diehard fans want it to die.

Oh right, the topic. While Lord British may have at one point been a legend, i don't see Shroud of the Avatar working. While Guild Wars II was an admirable effort i don't see Lord British dethroning World of Warcraft, i see Shroud of the Avatar meeting the same fate as Star Wars MMORPGs.
 

Sol_HSA

was gaming before you were born
Nov 25, 2008
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Bah. I was hoping he'd make a game for a change, instead of an mmo.
 

klaynexas3

My shoes hurt
Dec 30, 2009
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thebobmaster said:
Not only was he not the reason it failed, the game was actually doing pretty well. It was shut down by NCSoft to avoid giving him a windfall in stock options. In fact, his resignation letter was forged while he was on his trip up in space to promote the game. Needless to say, there was a lawsuit involved, with Garriott winning. http://www.gamespot.com/news/garriott-wins-28-million-in-ncsoft-suit-6271808
I thought you were being sarcastic the moment you said a trip to space. I'm really glad you posted the link, as it at least gives me some interest knowing that he did produce a decent MMO in the past.
 
Nov 28, 2007
10,686
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klaynexas3 said:
thebobmaster said:
Not only was he not the reason it failed, the game was actually doing pretty well. It was shut down by NCSoft to avoid giving him a windfall in stock options. In fact, his resignation letter was forged while he was on his trip up in space to promote the game. Needless to say, there was a lawsuit involved, with Garriott winning. http://www.gamespot.com/news/garriott-wins-28-million-in-ncsoft-suit-6271808
I thought you were being sarcastic the moment you said a trip to space. I'm really glad you posted the link, as it at least gives me some interest knowing that he did produce a decent MMO in the past.
Let's just say that the most creative minds tend to be a bit...eccentric.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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SonOfMethuselah said:
Because the last time he tried an MMO, it went extremely well. I know this is more his style than Tabula Rasa was, but you would think the man would try to reestablish his name with a smash-hit single-player title before jumping on the MMO bandwagon again, familiar territory or not. I for one have to see that he's still able to craft anything worth playing before I'll agree to sink time and money into an MMO he's designing, much less support one through Kickstarter.
I've had to put some things on hold due to putting some $$ in a few Kickstarters this month when I probably shouldn't have. This was one of them.

I'd personally like to see a return to single player RPGs myself, but I can see why Richard Garriot is going with an MMO. As I remember from way back in the day, he was always interested in the idea of virtual worlds, and trying to push the envelope of what technology could do forward, even if the results were mixed. Things like "Pagan" and "Ascension" being attempts to create a more gradually realistic enviroment in terms of movement and interaction, with the idea of a character being able to say play Hopscotch (Acension Movement Tutorial) being kind of the point, even if I, and others were not please with the results. I seem to remember Richard at one point mentioning how he planned for his games to go into VR early on, and as a result I can sort of see how he'd be interested in the idea of shared worlds like MMOs above and beyond wanting to make single player fare.

I'm sort of a Lord British fan, and absolutly worshipped the single player Ultima games for a long time (even if the last two were lacking IMO). He's got what support, and very limited funds I can contribute. To me the question is less whether he can create, and more on whether he's going to go off in wierd semi-experimental tangents that while interesting on a certain level don't lead to a very fun gameplay experience. For example I felt "Tabula Rasa" was pants as an MMO, and really not all that fun (it died, so apparently I'm not alone) but the big selling point, the idea of enemies attacking bases, taking them over, and then changing the enviroment all on their own, was very interesting, but at the end of the day I increasingly felt like I had little control over what was going on other than to maybe show up in the right place and generally kill things for a while and hope the invisible counter maybe allowed us to "win" not that it really mattered in the big picture. Truthfully I suspect this basic concept heavily inspired a lot of what you see going on in RIFT and even with WoW's experiments in "phasing" (Wrath Gate, etc...).

I think the problem won't be creativity, so much as Richard needing to realize that first and foremost he has to make things fun for the average user, and make it so they keep wanting to play, and then work his experimental mechanics and ideas around that. I mean as cool as it was to see what he did with "Ascension" to begin with was also (for it's time), it like Tabula Rasa wound up being not a lot of fun in the long term.

I'll also say that I think Richard needs to be a little less naive when it comes to human behavior. As nice as it is to envision a "Dreampark" type enviroment where everyone co-exists in, and contributes to the fantasy together, and even the bad guys are kind of fun to deal with when people play them, he needs to get that a lot of people are jerks and are going to derive enjoyment from messing with other players, and in a practical sense, a game without any real permanant penelties means that those harassing players will always have an advantage since everyone dropping what they are doing to try and stop them (if it's even possible) isn't condusive to the enviroment, since even in the best cases it simply becomes a game for the troublemakers to make everyone spend all their time reacting to them, rather than playing the game and doing whatever it is they want to do. UO wound up becoming a hellhole early on for this reason, and we're not just talking the PKers, but people doing crap like making characters called "Sir Lagsalot" running around dropping nested bags and backpacks full of trivial items on the ground specifically to create as much painful lag as they could for the rest of the players.... and so much paranoia everyone ran around spamming a hotkey for "guards" 24/7. :)

I guess the point of my rambling amounts to me hoping he's not only learned, but also puts together a good team, that happens to be more grounded in reality, that he's actually going to listen to. :)
 

SonOfMethuselah

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Oct 9, 2012
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Therumancer said:
SonOfMethuselah said:
Because the last time he tried an MMO, it went extremely well. I know this is more his style than Tabula Rasa was, but you would think the man would try to reestablish his name with a smash-hit single-player title before jumping on the MMO bandwagon again, familiar territory or not. I for one have to see that he's still able to craft anything worth playing before I'll agree to sink time and money into an MMO he's designing, much less support one through Kickstarter.
I've had to put some things on hold due to putting some $$ in a few Kickstarters this month when I probably shouldn't have. This was one of them.

I'd personally like to see a return to single player RPGs myself, but I can see why Richard Garriot is going with an MMO. As I remember from way back in the day, he was always interested in the idea of virtual worlds, and trying to push the envelope of what technology could do forward, even if the results were mixed. Things like "Pagan" and "Ascension" being attempts to create a more gradually realistic enviroment in terms of movement and interaction, with the idea of a character being able to say play Hopscotch (Acension Movement Tutorial) being kind of the point, even if I, and others were not please with the results. I seem to remember Richard at one point mentioning how he planned for his games to go into VR early on, and as a result I can sort of see how he'd be interested in the idea of shared worlds like MMOs above and beyond wanting to make single player fare.

I'm sort of a Lord British fan, and absolutly worshipped the single player Ultima games for a long time (even if the last two were lacking IMO). He's got what support, and very limited funds I can contribute. To me the question is less whether he can create, and more on whether he's going to go off in wierd semi-experimental tangents that while interesting on a certain level don't lead to a very fun gameplay experience. For example I felt "Tabula Rasa" was pants as an MMO, and really not all that fun (it died, so apparently I'm not alone) but the big selling point, the idea of enemies attacking bases, taking them over, and then changing the enviroment all on their own, was very interesting, but at the end of the day I increasingly felt like I had little control over what was going on other than to maybe show up in the right place and generally kill things for a while and hope the invisible counter maybe allowed us to "win" not that it really mattered in the big picture. Truthfully I suspect this basic concept heavily inspired a lot of what you see going on in RIFT and even with WoW's experiments in "phasing" (Wrath Gate, etc...).

I think the problem won't be creativity, so much as Richard needing to realize that first and foremost he has to make things fun for the average user, and make it so they keep wanting to play, and then work his experimental mechanics and ideas around that. I mean as cool as it was to see what he did with "Ascension" to begin with was also (for it's time), it like Tabula Rasa wound up being not a lot of fun in the long term.

I'll also say that I think Richard needs to be a little less naive when it comes to human behavior. As nice as it is to envision a "Dreampark" type enviroment where everyone co-exists in, and contributes to the fantasy together, and even the bad guys are kind of fun to deal with when people play them, he needs to get that a lot of people are jerks and are going to derive enjoyment from messing with other players, and in a practical sense, a game without any real permanant penelties means that those harassing players will always have an advantage since everyone dropping what they are doing to try and stop them (if it's even possible) isn't condusive to the enviroment, since even in the best cases it simply becomes a game for the troublemakers to make everyone spend all their time reacting to them, rather than playing the game and doing whatever it is they want to do. UO wound up becoming a hellhole early on for this reason, and we're not just talking the PKers, but people doing crap like making characters called "Sir Lagsalot" running around dropping nested bags and backpacks full of trivial items on the ground specifically to create as much painful lag as they could for the rest of the players.... and so much paranoia everyone ran around spamming a hotkey for "guards" 24/7. :)

I guess the point of my rambling amounts to me hoping he's not only learned, but also puts together a good team, that happens to be more grounded in reality, that he's actually going to listen to. :)
My only problem with that is suggesting that a man with an alter ego named 'Lord British' is likely to have any grounding in reality. I mean, I know the origin of the name and everything, but my God does it make him seem airy.
 

BloodRed Pixel

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Jul 16, 2009
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$10, which gives you a chance to support development in order to make up for all those Ultima games you pirated when you were a kid
this is the actual quote from the Kickstarter page - what an asshole!

anyway MMO = instand death
 

tautologico

e^(i * pi) + 1 = 0
Apr 5, 2010
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Genocidicles said:
To be honest I lost every ounce of interest at 'MMO'.
wombat_of_war said:
Genocidicles said:
To be honest I lost every ounce of interest at 'MMO'.
yeah they lost me at that as well. ah well, i hope its everything the supporters are looking for and that its a rousing success for them
Sol_HSA said:
Bah. I was hoping he'd make a game for a change, instead of an mmo.
Everyone talking about it being an MMO, but the project isn't described as such, and it seems Richard Garriot already said somewhere that the game will be playable as a single-player experience, although it is designed to be multiplayer. It's a bit nebulous and it does have MMO-like features, but RG himself doesn't call it an MMO. This is from the project FAQ on Kickstarter:
Will this be a MMO? Can I play with my friends?

Yes, you will be able to play with your friends! Multiplayer games encourage social bonds that go far beyond what can be accomplished in a solo player game. I remember the depth of these bonds in players who met in-game only to get married in real life, how people who died in the real world were deeply mourned and celebrated by their online friends whom they may never have met face to face. Though Shroud of the Avatar won't be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game. We will be describing this in more detail in our upcoming community blogs.
The focus seems to be more about playing with friends than playing with random strangers. I haven't backed yet, but I hope he clarifies exactly how it works in the next few days.
 

DoctorObviously

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May 22, 2009
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Wouldn't it be absolutely fucking hilarious if Spoony was the guy to go to Britannia Manor. I'd give the guy fifty dollars so he could go. Only $9950 left!